1.0.5d Beta Ghoul Talent and Shields

[DarWinsEdge]

Wondered if the new ghoul passive talent, ghoul: you can never take a blow that does more than 50% of your maximum life, worked with shields. Started up debug mode on a new character, set health to 100, got fireflash to do self damage for 148.48 damage, and time shield with a value of 341. Nuked myself and instead of doing 148 damage to the shield, I could only do 50 damage. Don't know if this is working as designed.

About to test it in the newest beta (didn't know it was out) 1.0.5e.

(edit)
Confirmed to have the same effect in 1.0.5e.

Also, tested it and it works with the solipsism tree too, making a solipsist with low health (which they have inherently) and high psi nearly invincible.

Pretty sure the problem is with the order that reductions are being applied. The Ghoul talent is reducing the damage as it comes in first, before it gets reduced by psi or shields, instead of reducing the damage when it is actually done to health.

[supermini]

I can confirm this. It makes ghouls with aegis basically unkillable.

[SageAcrin]

Obviously, for Solipsism, it should work based off the combination of Psi and Life. Probably just an oversight there.

But shields is...interesting, and it's hard to think of a good answer to that. I guess it could check the combination of your life and the shield bar, for an easy fix(Or check for 100% of your shields+the TL-based percentage of your life), but that doesn't really work right with Displacement Shield, Retribution or Deflection, I think.

An unorthodox solution; Just base it off life, only. But whenever the cap is reached, have any shields that took the blow instantly be removed.

(Line in description; "Your arcane-granted Ghoulish durability is extended to any barriers as well; However, the necromantic energies you channel make them unstable, and any blow that would be up to (the percent of your life) will instantly shatter the barrier, regardless of how much life it has remaining.")

This still doesn't fix sustains being really good, and obviously shield heavy Ghouls would still be great, but it does keep Displacement Shield from mucking up the whole thing, and Aegis from letting you block half a dozen hits guaranteed. Retribution is only one barrier, at least, as is Deflection; I think they'd be okay as it is.

[0player]

Why not just to apply this to final stage of blow calculation? Like, to the phase when actual damage is actually subtracted from your actual health bar? So, if I have a shield for 300 and a life of 100, and receive a blow, it cannot do more than (300 to shield + 50 to character).

[SageAcrin]

Because that means that Displacement Shield is now strictly a negative to never be used by Ghouls.

If the %chance fails, you'll get oneshotted in cases where you would not have before.

[0player]

Because that means that Displacement Shield is now strictly a negative to never be used by Ghouls.

If the %chance fails, you'll get oneshotted in cases where you would not have before.

I believe, if %chance fails, the talent for doing no more than 50% of health would still apply?
Btw, capping damage *before* displacement makes displacement shield *more* useless.

[HousePet]

Applying the Ghoul reduction after all other shielding methods would be far more balanced.
It will still stop instant kills, unless you are on less than half health with no shield, which I believe it the point of the ability.
Applying it before shields stops your shields from being one shotted, which I don't beleive is the purpose of this ability.

...Now I'm thinking about an ability that keeps your shields up for one extra turn after they have had their cap exceeded...

[SageAcrin]

Because that means that Displacement Shield is now strictly a negative to never be used by Ghouls.

If the %chance fails, you'll get oneshotted in cases where you would not have before.

I believe, if %chance fails, the talent for doing no more than 50% of health would still apply?
Btw, capping damage *before* displacement makes displacement shield *more* useless.

As you wrote it, no, it would not.

So, if I have a shield for 300 and a life of 100, and receive a blow, it cannot do more than (300 to shield + 50 to character).

That would lead to you taking up to 350 on a failed attempt at Displacement Shield to stop the damage, massively overkilling you.

Not seeing how capping it before Displacement Shield makes it more useless, either.

How is it going to check Disruption Shield, anyways? Total of your HP and the amount of Mana you are from cap/2(assuming 50% from the capped talent)? Or all of the mana you are from cap+50% of your HP? One is consistent with Solipsism, the other is consistent with other barriers.

There's a reason I think just having it do the reduction, then suspend/remove the barriers, is simpler...

[HousePet]

They did say 'cannot do more than 350', which allows the maximum of 50 applying if the displacement shield triggered.
50 damage is not more than 350.

[SageAcrin]

Yes, but how are you going to make the Ghoul talent based check aware that the Displacement Shield check was failed?

Certainly, it can be coded-anything can be coded. But when you're generating a bunch of exceptions for various talents, your base code's in a bad place...

[HousePet]

You have the Ghoul reduction done last, then all other shields have already been taken into account.
The same effect already exists, Necromancer's Sacrifice.

[SageAcrin]

I'll take your word on that, then.

I've certainly never tested the various synergies of Sacrifice.

Seems like the best answer, in that case.

[0player]

Yes, but how are you going to make the Ghoul talent based check aware that the Displacement Shield check was failed?

Certainly, it can be coded-anything can be coded. But when you're generating a bunch of exceptions for various talents, your base code's in a bad place...

Just make the ghoul check the last one in the default projector, right before subtracting damage from health bar. Then it automatically accounts for everything.
Also, my sentiment about (300+50) was related to damage shields.
Capping before makes dispshield less useful because, if somebody inflicts a blow of 200 onto you and it gets capped at 120 before being redirected into boss' face, then boss receives less damage in his face. However, if capping occurs only right before something's flying definitely towards your own precious persona, then boss gets what she deserves.

[darkgod]

Fixed, now applies after shields