I hate the new hate - SVN

[Rakshasa]

I was playing with the development version (SVN 1339) and I must say: I hate the new hate on kill. Playing the Cursed class with 0.0 hate is no fun. Bring back the hate on hit!

[benli]

Hate on hit was actually a bug. The intent of hate was to periodically run low or out of hate and have to fight your way back. That is essentially the curse of "Cursed". You have to constantly kill or you grow weak. With the bug, hate became almost irrelevant.

I haven't had a lot of time to test the new balance. I like it early on, but I haven't played too much mid to late game. I'm a little concerned about the new approach in places without too many monsters though. Seethe is now pretty much a requirement to make it through those.

I think the struggle to keep hate up is pretty important to the class. It just doesn't have the same "rush to kill" feel without it. Maybe scaling the hate you get back after a kill based on the toughness of the opponent? A bit like the new Unnatural Body regeneration. Or maybe I can boost seethe to give more hate, increase hate per kill for a while or give hate with each hit for a while?

[Repton]

What if you switch it back to hate-on-hit, but increase the decay?

Or make it decay exponentially, instead of linearly? (I'm assuming it's linear at the moment.. I haven't played many cursed) An exponential decay will mean you can have low levels of hate for longer periods.

I imagine a cursed character stomping through the dungeon on 10% hate, muttering angrily at the world, until he spies a new victim. He runs up, whacks it a few times to build up his anger, and then unleashes the big attacks

[edge2054]

Since this is getting brought up again.

I still like Hate when you take damage Benli.

Now that I've had a chance to play the class in a few different incarnations though I'd suggest 1 Hate on kill and .1 Hate per 10% of maximum life.

In other words if the player has 120 life and a single hit deals 12 damage he gains .1 Hate. If a second attack deals 36 damage he gains .3 Hate. Basically if the player is fighting creatures that are a reasonable challenge give him enough Hate to fuel his abilities but not enough to do a lot of damage with them.

[benli]

I had tried some code that delayed hate loss for a while and then adjusted hate loss as time passed, so I could put that back in. I had layed around with different forms of hate on hit, but I couldn't find a balance I liked. A very low hate per hit like you are suggesting edge may work.

Another idea that I had thought about was hate bonuses. Bonuses for multiple kills in a single turn, for powerful hits, attacking higher ranked or leveled creatures, etc. Its a bit more coding but achievement style approaches are often pretty fun. That would also allow hate per hit, but only against powerful foes.

[edge2054]

I like that idea too. But I can see how there would be a lot more coding involved.

[Rakshasa]

I'll happily test any changes
The Cursed is a lot funny with some hate to do his/her attacks. And I love the gloom.

Oh, btw what is supposed to be bigdamage (boss killer) attack of the Cursed? Both slash and frenzy looks kinda weak when compared to shield pummel + assault for example.

[Graziel]

Rampage + Brutality + High Hate + Dominate + Frenzy = boss killer
but dont forget potion of free action before rushing into boss and frenzy works best when weapon has + some damage(I use nature mostly due to poisoning : ) ) and one more thing... dont use Frenzy near slimes

Code: Select all

Feerg uses Frenzy.
Feerg hits slimy ooze for    193.19 physical damage   .
Slimy ooze is split in two!
Feerg hits slimy ooze for    4.00 lightning damage   .
Feerg hits spitting spider for    191.27 physical damage   .
Feerg hits spitting spider for    4.00 lightning damage   .
Feerg hits slimy ooze for    188.39 physical damage   .
Slimy ooze is split in two!
Feerg hits slimy ooze for    4.00 lightning damage   .
Feerg hits slimy ooze for    170.12 physical damage   .
Slimy ooze is split in two!
Feerg hits slimy ooze for    4.00 lightning damage   .
Slimy ooze hits Feerg for    84.84 nature damage   .
Feerg slows down.
Feerg hits slimy ooze for    2.80 darkness damage   .
Feerg killed slimy ooze!
Spitting spider hits Feerg for    68.88 nature damage   .
Feerg hits spitting spider for    2.80 darkness damage   .
Slimy ooze hits Feerg for    87.36 nature damage   .
Feerg slows down.
Feerg hits slimy ooze for    2.80 darkness damage   .
Slimy ooze hits Feerg for    83.16 nature damage   .
Slimy ooze killed Feerg!

[benli]

With the latest fixes, I improved Dominate and Slash a bit as I found I would skip those and go straight for frenzy. Dominate doesn't mention it but it doesn't add damage, it multiplies all damage so coupled with other skills it can hit pretty hard for a few rounds. Reckless Charge can give you a few hard hits if you run past your target (or knock them back some). For bosses, I like to have a wimpy creature in sight of Preternatural Senses (behind a wall) that I can Blindside as a quick phase door out of danger. A high torment can also soften them up a little.

I also reduced the hate loss a bit and added some bonuses for getting extra hate (take a hard hit, give a hard hit, come close to death, kill an elite, boss or experienced opponent).

Rakasha, I generally pass code to DG as diffs (not via svn). If you'd like me to send you the files I can, or you can wait until DG applies them. I think a new release is supposed to come out this weekend.

[Graziel]

just a side note - could you change "Preternatural senses" to some more human word? like "Predatory" or just "Extended" i had to google what "Preternatural" means and its hard to say : P

[Repton]

It's not just a game — it's an education!

[Graziel]

Well since i really cant wait with more fun with Cursed class i got one gem here:

Code: Select all

[LOG]	Daar performs a critical stike!
[PROJECTOR] starting dam	415.96416
[PROJECTOR] after difficulty dam	415.96416
[PROJECTOR] res	12.603889165173	0.87396110834827	 on dam	811.54940387328
[PROJECTOR] final dam	709.26261648847
[LOG]	Daar hits The Master for #aaaaaa#709.26 physical damage#LAST#.