Block mechanics

[Roghain]

I was wondering. I find myself running a bulwark for the first time and I am wondering what exactly is the block mechanic. Somehow I believe I am missing something and a first search on this topic netted me zilch - or nothing I found properly explaining how block works.

Here's what I think.

I am adjacent to an opponent. I activate block (and that costs a turn). In the info icons tot he right I sometimes see 'Block 1' duration and sometimes 'Block 2' but I am buggered if I understand why this differs. I suppose it could be caused by the exact place in the turn ordr I activate it, but that's way beyond my knowledge.

Now, my defence gets dropped to zero so I don't get missed (One wants to get hit to get the benefits).
If, while the block is active as indicated in the icons to the right, I get hit (I reckon that's a given with defence at zero?) but the block 'absorbs' all damage, the attacker gets the 'counterattack' status and if I hit this so marked opponent, I do extra damage depending on stats and talents. The counterattack status I have seen lasting 3 turns, dunno if it can be longer.

So, continuing this line of thought, I activate block (lose a turn to activate), then DO NOTHING (lose another turn) until opponent(s) attack me and hopefully get the 'counterattack' status, then attack these opponent. But, I feel this is odd - I lose two turns this way and as a ghoul bulwark at -20% global speed, I can not afford to lose turns. So... I reckon my understanding of the mechanic is wrong, but as I understand it, while I am blocking, if I move or attack myself (use any talent except the one that states 'does not break block'), the block is cancelled and the counterattack mechanic cannot be used.

This kinda sorta feels wrong.

Could anyone enlighten me as to how block actually works, please?

And if it works as above, I would think that setting block to autocast on 'enemy adjacent' is useless?

[Effigy]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure this is how it works.

When you activate Block, it uses your current turn and gives you the Block effect for 1 turn. If someone hits you while you have the Block effect, it will negate physical damage from the attack equal to the "block rating" of your shield. You can see the block rating in parentheses in the shield's title, or it shows as a separate stat in the item description if you have block talents from Shield Offense (maybe other talent trees too, but I'm not sure). If your block rating is greater than or equal to the blocked attack's damage, then you take no damage and the enemy gets the Counterattack effect, making the next hit against them do double damage.

There are several talents that affect block mechanics, so that might be why you saw your Block lasting 2 turns or whatever. The Riposte skill from Shield Offense can make the Counterattack effect last longer and trigger even if you don't block all of the attack's damage. Also note that if your shield has resists, it can block those types of damage in addition to physical damage. So a shield with 12% fire resist can block both fire and physical damage. I don't think the amount of %resist actually matters, it just uses your shield's block rating to determine how much damage is blocked. This is why getting multiple resistances on shields is so useful.

Finally, there are 2 prodigies that affect blocking. Spectral Shield lets you block all damage types, regardless of what resists your shield has. Eternal Guard makes your Block effect last 2 turns. Eternal Guard also says it makes your Block not end when hit, but I don't think Block actually ends after 1 hit anyway. I think that wording is just to clarity that it lasts the full 2 turns. If you didn't know, you get a prodigy at levels 30 and 42.

Regarding "losing turns" from blocking, it really depends. Think of it this way: if you use one turn to activate Block, then do a counterattack the next round, you got one round of protection but you still essentially got two attacks (due to double damage). To make the most of block, you need to learn to anticipate when you're going to be getting hit so you don't end up wasting a turn blocking with no payoff. Having a different speed than your enemies (either faster or slower) can make it harder to sync your block activation with enemy attacks. If you take the Eternal Guard prodigy, blocking becomes much more efficient since you only "waste" 1 turn but get 2 turns of protection (and counterattacks).

[Atarlost]

I was wondering. I find myself running a bulwark for the first time and I am wondering what exactly is the block mechanic. Somehow I believe I am missing something and a first search on this topic netted me zilch - or nothing I found properly explaining how block works.

Here's what I think.

I am adjacent to an opponent. I activate block (and that costs a turn). In the info icons tot he right I sometimes see 'Block 1' duration and sometimes 'Block 2' but I am buggered if I understand why this differs. I suppose it could be caused by the exact place in the turn ordr I activate it, but that's way beyond my knowledge.

Yes, this is why you sometimes get different durations. This happens because, as you mentioned in your other thread, you're running a ghoul. If you didn't have a global speed adjustment your turns would almost always line up with engine turns and you wouldn't notice a discrepancy.

Now, my defence gets dropped to zero so I don't get missed (One wants to get hit to get the benefits).
If, while the block is active as indicated in the icons to the right, I get hit (I reckon that's a given with defence at zero?) but the block 'absorbs' all damage, the attacker gets the 'counterattack' status and if I hit this so marked opponent, I do extra damage depending on stats and talents. The counterattack status I have seen lasting 3 turns, dunno if it can be longer.

Pretty much yes. You do double damage on counterattacks. The Riposte skill boosts your crit rate. Also, if you have the riposte skill the enemy gets the counterattack debuff even if they deal more damage than your shield can block. I think Riposte may effect the counterattack duration, but it pretty much never matters because it ends when you hit the enemy once (twice with riposte or thrice with riposte at 4).

So, continuing this line of thought, I activate block (lose a turn to activate), then DO NOTHING (lose another turn) until opponent(s) attack me and hopefully get the 'counterattack' status, then attack these opponent. But, I feel this is odd - I lose two turns this way and as a ghoul bulwark at -20% global speed, I can not afford to lose turns. So... I reckon my understanding of the mechanic is wrong, but as I understand it, while I am blocking, if I move or attack myself (use any talent except the one that states 'does not break block'), the block is cancelled and the counterattack mechanic cannot be used.

This kinda sorta feels wrong.

It is wrong. Nothing breaks block. At least not in 2.2.5. You "lose" only one turn and get one to three (depending on your riposte skill) double damage attacks later unless nothing attacks that can be blocked that you can counterattack. Also, counterattack applies to all weapon attacks. You can counterattack with not just a bump attack but an attack talent like shield bash, an attack that uses a ranged weapon (a sling or, with the quick hands prodigy possibly a bow) or a projected melee attack from a weapon of projection or the wave of power paladin talent. You can also block not just melee attacks but any attack that does physical damage or damage that your shield gives resistance to. For example you can block against an archer at range and counterattack with Rush. On the other side of the coin there are enemies that attack in melee with nonphysical damage, most notably dragons and block may not work against them. With the Spectral Shield prodigy you can block everything except damage over time effects. Also note that activated talents often use up more than one attack. Assault, for example, will make three and if you only have Riposte high enough to give two counterattacks only the first two attacks will be doubled and the last two are the automatic criticals so level up riposte until it gives three counterattacks.

Because without Riposte you only get one counterattack and only on complete blocks, it is not advisable to use the block skill without it.

I would not suggest putting block on auto-use. It will function, but against enemies that do not attack with physical damage or that you can kill in one turn without the riposte benefits it will waste a turn. Mage type enemies often fall into both categories.

[twas Brillig]

With the Spectral Shield prodigy you can block everything except damage over time effects.

Thanks for clearing up some stuff I wasn't clear on (even after a long, block-heavy game...), but I want to add that you can block damage over time. I'm guessing Eternal Guard is required in order to block damage even while being wailed on by who knows what.

Also, because I definitely didn't realize this before it was time to pick prodigies, Eternal Guard really can mean eternal. Block has a variable cooldown based on talent level, as controlled by your shield. At level 5 (and maybe earlier?), block has a cooldown 1 turn longer than you can hold a block. With Eternal Guard raising the block duration (and not breaking block when you take a hit), you can block everything as long as nothing strips the block effect or puts your block talent on cooldown.

[Effigy]

Level 5 Block has a 3 turn cooldown, so unless you're getting a cooldown reduction somewhere I don't think you can keep blocking indefinitely. With Eternal Guard you can block two-thirds of the time since it lasts 2 turns with a 3 turn cooldown.

[Roghain]

Right. That helps a bunch gentlebeings.

Continuing my bulwark escapades, the 'shield slam' talent mentions that:

"(...) then return to a blocking position. This bonus block will not check or trigger block cooldown"

The 'return to' part made me believe that shield slam could only be efectively used while blocking (otherwise, there would be no blocking position to return to. Then, the 'bonus block' part makes me think it actually offers a block besides the normal use of block.

See - this game has so much more than one thinks in advance

This day I got 97 hours in and got cursed for the first time, opening a whole new cool talent thing. It keeps surprising me.

[HousePet]

You will occasionally see effects with durations 1 turn higher than expected.
This is because the game grants the effect at the start of your turn at one turn longer than the duration specified. The duration is decremented at the end of your turn.
So when it says 1 turn, it really means this turn and the next one.

[Red]

So a bug report was just filed about block having some weird tooltips involving damage like manaburn.

Does anyone know if you actually can block things like manaburn damage, or is it just actual damage?

[HousePet]

Block (and resistances) only work on the basic damage elements.

[Roghain]

It is wrong. Nothing breaks block.

That changed a lot for me. Used to be I blocked, then waited to GET attacked (and see the pink '+counter' float from the intended victim), then attack or use shieldbash or whathaveyou, thinking that any action afore 'triggering' counterattack would stop my blocking.

Feel kinda silly, I never checked, just assumed.

So.... I could potentially even move while blocking? Block an arrow, rush (or in my case, ghoul-leap) up close and personal and counterattack. This offers more potential than I figured.

Thanks!

[twas Brillig]

Continuing my bulwark escapades, the 'shield slam' talent mentions that:

"(...) then return to a blocking position. This bonus block will not check or trigger block cooldown"

The 'return to' part made me believe that shield slam could only be efectively used while blocking (otherwise, there would be no blocking position to return to. Then, the 'bonus block' part makes me think it actually offers a block besides the normal use of block.

Sorry if you've figured this out (I'm not sure whether you're asking a question here): shield slam gives you the blocking effect, and does not require you to already be blocking. Someone on chat yesterday was wondering about what the right amount of detail was in a talent description--this is one of those cases where too much (fluff in "return to") causes some problems.

It is wrong. Nothing breaks block.

That changed a lot for me. Used to be I blocked, then waited to GET attacked (and see the pink '+counter' float from the intended victim), then attack or use shieldbash or whathaveyou, thinking that any action afore 'triggering' counterattack would stop my blocking.

Feel kinda silly, I never checked, just assumed.

So.... I could potentially even move while blocking? Block an arrow, rush (or in my case, ghoul-leap) up close and personal and counterattack. This offers more potential than I figured.

Thanks!

Depending on whether you have riposte (and thus how long the counterattack status lasts), yeah. Just remember that shieldbash is two hits with your shield and not your weapon, only the first of which will be doubled by counterattack (depending on your rank in riposte @_@).

[Effigy]

Yeah, Shield Slam is a 3-hit attack that also gives you the Block effect. You don't need to block before using it. Whether you get the Block effect before or after executing the attacks as the description implies would be a question for the source-delvers though. It would only matter in rare situations, like if you see an arrow flying toward you that hasn't hit you yet when you use Shield Slam.

[Lyoncet]

On the topic of Shield Slam fluff text, wouldn't substituting "assume" for "return to" clear it up while keeping the fluff intact?