Regarding gold chests

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Herode_
Cornac
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:18 pm

Re: Regarding gold chests

#16 Post by Herode_ »

sharkantropo wrote:Whith unholy things you mean unique eternal bone guardians?! Because that thing prevented me weeks ago to achieve my first victory in Normal Adventure, so close.. at 5fth floor of high peak :cry:
No, I just mean the very powerful undead I usually awake when I open such coffins. Many rares and uniques, 10 lvls or so above my current character, mastering powerful spells or talents that torn me into pieced in a few turns.

In such cases, reliable means to flee far and safe are what I lack, either I don't have them or they are put under cooldown after some attack from foe.

Note that i'm trying a Temporal Warden at the moment (normal, roguelike) and all theses things, chests, coffins, vaults etc. seem easier than usual due to the many powerful escape tools this class can own. Not mentionning prospective tools like See the threads.
BTW, I'm under the impression that - until lvl 20 at least (that's where I am right now) this class is slightly OP...

@mikekchar : excellent post IMHO where you brilliantly summarize the tactics. Could help a lot of beginners : every mistake you point here, I made it. :mrgreen:
Hopefully, adventure mode makes learning less frustrating than it would have been if only roguelike mode was available.

sharkantropo
Low Yeek
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:10 pm

Re: Regarding gold chests

#17 Post by sharkantropo »

mikekchar wrote:Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think it's not so much a problem with opening chests as it is being able to deal with rares/uniques. On normal mode, I think you should be able to handle pretty much anything that comes out of a chest. Now, normally I am about 12th level before I hit any chests (or possibly 10th or 11th if I am using a race with a huge XP penalty, but then they are OP anyway). At that point, there are only a very few things that should present any problem.

To be honest, I used to have a great deal of difficulty, but now I look forward the worst that a chest can throw at me. I'm very disappointed if nothing pops out to fight. I'm ecstatic if I get a boss. Here are a few tips for dealing with them:

1) Inspect every rare/unique/boss and *read* the descriptions of any talents they have that you aren't familiar with.
2) Anytime you get a debuff on you, hover over it and *read* the description.

These 2 things will help you more than anything else. You may still die at first, but you can start recognizing the talents/debuffs that are going to be a problem and start to think of counter strategies.

3) If there is only one rare/unique/boss, stun/confuse or otherwise shut them down immediately. *Check* that you have succeeded by hovering over them. Keep them debilitated by keeping track of when their stun/confusion wears off and replace it with another debuff. Multiple opponents require a similar strategy but also requires that you move so that you can only be hit by one of them at a time.
4) Keep track of the number of talents that are likely on cool down on the rare/unique/boss. For example, stun puts 3 abilities on cool down for the duration of the stun. Keep track of which abilities have been used and hence are on cool down. Look at the list of talents that they have and decide whether you need to double up on debuffs (stun & confusion, 2 x stun, etc).

Normally at low levels a rare will only have a handful of talents and once you have them sort of perma-stunned they pose almost no risk.

5) Fight carefully and abuse whatever inability that a creature might have. Many times I have come up to a Jelly Berserker or something that can completely own me if I stand next to it. But even if I am a melee character, it's easy to keep distance from a Jelly and slowly whittle down its health.
6) Similarly *look* at the resistances your opponent has. Some monsters have 100% stun resistance. Trying to stun them is going to do absolutely nothing except probably get you killed.

It is very easy to get to a stage where you have gone 1 or 2 turns without paying attention and find yourself in a situation where you are just going to die. When fighting rares/uniques/bosses, you must *think* about every turn and pull every trick out of your bag.

7) Figure out a safety margin. For example, how much health do you need to feel 100% safe? How many debuffs can you tolerate? How much posion/disease, etc can you deal with. (Be very careful about diseases which lower your strength because if you are carrying lots of crap, you will be immobilized). Once you are below your safety margin, run away.
8) After you have run away, heal up and then scout out the situation again. If your opponent has healed up too, then chances are *you can not beat this opponent without dying*. If not, you might be able to take the "chop down the tree" approach and slowly take away health while frequently running away (although it is quite risky).
9) *Use* your tools to extend your safety margin. Wild infusions are *better* for reducing damage than for clearing debuffs. A 15-20% damage reduction means you can stand in there 20% more time. Similarly, thorny skin can often give you 7 turns where you will take very little damage. Shields will give you 4-5 turns. If your opponent is hitting you for 20 damage per turn, then popping a regeneration immediately can mean that you essentially suffer no damage (rather than waiting until you are already half dead).

Knowing when you are "safe" and being able to extend the time in the "safety zone" is key to chopping down opponents. Do *not* stick around when you get into the danger zone. Run away. Do *not* come back if you have very little chance of controlling the fight while in the "safety zone".

Finally

10) Practice. This requires you to be fine with sacrificing a few characters in order to get better, but you are going to anyway, so might as well do it on purpose. Get yourself to 12th level and then go hunting adventurer parties and ziguranth patrols. You get 2-4 rares in each go. I've done it so much now that I'm sure I only die once in every 20-30 attempts.

Hope that helps!
Many Thanks for your valuable and comprehensive response!!. I'll deffinitely practice that way with Mindslayers/Archmages . I Really want to get better and beat the game in roguelike and in harder difficulties.

Herode_ wrote:No, I just mean the very powerful undead I usually awake when I open such coffins. Many rares and uniques, 10 lvls or so above my current character, mastering powerful spells or talents that torn me into pieced in a few turns.

In such cases, reliable means to flee far and safe are what I lack, either I don't have them or they are put under cooldown after some attack from foe.

Note that i'm trying a Temporal Warden at the moment (normal, roguelike) and all theses things, chests, coffins, vaults etc. seem easier than usual due to the many powerful escape tools this class can own. Not mentionning prospective tools like See the threads.
BTW, I'm under the impression that - until lvl 20 at least (that's where I am right now) this class is slightly OP...
Indeed. Happened to me very few times, mostly because of poor vision and my escape route was not set well enough. Or overconfidence like mikekhar said about letting pass several turns before realize I was near death - I recently learned by experience that Is always mandatory to pay attention to your surroundings before take any turn after my character stops during autoexplore -.

I tried Temporal Warden until lvl 20. They are quite fun to play and have plenty of resources to escape or avoid damage but I prefer Mindslayer or Archmage, for the shield stuff. I like a gameplay which revolves around of efficient barrier management for protection rather than gargantuan HP and outstanding regens like the Fungus skillset offers. Wish I could avoid CON stat entirely but since that is not possible have to figure out means to rely less of HP.

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