Doomed... is there enough hate?

[dukereg]

As a Cursed you almost never have to think about Hate because you just need to have it, not consume it, and you get more by just hitting things like you were going to anyway.

Doomed seems to rely on consuming hate, and the ways of getting hate back seem... iffy.

The wiki page (http://te4.org/wiki/Hate) says you can get 8+ hate for killing something, 2+ hate for losing a massive amount of life, 4 hate for getting pounded while you are almost dead, and some amount when you take over 1/3 of an enemy's health in one go.
I've also seen my Cursed chars get more hate when a powerful enemy is nearby.
For Doomed there is also the Feed talent which gives you what looks like a maximum of about 7 hate per turn while in line of sight of a fed-upon enemy.

It seems like Doomed would have trouble starting the fight with enough hate to cast things, keeping hate high enough to do something every turn while enemies are around, and getting hate back if you have to run away.

When you're up against solo/pair enemies like chest rares, chronolith twins, tannen+drolem, pedestal guardians, high peak sorcerers, etc, you won't be killing anything quickly or taking off 1/3 of anything's life in one hit, it seems like you'd be even worse off.

Yet there are plenty of Doomed winners, so the question is: How do you keep your hate high enough to be effective?

[Tyren]

Startscum to buy tier3 hateful torque of mindblast in zigur. Other hateful charms without psychoportation work but lower cooldown allows to reach 80+ hate out of combat. Another method involves dealing damage to yourself and healing.

The torques enable doomed to abuse line of sight with blast then retreat to the stairs with movement infusion. Change level go back and repeat if there's anything threatening.

[cttw]

...so without scumming there is not enough hate?

[HousePet]

I think they were just suggesting stair cheese to use an item as damage instead of using hate.

I just use Feed.

[Cathbald]

When I play doomed I don't feel any problem with hate. With doomed I'm almost always above 50%, thanks to feed, with cursed the only way I can go above 50% hate is by leveling up. Just use feed on the furthest/most resilient enemy and see your hate go up. It'll work during your whole fight or even if you run away as long as you keep LoS

[Tyren]

I think they were just suggesting stair cheese to use an item as damage instead of using hate.

I just use Feed.

My idea is that spamming fast hateful torques allows some hate to regenerate in few game turns.
You can safely kill an immovable enemy without insane healing using that hate for Force of Will/Blast corner shoot. Challenging enemies can be baited closer to an exit round a corner out of LOS. Bonus points for having a wall behind them so they stay in the same spot. Changing level and going back immediately will cause them to forget about the player. Use corner shoot tactics to daze and knockback them for long enough to leave the level (Movement infusion is good here). Switch back the level, recharge cooldowns and some hate. Then repeat the process.
This play can be not worth your time and it doesn't work in every zone. Turn off call shadows if you try this.

[Frumple]

When I play doomed I don't feel any problem with hate. With doomed I'm almost always above 50%, thanks to feed, with cursed the only way I can go above 50% hate is by leveling up. Just use feed on the furthest/most resilient enemy and see your hate go up. It'll work during your whole fight or even if you run away as long as you keep LoS

This, more or less. It has been a great many versions since doomed had much in the way of resource management concerns. Honestly, they generally have one of the easiest times of any class keeping their resource available and topped off, in my experience (they've got other difficulties, but running out of hate ain't one of 'em). Feed and the passive hate generation stuff (killing, etc.) is almost always plenty, and when it's not, you can usually just hold back a little feeding while your shadows distract things (or just leave a melee enemy alive and kite it around for a little bit, if for some mad reason you're not using shadows).

[dukereg]

Well I'm not startscumming or relying on stairdancing with perfect enemy positioning, but I'll keep an eye out for hate items.

Otherwise I'm getting that hate is not a particular problem, but sometimes it will drop low enough that you can't do much until you Feed for a while. This has happened to me on stamina characters and mana characters, but they regenerate if I run away somewhere safe. If I even run around a corner with Doomed when low on hate, I lose Feed and then it drops even lower, right? Do Doomed just stand and fight everything instead of using terrain as a shield?

Can you have shadows going all the time so that they can take hits for you immediately out of autoexplore, or do they drain too much hate?

I don't suppose anyone knows of a youtube video of someone competently playing Doomed?

[HousePet]

Shadows only drain hate if they are getting destroyed.

[cttw]

If you level up Shadow Mages they have a chance to regenerate on death and that reduces your hate costs. I find that doomed suffers a lot for not being able to rest like the other classes. Almost every other class can rest and top up their resources. Doomed rests and the resources drop. If you end up a fight on low hate, that means your pitiful shield won't even be regenerated for the next fight, you'll have no shadows and no opening shot. Your opening shot will have to be waiting in sight of the next enemy. No other class has this handicap.

It is not impossible to win, but there are very few doomed winners and I think many people here are remembering doomed from before a bunch of other classes got buffed, and the nerf of mental tyranny.