Cornac Adventurers start w/ 3 instead of 4 Generic Points...

[Cor'e =)]

The impact is clear, especially in early game, other races are not forced to put points into their Race Category (as mentioned above), so that gives all Races 4 Generic points to start in any 8 or less Categories they choose... However, Cornacs get to open a Category (now they're as even as can be Class Points or Category Points), but then they only start with 3 Generic Points not 4, that is clearly unbalanced. As a ToME player, that unfairness and my desire to enjoy playing & winning simply means the Cornac Race is kinda a waste of time, i do *not* think this Cornac deficit was intended, but rather overlooked.

[Radon26]

well, every now and then i see something like "if you dunno what to do with category points, open an inscription slot"
which is basically and extra talent, which you can swap for a better one, possibly quite powerful.
no need to spend generics into it.

just saying.

[64legos]

I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but you are overreacting. You are really overemphasizing the value of a single generic point.
The fact that you are calling cornacs underpowered to other races because of one generic point is making it hard to take you seriously.

In fact, lets ignore adventures for a moment and look at other classes.

First, lets look at Wyrmic and Rogue. Wyrmic starts with 3 class points. Rogue start with 6 class points. Going by your logic, this would mean that Wyrmic is underpowered compared to Rogue. However, this is not the case.

You said earlier that one generic point matters in the early game. The problem with this argument however, is that Adventurers are a class that focuses around mid game, where the talents they chose start to interact together. The extra generic point won't matter here because most of an adventurers core talents are class talents, not generic talents.

Finally, lets look at what cornacs get over other classes, a category point. This category point can be used to unlock one of many different categories. This lets cornacs make very different builds that other classes. The keyword here being "different," not "underpowered."

tl;dr There is much more about building adventures than 1 generic point.

[Radon26]

Finally, lets look at what cornacs get over other classes, a category point. This category point can be used to unlock one of many different categories.

a new category you cant really make a use early one, because you get 1 less generic.
even if you only go 1 point in each talent, you will still have to give up some talents, at least untill lvl 10, when you get a new category to spend anyway.

This lets cornacs make very different builds than other classes. The keyword here being "different," not "underpowered."

ofc you wouldn't use "underpowered". That would be counter productive to what you are going for.

...

going back to first point, as i pointed out already, you can get additional inscription slot early.

[Steven Aus]

Talking in percentage differences, 3 instead of 4 is 25% less, which is quite a bit. It's a bit like saying for an unbalanced class to gain or lose 1 of their points in any area that does not correct the existing imbalance. It DOES matter, and it IS a balance issue.

[Radon26]

you can spend a generic into a talent... or you can spend category into an inscription... which also is a talent.
talent for talent, just a different one. seems balanced to me.

sure i am not a roguleike-madness all class/race winner, but since you didn't use any practical examples, i don't need to get theoretical either.

[Micbran]

I feel like an extra category point far outweighs an extra generic, as Radon26 said.

[jenx]

I feel like an extra category point far outweighs an extra generic, as Radon26 said.

+1

[Steven Aus]

Yes, I would agree, because a category point can be used for a class school, generic school, or an inscription slot.

[Cor'e =)]

Thanks for the discussion on this issue, i read many differing views, i ran into a bug in phpBB and could not get logged in, it got fixed by an amazingly understanding admin, now back to point. I need to dismiss all talk about Category points, as they are currently fair imho, the "Race" tree for Cornacs is "any" tree, that's their special thing. That said, once a Cornac chooses a "tree" (or inscription slot as mentioned) they are at an even stance as any other race, except that they are one less Generic Point. !

I don't think being able to pick a category is worth a generic point, i see it as that's their "Race" specialty, every other Race gets something, and that's what i think Carnacs get, for better or worse, the Generic Point loss is imho a "bug" and so this is a bug report, i hope it gets resolved rather than just dismissed. As i said at the start, i really enjoy playing Adventurer Class with any race.

[HammyHamster]

Well, there's also the xp penalty to consider. Cornac don't have one.

There's a big difference on normal between a 40% and 0 %, when considering how much extra grind is needed for 50...on normal, a 40% may require 10 or so Farportals in addition to everything else - if you want a lvl 50 final end-boss fight.

However, while I think it significantly impacts normal, it's not so important at the higher difficulties where there are many rares and bosses to give extra xp.



Side Note:

(imho) Shalore should really be around ~45+% penalty. Their abilities are arguably the strongest in the game and usually first pick for most class min-max building, especially at higher difficulties.