Report from the Bowladies of Lorien (12b)

Where bugs go to lie down and rest

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overtrix
Archmage
Posts: 412
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2003 9:33 am
Location: Les Corbières sauvages

Report from the Bowladies of Lorien (12b)

#1 Post by overtrix »

Okay it's time to get back to RL. This is an awesome piece of software, huge congrats - it's the first time I've been tempted away from ASCII and there'll be no going back. So very glad that it's turned out well from all the dedication and never being happy to let ToME stay in one comfy place for long.

Minor things first, then a couple of weird ones.

1. Lying is right, as foul as it looks - don't let anyone tell you it should be lain, laid, laying, layed ...

2. When the killer blow has a side-effect, this is reported after the main event which looks odd.
"Fred kills Harry !" - "Harry is stunned !" (yes indeed) or "Harry resists !" (way to go, Harry) :)

3. When items are wielded in a slotted belt and the belt is taken off or swopped, the items are simply lost. This could have cruel consequences. It might be a bit kind to have them remain in the careless character's inventory, but think they should at least drop to the ground.

4. Scattershot's bunker-busting capability is not a bug, it's a feature ! ... call it rock splinters from the mighty impact.

5. The double-artifact thing isn't just confined to effects of stores. Found Sting in a room in the Vor Pride, left it at 'home' (another feature, though carrying capacity becomes so massive that's moot, is more a Mathom House really) and then found another Sting in the Vor Armoury.

6. ... where only the Athame was (if this is a plot twist ignore me, was square-by-square searched)

7. The description of Gloves of Criticals sounds as though it only affects spells, so for a long time didn't bother with the outrageous ones which were found - grr.

8. While using a hymn (detection, as a reward, just to have the black swirly effect really) it deactivated and then immediately re-activated on going between the two Level-Up windows. Can't imagine this has any game effect, just weirdness.

9. Okay, the weird one - could be symptom of something tricky - Emmanuelle's immediate predecessor died in the strangest way. She had gone briefly to the slime pits quite early on, and immediately came back out. When later on the level with the slime-pit stairs, the boss was beside them (quite far away) and being attacked by his own people - but also there were messages that my character was involved in the battle, folk taking some tiny darkness damage from the hymn. Got a message the boss was dead, went across and there was nobody there, just his loot. Returned there a third time, again there was fighting by the slime-pit stairs involving my character - who was actually ambling casually along a path with full health, and then suddenly died. It's as though a copy of the character was left at the slime-pit stairs, and indeed the death report said she was e.g. Level 37 (which she would have been the first time) rather than Level 43 (which she now was). Presumably she just stood there doing nothing (having no AI) and until my 'real' character entered the level, this was irrelevant.

10. Layout suggestion. Many folk have widescreen monitors, so vertical space is at a premium - better might be to have information strips at each side. The talents one would be okay, names aren't that long, but what about messages ? ... if this was on the left side, a nice code challenge would be that it's narrow by default "Fred hits the Or", but on mouseover expands to show the full story "Fred hits the Orc Pyromancer for 654.12 physical damage". Okay this would be awkward for starter-outers, or when the list has unscrolled itself - maybe a draggable frame that side for more casual reading ?

10b. ... or make Mt Doom run left to right :P

Seriously, there are so very few issues, sometimes trivially odd behaviour happens (e.g. saying that a category is now available for use, rather than a talent) but saving and restarting always clears such. Go back and read the praisey bit at the start again, it's 100% sincere, ToME 4 already is the state of this art. Speaking of art, the folk who do those tiles need big fat mithril medals.

overtrix
Archmage
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Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2003 9:33 am
Location: Les Corbières sauvages

Re: Report from the Bowladies of Lorien (12b)

#2 Post by overtrix »

p.s. the auto-targetting thing - though it doesn't use a turn, so is pesky more than dangerous. If you look around to see who's who and then start an action, the suggested target can be behind a terrain feature or even in a vault. It also happens a lot with e.g. snakes in the old forest, where they often duck out of the firing line but remain chosen as the default target.

p.p.s. ... Gandalf style :)

An advantage of having the talents in a list down the right margin would be that there's no need for Page-Up / Page-Down to access the full list, since all would surely fit. A few times got into quite bad trouble from pressing up- or down-arrows and so moving-in-the-game, instead of scrolling-in-my-study. Imagine you don't have full stun immunity and are stalking a cryomancer, suddenly you move one square downwards instead of choosing a talent ... CRACK-pfft-swoosh-zwoop-ktshh "you die, which in roguelikes is usually permanent".

Those sudden sound effects are amazing though will, sooner or later, claim a life at 3 a.m. one winter night ... but hey leave them in, just keep the liability insurance up to spec.

greycat
Sher'Tul
Posts: 1396
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 11:51 pm

Re: Report from the Bowladies of Lorien (12b)

#3 Post by greycat »

overtrix wrote: 1. Lying is right, as foul as it looks - don't let anyone tell you it should be lain, laid, laying, layed ...
Depends on the context, obviously. There are three separate English verbs: lie, lie (the other one) and lay. They have irregular conjugations, which leads to all sorts of confusion even among native English speakers.

lie - intransitive verb (does NOT take an object) - to tell an untruth
  • Present: "Real men do not lie."
  • Present continuous: "I am not lying."
  • Present perfect: "I have never lied about ToME."
  • Past: "I lied about my age."
  • etc.
That one's easy! The other one's not:

lie - intransitive verb - to rest horizontally
  • Present: "The truth lies somewhere in between."
  • Present continuous: "I'm lying on the couch."
  • Present perfect: "I've lain here for hours."
  • Past: "Two hours ago, I lay down for nap."
Note the differences. Note also that the past tense of "to lie" (this one, not the other one) is the same as the present tense of a totally different word! Very confusing! Now it gets even more fun:

lay - transitive verb (requires an object) - to place something on a flat surface
  • Present: "Lay your burden down."
  • Present continuous: "I'm laying the bricks for this wall."
  • Present perfect: "I've laid hundred of bricks so far."
  • Past: "I laid 300 bricks yesterday alone."
So we have "I have lain" and "I have laid", and both are correct, but they are entirely different words.

And that's just modern English. There is one special case that really requires mention here, involving more archaic English:

Now I lay me down to sleep....

Practically everyone has heard this rhyme/prayer. Few people know how the grammar works. This is using the transitive verb "to lay", and its object is "me". This is archaic/poetic usage. The normal modern usage would be "Now I lay myself down to sleep", but that doesn't scan. A more straightforward translation would be "Now I lie down to sleep", but that doesn't scan either. (One that does scan and is correct would be "Now I'm lying down to sleep", but that lacks aesthetics.) So, this is another source of confusion between "lie" and "lay". I have a personal theory that this rhyme alone is responsible for well over half the people who mix up these words.
8. While using a hymn (detection, as a reward, just to have the black swirly effect really) it deactivated and then immediately re-activated on going between the two Level-Up windows. Can't imagine this has any game effect, just weirdness.
Intentional. The effectiveness of a sustained talent (including hymns/chants but also several others) depends on the effective talent level and, in many cases, on some of your stats. In older betas, the sustained talent was not reinvoked on level-up, so it continued at its old level of effectiveness until the player got around to recycling it. In recent betas, this recycling is done automatically, so you get the more powerful version.

Feanor.81
Wyrmic
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:52 pm
Location: Poggibonsi (Siena), Italy

Re: Report from the Bowladies of Lorien (12b)

#4 Post by Feanor.81 »

Now, that's quite a lesson...
No one will ever say me again "You should be studying instead of playing videogames!" :mrgreen:
Don't fear the eyes of the Dark Lord / Morgoth I cry
All hope is gone, but I swear revenge / Hear my oath
I will take part in your damned fate

overtrix
Archmage
Posts: 412
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2003 9:33 am
Location: Les Corbières sauvages

Re: Report from the Bowladies of Lorien (12b)

#5 Post by overtrix »

I only got as far as deciding that as an intransitive verb we're dealing with 'to lie' rather than 'to lay'. Trying to explain the whole mess to German schoolkids is a losing proposition, now just tell them to take a guess and move on - getting them not to start every sentence relating to the past with "I have..." is where the big strides come :)

About the targetting problem, I take it all back - took Emmanuelle for a wander around the East, mistress of all she surveyed, to look at some of the vaults and storerooms which were skipped. So there's this red 'o' half a mile away and she decides to watch him go "pfft" with a scattershot (love how you see the arrow underway !) ... ctrl-1, enter - killed herself with a critical hit ... the targetting had chosen an orc inside the room she was sheltering against, waah.

(BTW couldn't get past the ring-selection with Limmir in his new location, it listed the ring but wouldn't accept a choice - removed the the ring-checking in LUA and it worked then - maybe a typo in there but weird because it was working in Bree with same code ? ... and it was a plain vanilla mithril ring)

In memoriam then - tidied up as befits her courage, de-spoiled and with apologies for this diversion in 'bugs' - her ladyship from just a little while before ...

Code: Select all

Sex   : Female     Level : 48         STR: 54     WIL: 50
Race  : Noldor     Exp   : 78%        DEX: 90     CUN: 69
Class : Archer     Gold  : 371.79     MAG: 36     CON: 83

Attack: 141  -  Damage: 49  -  APR: 0  -  Crit: 38%  -  Speed: 0.60
Difficulty: Normal  -  Life: 1480/1480  -  Encumbrance: 63.99/175
Stamina: 361/361  -  Mana: 527/542  -  Negative: 0/191
                                
Fatigue: -7%  -  Armor: 39  -  Defense: 49  -  Ranged Defense: 49           
Spellpower: 43  -  Spell Crit: 49.7%  -  Spell Speed: 1
All damage: 7%  -  Physical: 51%  -  Fire: 10%  -  Cold: 2%

Physical Save: 45.5  -  Spell Save: 52.75  -  Mental Save: 31
All Resists: 7%  -  Fire: 35%  -  Cold: -5%  -  Lightning: 15%  -  Acid: 15%
Nature Resist: 30%  -  Confusion: 100%  -  Blind: 100%  -  Stun: 100%

Number of NPC killed: 5586  -  Most killed NPC: uruk-hai (248)

Well done! You have won the Tales of Middle-earth: the Fourth Age. The **** are dead, the ****  lie in ruins, thanks to your efforts. You have prevented the portal to the Void from opening and thus stopped Morgoth from bringing about the end of the world. The orc presence in the Far East has greatly been disminished by the loss of **** and the destruction of the **** . The free people of the Sunwall will be able to prosper and thrive on this land. The West will once more know peace, most of its inhabitant will never know they even were on the verge of destruction, but then this is what being a true hero means, to do the right thing even though nobody will know about it. You may continue playing and enjoy the rest of the world. ... unless you shoot yourself with a load of exploding dragonbone arrows !

 - Technique / Archery - bows (mastery 1.50) ... all 5
 - Technique / Archery - common (mastery 1.30)
    Steady Shot 5, Aim 0, Rapid Shot 0, Critical Shot 0
 - Technique / Archery - utility (mastery 1.30)
    Ammo Creation 1, Crippling Shot 5, Pinning Shot 5, Scatter Shot 5 ... ego ammo not worth it (cf ToME 2)
 - Technique / Field control (mastery 1.00)
    Disengage 5, Track 5, Heave 1, Slow Motion 1
 - Technique / Combat techniques (mastery 0.90) ... all 0
 - Technique / Combat techniques (mastery 0.90)
    Quick Recovery 5, Fast Metabolism 5, Spell Shield 5, Unending Frenzy 1/5
 - Technique / Combat training (mastery 1.30)
    Heavy Armour Training 1, Massive Armour Training 0, Health 5, Weapon Combat 10, [melee Masteries] 0
 - Cunning / Survival(mastery 1.00)
    Trap Detection 5, Heightened Senses 1, Trap Disarm 5, Evasion 0
 - Cunning / Packing (mastery 1.20)
    Efficient Packing 3, Insulating Packing 1, Burden Management 1, Pack Rat 0

There and back again. Someone in somewhere can do something for you. (does the portal to MM also work ?)
   * You have found a Blood-Runed Athame   * Find a Resonating Diamond.

a) mighty dragonbone longbow of great speed. Increases damage type: 31% physical. Dropped by skeleton archer
b) Limmir's Ring of the Moon. Increases stats: 12 Strength, 12 Dexterity, 12 Magic, 12 Willpower, 12 Cunning, 7 Constitution. Light radius 2
c) Glory of the Pride. Dropped by ****
d) Fiery Choker. Dropped by ****
e) Arkenstone of Thrain. Dropped by Krogar
f) Spider-Silk Robe of Torech Ungo
g) plush cashmere cloak of the Shire
h) Crown of the Elements. Dropped by ****
i) slotted drakeskin leather belt of life. Regenerates 0.90 hitpoints each turn.
j-m) 7 potion of greater healing, 2 potion of speed, 13 scroll of controlled phase door, 13 scroll of teleportation
n) polar drakeskin leather gloves of criticals
o) stealthy pair of hardened leather boots of speed. Dropped by crimson ooze
p) iron pickaxe of delving. Dropped by orc pyromancer
q) 444 dragonbone arrow
 Second weapon set: Gondor-Tree Longbow. Dropped by hill orc archer

Ever-Refilling Potion of Healing
[plenty potions to stop the dieing process, plenty scrolls to prevent it starting]
Various Orbs
Cinder mithril gauntlets of disarming (bonus: 28)
111 elemental dragonbone arrow (55.5-77.7 power, 18 apr) ... w00t !!! ... the store quotes 37.57 each :-)
   Damage on hit (ranged): 29 fire, 29 acid, 19 ice, 29 lightning. Dropped by naga tide huntress.
238 flaming dragonbone arrow, 97 poisonous dragonbone arrow, 164 poisonous elven-wood arrow, 37 shocking elven-wood arrow
Blood-Runed Athame
Pearl of Life and Death. Dropped by ****
edit: p.p.p.s. ... never really took much interest in languages until I had to, but crikey it's fascinating. Tolkien (his first interest was in the language aspects I believe) uses a lot of old[er] English constructions, which you find alive and well while learning German. Legolas says "a Balrog is come !" (not has) just as one would in Rehden, and there's many similar examples which grow on you, they're quite pretty. Also we naturally think that 'thou' and 'thee' are formal versions - no, they were the familiar, and e.g. mark a shift in the tone of Faramir and Eowyn's relationship ... i.e. you're onto a winner there, mate :wink:

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