A Serious Discussion on a Serious Problem

[Final Master]

It has been brought up before and talked about in generals, but now the spam has grown serious. Not only did a single new account create about 20 new threads, but they were all sexually related, with images of nude women in the posts. This creates a serious problem as I am aware that 1) there are minors that not only come to this site but are also registered here and 2) this creates a serious bad image of us/the site/the game for this to continue on. There have, in the past, been links to pornographic sites and images, but fortunately they did not have images in the posts - that appears to no longer be the case.

There have been suggestions on possible steps to further eliminate this issue and as far as I am aware, none have been implemented yet. I understand the various reasons why they haven't, but now I believe it is time to instill more stringent measures for a user to post.

I believe that a very simple solution, especially as most mass spam threads/posts like the ones we get here are within minutes of each other, is to put a restricted posting timer when first registering. Something like you must wait an hour before posting after clicking on the link that is emailed to you. I'm not sure how hard that would be to do, but I think it would stop at least some of the issues we are having. If this is possible, I see no downside to this measure.

Other possible steps are to not let a user create a thread until they reach a small post count like 5 or 10 posts prior. This would force more sophisticated bots [which most people aren't interested in using] to spam us, and make new real users to integrate with existing conversations [thus also less repeat threads on subject c]. The only real downside I see to this is that bug reports might become slightly less reported. However, with the amount of users that do report bugs [and rereport, rerereport, ect], and the ease and speed to reach a small post number, this isn't that big of a problem.

Another possible measure is to disallow urls in posts until you reach a small post count [this really shouldn't be a problem as it generally is not done here by us unless it's linking to character dumps or having patches available; and the people that do this generally have more than 5 posts anyway].

Considering the vast majority of these spam threads are also using non [what text is this, latin?] characters, we could disallow characters that are not symbols and not characters that are the same as this. I'm not sure how hard it would be to do this, but that would stop all those squiggly line spam threads.

Please, we really need to do something to deter more than what we already are.

FM

[lukep]

I had a similar idea, but based the restriction on time, rather than posts. it went like this: Probationary period lasting from signup to 24-48 hours after your first post. The probationary period would restrict the account from posting anything other than text (eg, no urls, images, or attachments). This would give the moderators time to delete the posts (and accounts), while still giving (almost) full privileges to members who do not post or visit often. The advantage that this has over a post based restriction is that it would be easier for new members to post stacktraces/savefiles/links to their website etc... without needing to post many times beforehand, or needing to have a moderator intervene. Another advantage over a post based counter would be that a spambot could just overrun the restriction be posting 50 times in a minute (but that would require a more advanced bot, so may not be an issue)

[Canderel]

The idea that DG was throwing around is to only enable people who've actually logged on via the game. Then link te4.org and forum users.

This would absolutely cut every bot. Only disgruntled users are then remaining as possible spammers.

[Grey]

That introduces a huge problem for those who play offline or those who have trouble connecting to the online profile (a common issue for many).

Spam problems are frequent across many forums, and I'm sure there are more common methods of dealing with this.

[ghostbuster]

That introduces a huge problem for those who play offline or those who have trouble connecting to the online profile (a common issue for many).

Ditto for people that use a break to rapidly connect on the forum during work time...

[Canderel]

That introduces a huge problem for those who play offline or those who have trouble connecting to the online profile (a common issue for many).

It's not *live*... Once you're set up, they are separate. So we're only talking about new accounts, existing ones will be linked to players, people with different names on the forums and te4.org will just have to somehow link them (this is probably the trickiest part)... Probably all existing accounts will be OKed and just the ones with dubious posts/profiles will be removed after being contacted.

Spam problems are frequent across many forums, and I'm sure there are more common methods of dealing with this.

Problem with more common methods is, the bots get to know the more common methods.

Ditto for people that use a break to rapidly connect on the forum during work time...

well, again, only for new people, old people can just rapidly log in during work time.

[tiger_eye]

That introduces a huge problem for those who play offline or those who have trouble connecting to the online profile (a common issue for many).

Ditto for people that use a break to rapidly connect on the forum during work time...

Eh? Once a forum account is validated once from the in-game profile--if I understand the proposal correctly--then the forum account should behave as it does now and it won't be any slower or more difficult to use. I don't expect previously created forum accounts to be affected.

Also, I think the difficulty with connecting to the in-game online profile often has to do the with server being overwhelmed and/or being down from time to time. You only need to successfully log in once to validate your account, so this shouldn't be a particularly difficult barrier for people to overcome. That being said, I think a longer "timeout" time is probably needed when trying to connect to the server.

[Grey]

Some people just don't want their games connecting online at all, and have no interest in signing up for a te4 account. Should they be forbidden from the forums?

[Canderel]

Some people just don't want their games connecting online at all

Yes, we should add an option saying "never attempt to reach the server", I think this is a valid concern.

and have no interest in signing up for a te4 account

Ok, they don't want a te4.org account, but they want a forum account? That sounds like a troll. We could push IRC more for people with once off queries. The IRC channel is active enough that most people should get help almost as fast if not quicker than on the forums.

Should they be forbidden from the forums?

Not because of the above reasons, but it is suspicious if someone just wants to join the forum but doesn't want to become part of the community in any other way. And that's the point if they are a part of the community in any other fashion that are not phpbb (which 90% of forums on the web use and are easy targets for spamming), then they can get an account.

[Grey]

You presume someone a troll for wanting one form of community access without having to take part in another? How very judgemental! Seriously, a lot of people are not comfortable with games trying to force them to have online accounts, or having to sign up for features they don't want. Some people just aren't comfortable with technology. I believe there are other solutions that don't force people to act in ways they don't want.

[madmonk]

Let's put some perspective here so we are all on the same page.

The current settings actually trap 99% of all the spammers - effectively we trap all the bots.

The remainder that do get through are human beings creating the accounts. Once the account is created a bot then enters and sprays the boards...

It is for this reason that I believe we actually do not need to adjust our current registration settings.

What we have to do is to trap the spammers after they register but before they post.

So let's look at that:

I believe there are a number of objections to DG's proposal of linking the Wiki and Forum accounts which would have to be surmounted for this to be a viable proposal. Many of these issues have been mentioned here in this thread, but assuming that these can be surmounted it then becomes a question of how long it would take to implement. I don't have any idea perhaps someone might be able to indicate what is involved and how long it may take to do.

Assuming that DG's proposal cannot be implemented (for whatever reason) we could implement this: moderate the first few posts before allowing unrestricted access. The range is typically from 1 - 10 posts on most boards that do this.

What does this mean? What do we have to do?

We would have to activate the newly registered user group in the ACP (currently not used) but easily configured.
All new members join this group until they have posted however many times we deem appropriate...
All posts by the new member are moderated (again until the threshold is passed), this means a moderator would actually have to look at the posts and make a decision...
Once the threshold is passed the new member is moved to the Registered user group and they are allowed unrestricted access. This is automated...

So this is all very well but it poses a large administrative burden on the Mods and some extra work all round. Which means we would need volunteers to become moderators. Please be clear on this you would not have access to the ACP but you would have access to the moderators control panel to do any necessary work.

[Garumsh]

I don't really ever post, but I check the forums multiple times daily. I'd be happy to take over a portion of proposal by madmonk.

[tiger_eye]

That seems like the best option, madmonk, and I think some of the spam that makes it through does warrant that such a moderation period should be employed. Sign me up!

[Wombat]

Though I don't post much, I check the forums a few times a day, so I can help moderate too.

[Dwarf_Hammer]

I'm a mod at a similar forum, so I don't mind helping out.