Arrows and walls - bug or feature ?

[overtrix]

On the quest with the Tempest bloke, my character was standing next to a wall in which there was a Xorn (diagonally beside) and shot at it - suddenly "low health". Blimey, that's some tough Xorn - no, the messages said that she shot herself. So thinking it was some kind of self-targetting glitch, very carefully targetted the Xorn and fired again ... dead.

May well have been the first such condition in the game, was mostly forests up to then. Did it bounce back from the wall - fair enough in principle, but a showstopper in practice - or is it simply a bug ? ... the Xorn was 'south-east' of the character, if that's any help tracking a stray "-1" or something.

[yufra]

This definitely sounds like a bug. Can you draw the situation for us? For example, was it:

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#@.
##X

[overtrix]

Exactly so, except the 'midwestern' grid was normal floor. Glad you didn't say "oh yes, we've given Xs reflection" - that would be hard Mr Frodo, right hard

Jotted down two notes on the preparatory dialog ...

... in the context "went rogue" rather than "has gone rogue"

... and "removal of the cloud" (is currently a typo, "culod" or something like that)

Tried to get back there this evening but was wiped out unceremoniously in town - had been neglecting Truth No. 1 about the life-extending function of HP.

[overtrix]

Oops, is a more general thing - happened again in Moria, this time with spells - at least Strike and Flame, wasn't going to experiment too much because he's quite a high % critical.

Is nothing to do with the Xorn, was just the reason for firing into a wall in the first place - and doesn't have to be diagonal. If you're standing next to a wall and you send arrow, strike, flame at it (presumably any projectile) it comes right back at you. Spell shaping doesn't save you. The spell has its normal effect - e.g. a big hit from Flame and then the burning.

Thinking back, it must be a subset of wall types (are they undiggable ones ?) because he was toasting banshees in Tol Falas okay. No weird effect with ball spells - he's a pyromaniac, so just as well - didn't check with a beam.

[yufra]

The effect will be more general since it affects all projectiles, with Strike and Flame being two spells that create projectiles. The issue is this: projectiles should not be able to enter walls. This is the same reason that regular melee attacks cannot hit monsters in walls, but I admit too many other talents can so this effect is broken. I am talking with DG about what the behavior should actually be, and you are more than welcome to chime in. Let us consider three cases, Shoot, Flame and Fireflash. Let us assume you are right up against the wall.

1. Shoot:[\B] The projectile should hit the wall and... well ricocheting back isn't out of the question I guess. More importantly the targeting mechanism should not allow you to select the banshee/xorn as a target. Indeed if you notice the wall tile appears red and which tells you the projectile will not hit that tile, but for some reason it allows to shoot it anyway (that is ok for some talents, but Shoot for some reason requires a valid target).
2. Flame:[\B] The projectile once again immediately hits the wall, and I can see the player taking damage.
3. Fireflash"[\B] The projectile has to explode in the player's tile, it just makes sense that way.

In summary, I think that it is the targeting and other talents that need to be brought in line with the current projectile behavior, and not the other way around. This is not official (DG hasn't cleared it) and open for debate. Thanks for finding the issue, too!

[overtrix]

Just lost another mage to his Flame, chucked it out of habit at a Xaren in Carn Dum. It's hard to imagine not whacking a wall at some stage either accidentally on purpose or as the result of an autotarget glitch, then especially if it's critical you're dead. I'm fine with it having no effect, though when they are in the wall their offense should then be reduced - and okay with a bit of splash damage, let yourself get "down to one star" and you know you're living on borrowed time anyway - but this isn't very good. One way of getting me to my cot, mind.

[Grey]

Any ricochet or splashback damage shouldn't be as severe as a normal hit. It's silly to imagine a mage hitting itself with a fireball. It's even silver for an arrow to bounce straight backwards with full force. I also worry about Arcane Blades hurting themselves with a melee attack in this way...

I say no effect if mistargeted. There's little logical reasoning behind self target, and even less gameplay justification.

[yufra]

Any ricochet or splashback damage shouldn't be as severe as a normal hit. It's silly to imagine a mage hitting itself with a fireball. It's even silver for an arrow to bounce straight backwards with full force. I also worry about Arcane Blades hurting themselves with a melee attack in this way...

I say no effect if mistargeted. There's little logical reasoning behind self target, and even less gameplay justification.

Just to be clear, the current "ricochet" effect was not present before I refactored the targeting/projectile code and is probably going to disappear as soon as I/DG figure out how to remove it. I've been a bit to busy to code recently, though.