How exactly does Arcane Premonition (66% all resist) work?

[Robsoie]

Thanks for confirming, so basically a prodigy i'll never take as indeed there are much more attractive ones.

[evouga]

Yeah, I think Aether Permeation needs to be buffed. Adding a small +% arcane resistance or arcane resistance cap to the prodigy itself would be a nice start.

Notice, though, that unlike what was said in previous posts, resist all *does* apply separately from the 66% Aether Permeation cap and separately from the arcane resistance cap. So if you are going Aether Permeation you should still try to stack as much resist all as possible.

[Tharsonius]

i checked an old archmage after ur comment, and noticed some strange stuff about the prodigy.

1: the character has thick skin 5/5 but his all res is 22% (no all res from items), and 70% arcane resist resulting in 46% to all resistances

2: except mind damage. seems like mind resistance isnt granted by the prodigy. this makes it even worse imo because mind damage is the one niche resist u dont want to stack by standard but which can save ur live on the right occasion (we all know solipsist rares) and which would be a reason to pick the prodigy

[evouga]

Are you carrying the Pearl of Life and Death?

[Tharsonius]

yea i do youre right about the 7% allres

still no explanation that mind resist isnt shown, i assume it is 22% like all res

another pro for the prodigy: items which give -resistance wont harm your resist( except all and arcane i guess)

[evouga]

Another thing I just noticed from the code: the 66% reduction in resistance applies to resist all too, not just resist arcane! Weak!

In other words, the correct tooltip for the prodigy should be:

"33% of all incoming damage becomes unresistable. The rest is reduced using arcane and all resistance instead of whatever resistances would usually apply."

[HousePet]

Except that doesn't work in the case of arcane damage, and seems to imply other protection effects won't work.

[evouga]

Yeah. I guess the main point is that it's unclear what this talent does without source-diving, and then once you've figured out the full math it's quite disappointing.

[HousePet]

It does exactly what it says it does, its just that people always try to interpret it to be better than it actually is.
I'm constantly amazed at how people can read obscure loop holes into rules and then get disappointed when they aren't there.

[evouga]

It does exactly what it says it does, its just that people always try to interpret it to be better than it actually is.

To be frank, I don't believe you.

Suppose you have 20% resist all, 50% resist arcane, and 30% resist fire. A mob (with no resistance penetration) hits you for 100 fire damage.

How much damage do you think you will take, with and without Aether Permeation?

Can you walk me through how you figured that out, from the tooltip "all of your resistances are equal to 66% of your arcane resistance"?

I look forward to the explanation, because I don't see how that tooltip can be reasonably interpreted, even in a convoluted way, to match what actually is going on in the source code.

[HousePet]

So total fire resist is 44%, total arcane resist is 60%.

If 100 fire damage is applied without aether permeation you take 56 damage.
100 * (1 - 0.44)
If 100 fire damage is applied with aether permeation you take 60 damage.
100 * (1 - 0.60 * 0.66)

[Istrebitel]

Well, HousePet, it makes sense, if you know that this is how resistance works. And if this is an agreed naming convention.

Basically, if we already agree that the fact that different sources of resistances apply multiplicatively is common sense (which is never told to us in the game, so it probably isn't), even then we have two separate things we can mean when we say "Arcane Resistance". In other words, Arcane Resistance can mean two (mutually exclusive things):
1) It can mean the sum of our Arcane Resistance modifiers from all sources (Aka, if I wear -5%, +6% and +15% Arcane Resistance gear, my Arcane Resistance is 16%)
2) It can mean the damage reduction we receive when we take Arcane Damage (Aka, if I have 15% Resist All from talents, and 50% Resist Arcane from gear, my Arcane Resistance is 60%)

So:
- either we go with (1), then we call modifiers from items/talents "Arcane Resistance" and then (2) should be called "Arcane Damage Reduction" or something
- or we go with (2), then modifiers from items (1) should be called something like "Arcane Resistance Bonus" (which can be negative, in which case it is no longer a bonus...)

IMHO, first is more intuitive and just closer to common sense... Thus creating confusion with regards to the talent in question.

[evouga]

Thanks HousePet, that does make more sense.

The concept of "total resistance" is not explained anywhere, but neither are a lot of the game mechanics like armor, spellpower, etc. Whether or not that is good or bad is, I think, a topic for another thread. I would suggest, though, that the way "total resistance" works with Aether Permeation is particularly confusing, and that most players would assume an armor that gives +60% arcane resistance, +40% (= 0.66*60%) fire resistance would offer the same amount of fire protection with and without Permeation. In fact with Permeation it is usually weaker.

[Istrebitel]

This is typical when game is made by mostly one person.

Not to insult DarkGod, no, not at all, he made an excellent game, a superb and very cool game, but it reeks "passion project of one person"... with such misspells and uncertain/unclear tooltips. And not only in the case of this prodigy - take attack speed for example, where more is somehow worse (more attack speed = slower weapon, how's that logical?), or the whole item comparison interface, and other parts. I guess, DarkGod is more interested in adding new stuff, balancing and fixing severe bugs... I mean, I'm a programmer myself, and I know it's much more fun to add new features rather than go around tidying stuff up. It's even harder to accept that something you have done is not up to par and needs improvement... Not only because of the fact that you must accept it that you have done something wrong or medicore, but also because you're so used to it you just don't see a problem (I mean, when you know the code by heart, problems like uncertain tooltips don't bother you at all, since you don't need them!)

It would be nice if someone would work on fixing such minor problems, stylising and improving tooltips and such. I mean, this game is open source, no?

[Xandor Tik'Roth]

Istrebitel, yes, this is very much a one-man show. DG has a great deal of passion for this project, but if you look at the release notes, every version has added in things and fixed many other things. The misspellings are a very, very small part of the game and they don't crop up that often, so they're not that high on the list of things to be done.

Yes, there are things that need to be fixed. That's why we have an Ideas forum. I can personally confirm that he goes through every one of those looking for things. Why not create a thread there with the problems that you have found in the game and suggestions on how to fix them?