My Alchemist finally died right after hitting level 30. Not to shabby, but looking back, I lost most of my lives dealing with vaults.
I opened every vault I could find, which in hindsight was a bad idea. What are your strategies for dealing with them. Does anyone here skip all of them? Do people come back a little later? Any tricks I should know about?
How do you approch vaults?
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Re: How do you approch vaults?
In general, I'd say it's usually safe to open if you have a mobility skill like controlled Phase Door or Movement infusion, have already cleared the rest of the level, and don't need to come back to the level. If you open the vault and an enemy is too dangerous, you should be able to escape and not need to fight it in this case.
Otherwise, opening vaults can be risky depending on your character and difficulty setting. It's not necessarily a bad idea, but it requires a judgment call regarding your character's relative strength for level, gear quality, and essential survival tools. If you're not sure, it's probably better to be safe and skip it. You can always return at a higher level since items in vaults don't decay.
Otherwise, opening vaults can be risky depending on your character and difficulty setting. It's not necessarily a bad idea, but it requires a judgment call regarding your character's relative strength for level, gear quality, and essential survival tools. If you're not sure, it's probably better to be safe and skip it. You can always return at a higher level since items in vaults don't decay.
Re: How do you approch vaults?
if you don't know, then don't.
small vaults usually have fixed mobs in them.
one vault always has 4 skeleton mages, and contains 2 staves and 5 inscriptions,
another has 3 degenerated skeletons and 1 armored skeleton warior, and contain 4 items,
then there is one that always has 4 honey trees and a lvl 30 grizzly bear...
they aren't that difficult if you have prepared.
stand i front of the door, pop a shield, open, and fire your nukes, or whatever you have.
bigger ones however, have random enemies of a MUCH higher lvl than yours, and most of them being elite quality mobs.
these are extremely dangerous for new players, and WILL kill you, if you are not taking all possible precautions.
that inludes clearing the entirety of the instance, before you even look at the door.
when you see an enemy in a bigger vault, don't charge. instead, let him follow you outside, and then, in the clear fight him one on one.
as since they are of a higher lvl, their damage will be overwhelming when they use skills, and so can easly take a 3rd of your health in 1 swing if not more, so pay attention to it and dent ever let it get below 50%...
its a death trap alrighT? stay away.
small vaults usually have fixed mobs in them.
one vault always has 4 skeleton mages, and contains 2 staves and 5 inscriptions,
another has 3 degenerated skeletons and 1 armored skeleton warior, and contain 4 items,
then there is one that always has 4 honey trees and a lvl 30 grizzly bear...
they aren't that difficult if you have prepared.
stand i front of the door, pop a shield, open, and fire your nukes, or whatever you have.
bigger ones however, have random enemies of a MUCH higher lvl than yours, and most of them being elite quality mobs.
these are extremely dangerous for new players, and WILL kill you, if you are not taking all possible precautions.
that inludes clearing the entirety of the instance, before you even look at the door.
when you see an enemy in a bigger vault, don't charge. instead, let him follow you outside, and then, in the clear fight him one on one.
as since they are of a higher lvl, their damage will be overwhelming when they use skills, and so can easly take a 3rd of your health in 1 swing if not more, so pay attention to it and dent ever let it get below 50%...
its a death trap alrighT? stay away.
Re: How do you approch vaults?
So if he follows your advice, he'll never open a vault.Radon26 wrote:if you don't know, then don't
Open them (like Effigy said) only if you have a good escape plan. A lot can go wrong in a fight with vault mobs: status effects, your choke point gets overwhelmed, unexpected enemies, etc. Also be wary for traps, as they do have a tendency to appear more in vaults. Imo, the best way to learn which vaults have what in them are to open them and if you do that, you'll learn how to deal with them a little better.
As for my play style when it comes to vaults, I usually open all vaults except ones in Dreadfell. Screw those.
A little bit of a starters guide written by yours truly here.
Re: How do you approch vaults?
Baaasically this. The only major addendum I'd really make is to probably skip Blighted Ruins vaults, and probably skip High Peak vaults -- the former you're pretty likely to be unable to survive if a curveball comes out of it, and that latter there's almost certainly just no point by that point, you'll already have everything you really need to finish the game so the extra risk is just kinda' meaningless (barring the fun of it, anyway, aheh).Effigy wrote:In general, I'd say it's usually safe to open if you have a mobility skill like controlled Phase Door or Movement infusion, have already cleared the rest of the level, and don't need to come back to the level. If you open the vault and an enemy is too dangerous, you should be able to escape and not need to fight it in this case.
Otherwise, opening vaults can be risky depending on your character and difficulty setting. It's not necessarily a bad idea, but it requires a judgment call regarding your character's relative strength for level, gear quality, and essential survival tools. If you're not sure, it's probably better to be safe and skip it. You can always return at a higher level since items in vaults don't decay.
As for little tricks, one I've found helps a fair bit with the vaults (where it's an option, anyway, and particularly with earlier ones) is to always open doors from a diagonal position, standing where you can step one step back and break line of sight with whatever is on the other side of the door. Often enough, if it turns out the thing(s) waiting on the inside of the vault are vicious murderbeasts you have no chance of killing or escaping, you can take one step back and more or less just not wake them up.
Re: How do you approch vaults?
I definitely agree with opening doors from the diagonal. You also want to pull enemies to the doorway and fight them there so you can fight one at a time.
There is a scummy trick you can use to always make it safe to open vaults, but it's basically cheating so the choice is yours whether to do it. If you manually save with Ctrl+S before opening the vault, you can kill the game process at a later time and none of the changes will be saved unless the game autosaved (e.g., you died).
There is a scummy trick you can use to always make it safe to open vaults, but it's basically cheating so the choice is yours whether to do it. If you manually save with Ctrl+S before opening the vault, you can kill the game process at a later time and none of the changes will be saved unless the game autosaved (e.g., you died).
Re: How do you approch vaults?
And O-M-G guess where it was I lost my last life? Level 7 of dreadfellMicbran wrote:I usually open all vaults except ones in Dreadfell. Screw those.
That is what happened, and I was trying to do Line of Sight him, but w/e was hitting me was doing it outside of my vision, I think? IDK, I'm still not good at this game. I need more practice. Was dying without even activating my movement infusion or gem portal.Radon26 wrote:when you see an enemy in a bigger vault, don't charge. instead, let him follow you outside, and then, in the clear fight him one on one.
as since they are of a higher lvl, their damage will be overwhelming when they use skills, and so can easly take a 3rd of your health in 1 swing if not more, so pay attention to it and dent ever let it get below 50%...
That's a great idea I didn't even think of. On level 5 of dreadfell, I abandoned a vault I opened (it had lava floors, and I couldn't get to w/e was summoning magic blades before my health got to low). Had to carefully run through the level a few times to get back, very sad.Effigy wrote:have already cleared the rest of the level, and don't need to come back to the level
Effigy wrote:There is a scummy trick you can use to always make it safe to open vaults, but it's basically cheating so the choice is yours whether to do it. If you manually save with Ctrl+S before opening the vault, you can kill the game process at a later time and none of the changes will be saved unless the game autosaved (e.g., you died).
That is pretty scummy, I'm afraid if I do it, I'll never be able to NOT do it.
One of my problems (one of many) is I can't tell what is a muderbeast I can't escape until my golem is dead and it's biting me in the face. I think that will be the topic of tomorrows question.Micbran wrote:Often enough, if it turns out the thing(s) waiting on the inside of the vault are vicious murderbeasts you have no chance of killing or escaping
Re: How do you approch vaults?
"but w/e was hitting me was doing it outside of my vision"
if you get out of enemy sight, they will target somewhere around your last position.
if its aoe, it can reach out or the sight range.
also, in dredfell's vaults, there is a small chance of spawning a "naga myrmidon".
that's a vicious little mob, that has a minimum lvl of 30 and likes to spit at you.
in game, he is a rank of elite. but here in the forum, he is a legend for that. (and in the maze)
if you arcane eye him, just forget that vault even exist.
as for how to tell a murder beast...
anything that is of elite tier, a horror type, or a rand boss, basically. any combination of that is an overkill.
also, a better way to tell, right-click, and "inspect creature".
then, go to the talent tab, and see what the hell it does.
see how much mobility and damage dealing talents it has.
also, all horrors are themed.
blade- physicall and bleeed
luminous- light and fire
bloated- mind
and so on. memorising all of them may be helpful, when you forget to inspect them.
and if you come by more special ones (oozing or dreaming) then again, just get out of there.
if you get out of enemy sight, they will target somewhere around your last position.
if its aoe, it can reach out or the sight range.
also, in dredfell's vaults, there is a small chance of spawning a "naga myrmidon".
that's a vicious little mob, that has a minimum lvl of 30 and likes to spit at you.
in game, he is a rank of elite. but here in the forum, he is a legend for that. (and in the maze)
if you arcane eye him, just forget that vault even exist.
as for how to tell a murder beast...
anything that is of elite tier, a horror type, or a rand boss, basically. any combination of that is an overkill.
also, a better way to tell, right-click, and "inspect creature".
then, go to the talent tab, and see what the hell it does.
see how much mobility and damage dealing talents it has.
also, all horrors are themed.
blade- physicall and bleeed
luminous- light and fire
bloated- mind
and so on. memorising all of them may be helpful, when you forget to inspect them.
and if you come by more special ones (oozing or dreaming) then again, just get out of there.
Re: How do you approch vaults?
Lesser Vaults: Clear the level then open them.
Greater Vaults: Clear then zone and then decide if you want to come back later.
I've found that Dreadfell vaults are safest to wait until you return from the Far East. However, I do tend to do them immediately after Dreadfell lately. But that is because I've been doing almost everything before tackling Dreadfell. So aim for about level 30 before trying them.
Greater Vaults: Clear then zone and then decide if you want to come back later.
I've found that Dreadfell vaults are safest to wait until you return from the Far East. However, I do tend to do them immediately after Dreadfell lately. But that is because I've been doing almost everything before tackling Dreadfell. So aim for about level 30 before trying them.
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Re: How do you approch vaults?
Let's see:
? And the exception to the exception is the Urkis level, which IME usually has one or two of the oblong vaults. They'll be tricky, but you're not coming back to this level anyway, and by then you'll probably have leveled up enough that you can manage them with a little care after clearing the rest of the level.
- Up through about Old Forest, you can usually handle the vaults after you've cleared the rest of the level, once you've learned to recognize them by shape and thus know what to expect. The exception to this is the long oblong-shaped vaults with a door at one end; if you run into one of those early, leave it and come back for it after you've gained two or three levels.?
- There's only one vault type in Daikara (that I've seen); it can be tricky, but you can probably do it if you're careful. Your strategy will generally be to open the big room, teleport out, and lure the baddies out one or a few at a time.
- Anything in Dreadfell and beyond, leave it and don't even think about coming back for it until you've gained at least ten levels. Maybe fifteen. I'd go with fifteen just to be safe.
? And the exception to the exception is the Urkis level, which IME usually has one or two of the oblong vaults. They'll be tricky, but you're not coming back to this level anyway, and by then you'll probably have leveled up enough that you can manage them with a little care after clearing the rest of the level.
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Re: How do you approch vaults?
You will only learn by trial and error. Enemy types are often consistent with the dungeon types.
For example Rhaloren Vaults can spawn a high level elven maged and Corruptors. Quick getaway and/or bad statuses are what you can use against them. If you don't have those then I suggest not to open.. At lower levels at least.
Daikara / Urkis Vaults are usually rather easy, not spawning anything you haven't dealt with before.
Dreadfell has a tendency to spawn bad things so might want to steer clear of those.
Also there are vault shapes you can decipher the contents with. Spider vault being one of those.
So, a lot of trial and error will teach you the quirks and eventually you will master all the Vaults.
For example Rhaloren Vaults can spawn a high level elven maged and Corruptors. Quick getaway and/or bad statuses are what you can use against them. If you don't have those then I suggest not to open.. At lower levels at least.
Daikara / Urkis Vaults are usually rather easy, not spawning anything you haven't dealt with before.
Dreadfell has a tendency to spawn bad things so might want to steer clear of those.
Also there are vault shapes you can decipher the contents with. Spider vault being one of those.
So, a lot of trial and error will teach you the quirks and eventually you will master all the Vaults.
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Re: How do you approch vaults?
Just my 0.02 gold pieces - most of the time I have a teleport rune and I open vaults only after clearing the rest of the level. Since vaults are no-teleport-into zones, the rune will always teleport me out, and most likely far enough for me to recuperate from debuffs or health loss.
Of course, the teleport rune can be put on cooldown by stuns (and silence?), so it's not 100% reliable. Then again, after a while (and some inevitable deaths) you'll remember what vaults and monsters you can find in a particular location.
About the layouts: Small vaults usually have fixed monsters. IMHO the most dangerous is the vault with those four skeleton mages - they love to fire their Arcane Beam (or whatever is it called) simultaneously as their very first action for a massive nuke damage.
Large vaults are usually much tougher, and for a good part of them, the monsters are randomized. Be very careful opening them.
Of course, the teleport rune can be put on cooldown by stuns (and silence?), so it's not 100% reliable. Then again, after a while (and some inevitable deaths) you'll remember what vaults and monsters you can find in a particular location.
About the layouts: Small vaults usually have fixed monsters. IMHO the most dangerous is the vault with those four skeleton mages - they love to fire their Arcane Beam (or whatever is it called) simultaneously as their very first action for a massive nuke damage.
Large vaults are usually much tougher, and for a good part of them, the monsters are randomized. Be very careful opening them.
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Re: How do you approch vaults?
I used to always open them as I got to them, now I almost always open them. I have died from this habit many times, but it just feels like part of the challenge of an area to me.
Some aren't worth the risk of opening. You'll learn by dying to them or having to run away without loot every single time you do.
Some are too tedious to clear because of the number of stupid enemies crammed in them for the pissy loot you get. You'll learn by spending an hour clearing them with nothing worthwhile for your trouble.
Some are worth tiptoeing around, slowly fighting every tough and scary enemy until either you're victorious and get the sweet XP and loot, or have to run away screaming or die. Part of the fun is that trepidation.
Remember also that normal/adventure difficulty is quite lenient. You can get away with doing things that nightmare+/roguelike players might not consider worth the risk.
Some vaults are hard but not as bad as you've heard (e.g. I cleared the "room of death" on one character using my usual tactics before I learnt online that I wasn't meant to touch it). As long as you do them last, the worst case scenario is you lose a life and get sent back somewhere else.
Race is a factor here too because of XP penalty: if you're Cornac, you can skip every vault and level up nicely. If you're Thalore with 35% penalty, maybe you want to push through every bit of content in early-/mid-game so you can be levelled to face the main game challenges that ramp up later on, without doing even more risky things like Farportal grinding.
Some aren't worth the risk of opening. You'll learn by dying to them or having to run away without loot every single time you do.
Some are too tedious to clear because of the number of stupid enemies crammed in them for the pissy loot you get. You'll learn by spending an hour clearing them with nothing worthwhile for your trouble.
Some are worth tiptoeing around, slowly fighting every tough and scary enemy until either you're victorious and get the sweet XP and loot, or have to run away screaming or die. Part of the fun is that trepidation.
Remember also that normal/adventure difficulty is quite lenient. You can get away with doing things that nightmare+/roguelike players might not consider worth the risk.
Some vaults are hard but not as bad as you've heard (e.g. I cleared the "room of death" on one character using my usual tactics before I learnt online that I wasn't meant to touch it). As long as you do them last, the worst case scenario is you lose a life and get sent back somewhere else.
Race is a factor here too because of XP penalty: if you're Cornac, you can skip every vault and level up nicely. If you're Thalore with 35% penalty, maybe you want to push through every bit of content in early-/mid-game so you can be levelled to face the main game challenges that ramp up later on, without doing even more risky things like Farportal grinding.
Re: How do you approch vaults?
You can place an arcane eye into a vault, so this is one way to possibly see what is inside.
In general the "cautious" approach to dealing with vaults consists of opening and luring OUTSIDE the vault in conjunction with various escapes methods. Also you can teleport out of vaults but in general why fight in the vault at all? The only time fight in the vault is when they won't or can't get out (doors of some sort they can't/won't open etc).
If you have a good escape strategy and good tactical usage of the strategy you can deal with even highly overleveled vaults ok when you make good use of telepathy. In general even if you open something really high up with something you can't kill or is too dangerous to try you should be able to get away.
If you don't have good escapes, well get them. They are one of the three most important things to have.
In general the "cautious" approach to dealing with vaults consists of opening and luring OUTSIDE the vault in conjunction with various escapes methods. Also you can teleport out of vaults but in general why fight in the vault at all? The only time fight in the vault is when they won't or can't get out (doors of some sort they can't/won't open etc).
If you have a good escape strategy and good tactical usage of the strategy you can deal with even highly overleveled vaults ok when you make good use of telepathy. In general even if you open something really high up with something you can't kill or is too dangerous to try you should be able to get away.
If you don't have good escapes, well get them. They are one of the three most important things to have.
Re: How do you approch vaults?
I do vaults for the fun of it and do them pretty often. However honestly their loot sucks and is not worth it. Chests are far better.dukereg wrote:I used to always open them as I got to them, now I almost always open them. I have died from this habit many times, but it just feels like part of the challenge of an area to me.
Some aren't worth the risk of opening. You'll learn by dying to them or having to run away without loot every single time you do.
Some are too tedious to clear because of the number of stupid enemies crammed in them for the pissy loot you get. You'll learn by spending an hour clearing them with nothing worthwhile for your trouble.
Some are worth tiptoeing around, slowly fighting every tough and scary enemy until either you're victorious and get the sweet XP and loot, or have to run away screaming or die. Part of the fun is that trepidation.
Remember also that normal/adventure difficulty is quite lenient. You can get away with doing things that nightmare+/roguelike players might not consider worth the risk.
Some vaults are hard but not as bad as you've heard (e.g. I cleared the "room of death" on one character using my usual tactics before I learnt online that I wasn't meant to touch it). As long as you do them last, the worst case scenario is you lose a life and get sent back somewhere else.
Race is a factor here too because of XP penalty: if you're Cornac, you can skip every vault and level up nicely. If you're Thalore with 35% penalty, maybe you want to push through every bit of content in early-/mid-game so you can be levelled to face the main game challenges that ramp up later on, without doing even more risky things like Farportal grinding.