[svn]Disabling Auto-assign talents at birth

[Avianpilot]

Sorry for the vague title, but the issue is longer than the field allows.

When disabling 'Auto-assign talents at birth', it also gets rid of talents that you cannot get back again. For example, I started a dwarven Temporal Warden with this setting disabled, and I didn't get Spacetime Tuning. That's more or less to be expected, but there's also no way to get that skill in normal play if you don't start with it.

Is this intended behavior? Maybe it is, since you can otherwise unassign your starting talents for the same effect and keep the special starting talents like Spacetime Tuning, but I wanted to bring it up in case it is not.

[Final Master]

I'm also interested in if the talents that you would otherwise manually unassign equal the same number of generic and class points as if you were to just use the auto-assign option.

[bricks]

Definitely not intended. Spacetime Tuning is a core mechanic. Same goes for Cut Alchemist Gem.

[magelike]

Sorry for the vague title, but the issue is longer than the field allows.

When disabling 'Auto-assign talents at birth', it also gets rid of talents that you cannot get back again. For example, I started a dwarven Temporal Warden with this setting disabled, and I didn't get Spacetime Tuning. That's more or less to be expected, but there's also no way to get that skill in normal play if you don't start with it.

Is this intended behavior? Maybe it is, since you can otherwise unassign your starting talents for the same effect and keep the special starting talents like Spacetime Tuning, but I wanted to bring it up in case it is not.

This is because that talent can be unlearned (though the game rightfully doesn't allow for it normally). Any talents that the player should not be able to unlearn need to have the no_unlearn_last variable set to true to prevent this from happening. I'm going to make reply to this post with a list of talents like Spacetime Tuning and Create Alchemist Gems. Fortunately, it'll be simple for DarkGod to fix. Thanks for reporting it.

I'm also interested in if the talents that you would otherwise manually unassign equal the same number of generic and class points as if you were to just use the auto-assign option.

Yes. You get a class point or generic point as appropriate for each talent that is unlearned. If for some reason a character started with 3 in an unlearnable generic talent, he'd have +3 generic points rather than +1. Edit: Looks like Sun Paladins do exactly that - they start with 3 in armour training. You won't be able to put those points back into it until your character meets the appropriate requirements, but that's the way it worked for anyone who manually removed points from armour training on a Sun Paladin.

[magelike]

I'm not completely familiar with every core talent (i.e. Spacetime Tuning) a player should be starting with, so please add to this list if you can think of any others. Below is a list of talents I found by searching for those that have the hide variable set to true, in addition to any talents that are part of a "-base" talent type (Refit Golem). These will need to have the no_unlearn_last variable set to true if the player is not intended to be able to unlearn them:

chronomancy/chronomancy.lua - Spacetime Tuning
techniques/archery.lua - Shoot - I think this was already fixed
techniques/combat-training.lua - Exotic Weapons Mastery
techniques/grappling.lua - Grappling Stance
techniques/pugilism.lua - Striking Stance
techniques/unarmed-training.lua - Empty Hand
spells/stone-alchemy.lua - Create Alchemist Gems
spells/golemancy.lua - Refit Golem

[magelike]

The above talents are fixed in the latest SVN.