Surviving Undead Started Dungeon as a Ghoul

[pizdabol]

Surviving it seems night impossible on all pure melee Ghouls on Insane and most on Nightmare. So far the only way I've done it is to luck out with level exits and get the hell out of dodge before the mooks get me.

Or maybe luck out even more and find a Torque or Wand just lying around or a super weak boss like a Worm Mass or something (though killing me still seems well into their capability on Insane). This never happens.


Any thoughts?

PS: Can the Necromancer drop Wands or Torques?
PPS: Am I gonna be forever stuck with the "Rotting Stench of Death" quest open, like some shameful mark to remind me of my cowardly retreat? This ought to be achievement worthy.

[jaumito]

Ranged classes don't have it better, with a lite radius of 2 and 80% speed. I wish both undead races had cunning/survival unlocked at creation (which would make sense - they live in dark places, don't they?)

I believe that, aside from the cloak, the necromancer drops regular monster loot - usually nothing, sometimes a single item that could be anything in the allowed level range, even an artifact. I see no reason why this item couldn't be a torque or wand.

Re PPS: mastering the art of "cowardly retreat" is an achievement in itself, as it is the most desirable survival skill in this game, in my humble opinion.

[Red]

It might just be flat out impossible. The Doombringer starter area, for instance, is basically impossible on Madness. The game is not properly balanced for higher dificulties, as those are intended as challenge modes. (I'm not sure Madness was originally intended to be possible at all, and it still isn't for most classes.)

However, if you can just run away... - do it! Don't look at it as cowardly retreat-you were basically born five minutes ago. I'd say it's pretty damn impressive for something five minutes old to successfully escape a hellhole full of undead omnstrosities hungering for your flesh, and a horrifying, gigantic construction of bones and souls looking to add yours to its mass.

As a small side note, what class are you specifically playing? You said melee, but there are quite a few of those classes.

[Isotope-X]

Especially because it's not so much "running away" as "shuffling".

[pizdabol]

Shuffling sounds about right .

I'm trying real hard with a Marauder on Insane these days, managed to get a few out, but the outside world ain't so bright either.
I reckon it's not gonna be any easier with a Berserker or Rogue, probably a bit easier with Brawler, I'm definitely trying one. Cursed I gave up a long time ago, even on Nightmare.

[malboro_urchin]

It might just be flat out impossible. The Doombringer starter area, for instance, is basically impossible on Madness.

Does this mean that, ironically, Doombringers & Demonologists are impossible to play in these difficulties? I thought racial starting zones were supposed to overwrite class starting zones, and yet, when I started a Dwarf Demonologist, I started in the Searing Halls. I then tried a Skeleton Demonologist, with the intent of avoiding the Searing Halls, in favor of the comparably easier undead start, and it worked.

Disclaimer: I've only ever played ToME on normal, and am still working towards a win. I find the Searing Halls very difficult, and definitely harder than the Yeek start, even on normal

[Red]

Might be class/race specific. Perhaps each origin is given a certain priority, and undead has the highest because that's literally you being born? Or maybe Searing Halls has special code to overwrite racial origins except for undead, since demons wouldn't bothering capturing undead who can't feel pain.

And are you kidding? Searing Halls is worlds easier than the Yeek starter. I hate anything underwater without water breathing.

[malboro_urchin]

I'm serious. I've struggled a lot more with Searing Halls than I have with the Yeek start. The underwater portion isn't that bad at all, air bubbles are plentiful. As long as you're sure to clear out whatever you can of the underwater portion before fighting the hive mother, you're fine.

[Red]

Maybe that's my issue. I have this policy of going into a dungeon and finishing it, come hell or high water. So once I step foot into Murgol's Lair, I ain't leaving till that underwater bastard is dead or I'm dead.

So really, Searing Halls having to be completed without leaving doesn't mean much to me. I wouldn't anyway, but I guess the loser* players might like a chance to retreat.

*smarter and generally more prudent