I have a build for my berserker in mind: increase str, con and cun and the last points in dex. While leveling i'll take also items that give lot of dex and mag in the inventory cause of the high encumbrance e cause i want to take Crafty Hands and talent Imbue Item which requires magic. Then when i can get to chose the prodigy i'll equip those +dex items to reach 50 dex, take the prodigy and then remove the gear and then imbue gems to my equipment plus the rings. Is this considered ok? I mean, does it work as intended or it's gonna be fixed in the next patch? Feels like cheating to me...
My idea was taking 2 white voratun rings imbue them with 2 fire opals and then imbue my belt, helm and armor with 3 fire opals --> +50% damage && +25% critical chance
Does this work as intended?
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Re: Does this work as intended?
if you are asking about stat juggling, that's been around for quite some time.
DG hasn't done anything about this so far, so i don't think he is going to.
if you find an exploit, just abuse it as much as you want.
DG hasn't done anything about this so far, so i don't think he is going to.
if you find an exploit, just abuse it as much as you want.
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Gilgamesh123
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Re: Does this work as intended?
I just wanna know if it's considered a bug or if it's intended
Re: Does this work as intended?
its accepted.
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Gilgamesh123
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Re: Does this work as intended?
Are we sure xD? Same goes for the Windblade prodigy. You can just equip 2 daggers with a berserker for example and then practice on the training dummy and then you can use this prodigy with a two-handed weapon. Did DarkGod answered some questions regarding this matter?
Re: Does this work as intended?
a bad design choice =/= bug.
its been discussed, nothing changed.
its been discussed, nothing changed.
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Gilgamesh123
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Re: Does this work as intended?
Ok... i guess it's considered "cheating" then.
Re: Does this work as intended?
except noone cares.
people still abuse the hell out of it.
people still abuse the hell out of it.
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Gilgamesh123
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Re: Does this work as intended?
well, i care 
'cause it is not "honorable" to play this way.
'cause it is not "honorable" to play this way.Re: Does this work as intended?
I don't consider it cheating and keep in mind some thing are based things like raw talents rather than boosted talents.
Think of it this way, supposed I found a belt that gave me 50 strength at level 20. I then never take this belt off. I functionally have 50 strength and all reasonable people should conclude that I am in fact capable of applying brute force. There is absolutely no reason that someone should not be able to do or learn a brute force move that requires a certain level of strength if they do indeed have that level of strength, no matter how they got it. How you get it is immaterial, because functionally you have it.
The only thing that is lacking is you should be unable to use certain things when your stats once again go below.
However keep in mind many things associated with a stat requirement also scale off that stat and are essentially do a "soft" rather than "hard" blocker on its use. There are some things like say flexible combat that require a certain stat but are great without it, but I would say most of those case the stat requirement is just there to be there and really should be removed entirely. I would go so far as to say all prodigies that don't involve scaling for the stat category they are in, should have no stat requirements. Prodigies already have a hard level limited amount anyway.
Similarly you could say wield a sword by boosting strength but your stat scaling is strength and you lose ALOT of damage my not scaling strength. Many people do not fully graps all the damage mechanics. But the stat something scales off is one of the two, by far, largest contributions to damage.
Anyway its not really something to worry about rather worry about scaling and you will start to see that your concerns are an extremely minor issue and stats are in fact far harder to exploit into a "I can do everything" type of thing.
I mean in the vault there is a guy who beat Insane with a Cursed Ogre, his final strength is over 200. Most requirements are 50 or less. The requirements only really matter in the first half of game and scaling is extremely important that Ogre with 200 str is doing FAR more damage than even someone with 100 Str.
Stats are extremely important in a number of cases, but not always. But basically never for the reason this thread is worried about. Nor should the be. The current system where most stat concerns are about effectiveness is a much more interesting mechanics than whether you can simply wear something which is a boring, uninteresting, and extremely unwieldly for getting loot and building your character. Personally I think stat based requirements on equipment and abilities should just be erased from most RPGs in general. The scaling and resource concerns of stats is a far better mechanic for every aspect of the game both in building and actually playing the game. Getting a really nice random drop you can never use sucks. Getting a really nice random drop you can use but are not built that well for is much better. So TOME4 is mostly fine because while it has both systems, it is in fact mostly based upon the better model and things work out ok. Is it a littler hinky when someone boost str by 20 to get to wield a str 48 shield and then goes back to 30 str? Yes it is. But it is also doesn't actually matter in a functional sense really.
Think of it this way, supposed I found a belt that gave me 50 strength at level 20. I then never take this belt off. I functionally have 50 strength and all reasonable people should conclude that I am in fact capable of applying brute force. There is absolutely no reason that someone should not be able to do or learn a brute force move that requires a certain level of strength if they do indeed have that level of strength, no matter how they got it. How you get it is immaterial, because functionally you have it.
The only thing that is lacking is you should be unable to use certain things when your stats once again go below.
However keep in mind many things associated with a stat requirement also scale off that stat and are essentially do a "soft" rather than "hard" blocker on its use. There are some things like say flexible combat that require a certain stat but are great without it, but I would say most of those case the stat requirement is just there to be there and really should be removed entirely. I would go so far as to say all prodigies that don't involve scaling for the stat category they are in, should have no stat requirements. Prodigies already have a hard level limited amount anyway.
Similarly you could say wield a sword by boosting strength but your stat scaling is strength and you lose ALOT of damage my not scaling strength. Many people do not fully graps all the damage mechanics. But the stat something scales off is one of the two, by far, largest contributions to damage.
Anyway its not really something to worry about rather worry about scaling and you will start to see that your concerns are an extremely minor issue and stats are in fact far harder to exploit into a "I can do everything" type of thing.
I mean in the vault there is a guy who beat Insane with a Cursed Ogre, his final strength is over 200. Most requirements are 50 or less. The requirements only really matter in the first half of game and scaling is extremely important that Ogre with 200 str is doing FAR more damage than even someone with 100 Str.
Stats are extremely important in a number of cases, but not always. But basically never for the reason this thread is worried about. Nor should the be. The current system where most stat concerns are about effectiveness is a much more interesting mechanics than whether you can simply wear something which is a boring, uninteresting, and extremely unwieldly for getting loot and building your character. Personally I think stat based requirements on equipment and abilities should just be erased from most RPGs in general. The scaling and resource concerns of stats is a far better mechanic for every aspect of the game both in building and actually playing the game. Getting a really nice random drop you can never use sucks. Getting a really nice random drop you can use but are not built that well for is much better. So TOME4 is mostly fine because while it has both systems, it is in fact mostly based upon the better model and things work out ok. Is it a littler hinky when someone boost str by 20 to get to wield a str 48 shield and then goes back to 30 str? Yes it is. But it is also doesn't actually matter in a functional sense really.
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Gilgamesh123
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Re: Does this work as intended?
let's say there is a talent A (which damage/ability scales with talent level) that needs 20 mag point before investing talent points into it. If my char has 0 mag but then i find a belt that gives me +30 mag i will temporarly equip it to invest talent points into it then i'll remove it. The result is that i can use this talent without needing mag. This doesn't seem ok to me.
the chants talent tree that escorts give is a perfect example: i can equip mag giving items for the purpose of investing points in chant of fortitude then i remove the items and i can still use the chant. Doesn't seem fair to me. It's a shamefur dispray! XD
the chants talent tree that escorts give is a perfect example: i can equip mag giving items for the purpose of investing points in chant of fortitude then i remove the items and i can still use the chant. Doesn't seem fair to me. It's a shamefur dispray! XD
Re: Does this work as intended?
or you can just ask the escort for a point in bathe in light.
or for unflinching resolve.
how about stone touch?
look. you need the stats to figure out how to do the things.
but once you know, you can just scale it down.
in case of crafty hands, you can just pretend that your characters automatically puts the right gear on to do the job.
and so on.
or for unflinching resolve.
how about stone touch?
look. you need the stats to figure out how to do the things.
but once you know, you can just scale it down.
in case of crafty hands, you can just pretend that your characters automatically puts the right gear on to do the job.
and so on.
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Gilgamesh123
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Re: Does this work as intended?
I agree in case of Crafty Hands. But in the case of Windblade, Spectral Shield and Garkul's Revenge no. I just want to play fair but i don't know if it's a stupid idea in the sense that i'll get killed easily or it's well balanced to play fairly. I'll play in nightmare difficulty, this is why i'm asking.
Re: Does this work as intended?
If you're playing to win, then I don't know why you're worried about exploits.
A little bit of a starters guide written by yours truly here.
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Gilgamesh123
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Re: Does this work as intended?
I enjoy the game because it is challenging. And of course i'm trying to win but i want to overcome those obstacles by using "tools", that the game provides me, that are not "broken" if you know what i mean. I just wanna know if it makes things unbalanced in nightmare. If it does i'll think of another build on my char, if it doesn't then it's okay. Please veterans of Tome4 answer me!!! XD
Last edited by Gilgamesh123 on Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.