Shaman - A new take on Wilders

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mromnious
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Shaman - A new take on Wilders

#1 Post by mromnious »

So far this is just in the concept stage to see if people follow my logic for this and would like to play this class before I start putting some real hours into this.

Basically, I wanted to have a Wilder class that reminded me of the Shamans of WoW: They can have vastly different roles depending on how you build them. So, in that sense, I wanted to make a class where you pick two out of three things you want to excel in and go from there: Melee, totems (basically summons), or direct spells.

Let me know what you think! If I'm not the only one that likes this I'll start coding it in my free time. I don't think the talents are anything particularly new or mindblowing to code, but I think the varied builds could make this one attractive to people.

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Shaman
The shaman connects to nature in their own unique way, utilizing infused totems, staves, or otherwise to harness the elements rather than a draconic or animalistic method. This is by no means easy; each shaman must find their own way to commune with nature through these tools and hone their own unique wild-gifts.
Strength +3
Constitution +2
Willpower +4

CLASS TALENTS

Wild-gift / Waterweave 1.2x (Mindpower-based cold gifts. WIL)
- Geyser Burst: Single target cold damage and small fireburn. Causes Wet.
- Splash: Multi-hit melee AoE cold damage. Causes Wet.
- Osmosis: Fire/cold resistance sustain that can be toggled off for an instant heal.
- Icy Rain: AoE cold damage. Causes Wet and Slow.

Wild-gift / Stormcall 1.2x (Mindpower-based lightning and cold gifts. WIL)
- Gust: Cold and lightning damage in a cone with knockback. Freezes Wet enemies.
- Fog Ring: Defense sustain that can be toggled off for a burst of AoE lightning damage and daze. When sustained, also allows you to breathe underwater.
- Static Discharge: Melee-range massive lightning damage with knockback and daze.
- Chain Lightning: Iconic! Single-target lightning damage that jumps between X targets. Small damage reduction with each jump. Any Wet targets take extra damage and are dazed.

Wild-gift / Earthraise 1.2x (Mindpower-based physical and nature gifts. WIL)
- Boulder Crack: Physical projectile that stuns.
- Stranglevine: Single-target pin that deals nature DoT. Wet targets take extra damage.
- Fertile Soil: Life regen sustain that can be toggled off for a burst of AoE nature damage. Wet targets are slowed.
- Split Earth: AoE spell that deals large physical damage.

NOTE ABOUT TOTEMS: You are allowed one totem of each type at once. Works similarly to Moss.

Wild-gift / Grace totems 1.2x (Mindpower-based "summons" that deal damage over time and buff or heal allies in an area. WIL)
- Clinging Moss Totem: Deals nature damage each turn to enemies and provides armor and healing factor to allies in the area for seven turns.
- Cleansing Pool Totem: Deals cold damage to enemies and heals and relieves poison for allies each turn for seven turns.
- Fresh Air Totem: Deals lightning damage to enemies and relieves status effects for allies each turn for seven turns.
- War Torch Totem: Deals fire damage to enemies each turn and provides a bonus to all damage and Accuracy for allies in the area for seven turns.

Wild-gift / Shamanistic rage 1.3x (Dual-wield melee techniques. Requires conventional weapons. STR)
- Shaman's Wrath: Passively allows the user to dual-wield any one-handed weapons. A sustain that deals random fire, cold, lightning, or nature damage on each melee attack.
- Hammer Blow: Physical damage and stun for X turns with your mainhand weapon, random fire/cold/lightning/nature damage with your offhand. Mainhand damage scales with physical power while offhand damage scales with mindpower.
- Planetary Invocation: Slam your weapons into the ground and deal physical damage in an area as well as fire, cold, lightning, or nature randomly. Reduces your equilibrium for each target hit.
- Force of Nature: Charge into an enemy up to four spaces away, dealing large damage with your mainhand weapon and increasing all damage resistance based on your mindpower for X turns.

Technique / Combat techniques 1.0x (Existing category. STR)

LOCKED CLASS TALENTS

Wild-gift / Wrath totems 1.2x (Mindpower-based "summons" that deal damage on arrival and debuff enemies in an area. WIL)
- Totemcraft: Your totems become more potent, increasing their radius and duration passively.
- Rushing Waters Totem: Cold damage on arrival, then cold damage and Wet every turn for seven turns.
- Sudden Storm Totem: Lightning damage on arrival, then cold damage and slow every turn for seven turns.
- Volcanic Burst Totem: Flameshock (short stun) damage on arrival, then fire damage every turn for seven turns.

Wild-gift / Flamedance 1.2x (Mindpower-based fire gifts. WIL)
- Magma Lash: Deal fire damage in a beam, hardening on impact with Wet enemies and pinning them.
- Evaporation: Passively, any time you dispel Wet on an enemy, deal an extra instance of fire damage. Also passively increases your mental critical chance.
- Living Lantern: Small AoE fire damage and light radius sustain that can be toggled off for a flash of blinding light damage.
- Primal Fire: The fires that originally forged the earth return! Deal massive AoE fire damage around you, leaving a burning field in its wake. You also are tempered by the flames, healing from any fire damage you take for six turns. However, the destruction is so great you are momentarily disconnected from nature, putting all your Wild-gifts on cooldown for four turns.

Wild-gift / Stormhammer 1.3x (Dual-wield melee techniques. Requires conventional weapons. STR)
- War Drum: Hit a melee target twice with each of your weapons. The rhythmic thunderclap of your weapons inspires you, reducing the cooldowns of your totems by X.
- Distant Thunder: Throw your mainhand and offhand weapon at a single target. Each impact deals lightning damage and reduces the cooldown of a random Stormhammer talent by 1.
- Storm Brewing: After a physical critical, your next Icy Rain, Chain Lightning, or Split Earth take no time to cast and deal 25% extra damage. This can only happen once every ten turns.
- Natural Disaster: Become a walking maelstrom, threatening all in your path. Move 25% faster and deal 25% weapon damage around you every time you attack. Sustained talent.

GENERIC TALENTS

Wild-gift / Shaman discipline 1.2x (Passives that aid shaman talents. WIL)
- Stone Soul: Increases spell save, mental save, and physical resistance passively.
- Honed by Earth: Increases strength, constitution, and willpower. At talent level 5, increases your size category by 1. 
- Second Nature: Any time you are in the area of a totem's effects, your equilibrium is reduced by X each turn.
- Elemental Bond: Increases fire, cold, lightning, and nature resistances passively. Additionally, mental criticals reduce your equilibrium by X.

Technique / Combat training 1.0x (Existing category. STR)
Wild-gift / Call of the wild 1.3x (Existing category. WIL)
Wild-gift / Harmony 1.2x (Existing category. WIL)

LOCKED GENERIC TALENTS

Wild-gift / Mindstar mastery 1.0x (Existing category. WIL)
Wild-gift / Antimagic 1.0x (Existing category. WIL)
Technique / Thuggery 1.0x (Existing category. STR)
I think the locked category choices I made make it a lot more difficult to just do everything with the class at once. Still on the fence about Thuggery, but I want a strength unlock for Generic that makes sense with a melee build.

If Darkgod wants it, I guess it'll come to pass eventually! I'll keep everyone updated. :D
Last edited by mromnious on Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:44 am, edited 3 times in total.

Jarinex
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Re: Shaman - A new take on Wilders

#2 Post by Jarinex »

Looks awesome! I'm always looking for new classes to play (or at least download and never try out), but I like what I'm seeing so far. I used to play a Shaman back in my WoW days, so I would totally play this class.

darkgod
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Re: Shaman - A new take on Wilders

#3 Post by darkgod »

Looks fun but why using magic on a wilder ? One that even can learn antimagic ! :)
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Razakai
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Re: Shaman - A new take on Wilders

#4 Post by Razakai »

One obvious thing that I'd add would be a Maelstrom Weapon style talent (or entire tree). That would allow you to combine magic/melee better rather than having it be disconnected. Also, I'd make this entirely Mindpower rather than Spellpower, Spellpower doesn't make sense thematically or mechanically.

Radon26
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Re: Shaman - A new take on Wilders

#5 Post by Radon26 »

darkgod wrote:Looks fun but why using magic on a wilder ? One that even can learn antimagic ! :)
BLIGHTED SUMMONING FTW!!!

it is nice to have a wielder, that actually can use it.
sure there are necromancers, and other classes with pets, but really, wielders seam really good at sumoning, and yet you can't put a prodigy into it really. well, you can, if you go out of your way to do it, but it is not as "natural" as windblade is for rogues.

edit.
uh...
i loked at the talents again.
yes, he uses magic, but in the wrong places. why are totems will based?

mromnious
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Re: Shaman - A new take on Wilders

#6 Post by mromnious »

Oh geez, darkgod! :shock:

@Razakai: I like that idea, actually. I was sort of toiling over how to make a melee build "make sense" and I think I'll brainstorm one up at some point today. Probably make it critical-based like in WoW.

My original intent behind allowing access to Antimagic is that I wanted to make this class available in Embers of Rage, so they would have a class that could be antimagic available to them. Though I suppose if you have the ignore unlocks addon you could just play oozemancer for that, haha.

As for the mindpower/spellpower thing, I see what you guys are saying. Basically I wanted to limit the ability to just pick everything and use every talent effectively, but I guess talent points are a pretty good limiting factor too, huh? :lol:

I'll rewrite some stuff and come up with an updated post today. Though I will say since darkgod is on board I guess I should start putting some of the hard labor in soon!

Razakai
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Re: Shaman - A new take on Wilders

#7 Post by Razakai »

The best way to limit build options would probably be to gate things via locked trees. Have the unlocked act as a base, and have locked trees contain the build defining talents. So if your vision is of them choosing between melee, totems and caster, have a locked tree for each that contains a very powerful sustain/passive enhancing all the effects.

For example, you could make all your spells relatively weak scaling wise. Then have the locked melee tree grant a Maelstrom talent letting you cast instant spells via melee attacks, whereas the caster tree has a talent massively increasing your spell damage, but it doesn't work with Maelstrom procced spells. So players have the choice between melee+spells or a more caster build.
Another way is tying them to weapon types. So the melee tree could only work with regular weapons, whereas the caster tree works with mindstars.

Also, I'd cut Acid Rain. Fire/nature/cold/phys/lightning is already quite a range of elements without Acid too. I'd potentially even cut the nature damage and replace it with physical or other elements, so they'd effectively build like a Mindslayer.

mromnious
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Re: Shaman - A new take on Wilders

#8 Post by mromnious »

Thanks everyone for the feedback again! Your suggestions have been really helpful. I've tweaked some things around. Keep on posting in this thread and letting me know what you think this needs... I'm going to start the hard work now! :)

HousePet
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Re: Shaman - A new take on Wilders

#9 Post by HousePet »

Just ignore DarkGod. I've got a spellpower using caster wilder class in Verdant.
My feedback meter decays into coding. Give me feedback and I make mods.

MilesTiden
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Re: Shaman - A new take on Wilders

#10 Post by MilesTiden »

darkgod wrote:Looks fun but why using magic on a wilder ? One that even can learn antimagic ! :)
*ahem*

*points to undead drake mastery*

astralInferno
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Re: Shaman - A new take on Wilders

#11 Post by astralInferno »

To be fair, wyrmics don't get antimagic at birth.

it would seem fine for their talents to scale with magic, but, as stated, they can't have /spell/ talents or zigur and antimagic will burn them at the stake.

Razakai
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Re: Shaman - A new take on Wilders

#12 Post by Razakai »

The issue was more that it was both Mindpower and Spellpower in different trees. Makes it quite hard to build and gear. Undead Drake scales with either Mind or Spellpower (except for the breath which nobody seems to take).

Plus the Shaman thing is communing with elements etc, so I think thematically it makes more sense for it to just be Mindpower.

mromnious
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Re: Shaman - A new take on Wilders

#13 Post by mromnious »

So here I am planning a bunch of skills that interact with the Wet effect, but I have no idea where in the code Wet interacts with existing spells so I'm having a hard time basing anything off of that. Am I better off just writing a new Effect specifically for these spells?

nsrr
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Re: Shaman - A new take on Wilders

#14 Post by nsrr »

mromnious wrote:So here I am planning a bunch of skills that interact with the Wet effect, but I have no idea where in the code Wet interacts with existing spells so I'm having a hard time basing anything off of that. Am I better off just writing a new Effect specifically for these spells?
You should be fine using the standard Wet effect. Your talents will just need to check if the target has the Wet effect:

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...if target:hasEffect(target.EFF_WET) then ...

If you're looking for good examples of how to make addons work well with any standard ToME stuff I would suggest digging into Embers, if you have it. There are actually several Steam tech talents that interact with Wet, in fact. Any add on can be unzipped by changing .teaa to .zip.

Also, any time you have a question do not hesitate to jump into the ToME irc channel. It's #tome @rizon irc. Here's a direct mibbit link: https://client01.chat.mibbit.com/#tome@irc.rizon.net . Several add on developers and ToME developers idle there and are always more than happy to help.

I'm also a fan of this idea, by the way. A couple suggestions: As far as limiting build options, I would agree with Raz and go further to recommend that you have two base categories for each (spells, totems or weapons) and one locked for each. For the spells I would just recommend consolidating the base categories and probably cutting out the acid damage and either physical or nature. Having one tree based around cold and nature and the other around fire and lightning might be a good divide so the spells that cause Wet and those that interact with it are in separate trees. For low level melee a tree that includes something like Lightning shield and the Shamans weapon enchants(Windfury, etc) would be cool, along with a tree that has a couple weapon attacks (all the good standard ToME dual-wield talents are Dex based, so some Str based weapon damage skills wouldn't hurt). For the high level melee tree, I'd go with Raz's suggestion of having a tree that allows weapon hits to proc spells or trigger a free, instant casts. For the high level totems I would recommend elemental summons such as high level Shamans can get.
Also, you could set limitations on armor by having a high level spell sustain that requires light or cloth, basically eliminating any reason for a caster build to pump Str.
Last edited by nsrr on Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Razakai
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Re: Shaman - A new take on Wilders

#15 Post by Razakai »

I presume you mean stuff like your talents that deal additional damage vs wet targets etc. For the Water/Ice trees, these get handled in the damage types. For example, Glacial Vapour:

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newDamageType{
	name = "glacial vapour", type = "GLACIAL_VAPOUR", text_color = "#1133F3#",
	projector = function(src, x, y, type, dam, state)
		state = initState(state)
		useImplicitCrit(src, state)
		local chance = 0
		local target = game.level.map(x, y, Map.ACTOR)
		if target and target:hasEffect(target.EFF_WET) then dam = dam * 1.3 chance = 15 end
		local realdam = DamageType:get(DamageType.COLD).projector(src, x, y, DamageType.COLD, dam, state)
		if rng.percent(chance) then
			DamageType:get(DamageType.FREEZE).projector(src, x, y, DamageType.FREEZE, {dur=2, hp=70+dam*1.2}, state)
		end
		return realdam
	end,
}
This is typically done on a spell-by-spell basis so you'd need your own damage types. Or just call the effect directly in the talent. For example, Boiling Shot which consumes Wet for a fire burst:

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newTalent{
	name = "Boiling Shot",
	type = {"steamtech/psytech-gunnery", 2},
	points = 5,
	cooldown = 8,
	steam = 25,
	psi = 15,
	is_psyshot = true,
	require = dex_steamreq2,
	no_energy = "fake",
	range = steamgun_range,
	requires_target = true,
	tactical = { ATTACK = { weapon = 2 } },
	on_pre_use = function(self, t, silent) if not self:hasArcheryWeapon("steamgun") then if not silent then game.logPlayer(self, "You require a steamgun for this talent.") end return false end return true end,
	getSplash = function(self, t) return self:combatTalentSteamDamage(t, 20, 400) end,
	getDam = function(self, t) return self:combatTalentWeaponDamage(t, 0.8, 2) end,
	archery_onhit = function(self, t, target, x, y)
		if target:hasEffect(target.EFF_WET) then
			target:removeEffect(target.EFF_WET)
			self:project({type="ball", radius=4, friendlyfire=false, start_x=x, start_y=y}, x, y, DamageType.FIRE, self:steamCrit(t.getSplash(self, t)))
			game.level.map:particleEmitter(x, y, 4, "fireflash", {radius=4})
		end
	end,
	action = function(self, t)
		local targets = self:archeryAcquireTargets()
		if not targets then return end
		self:archeryShoot(targets, t, nil, {mult=t.getDam(self, t)})
		return true
	end,
	info = function(self, t)
		return ([[Using psionic energies you overheat your shot, making it deal %d%% damage.
		If the shot hits a wet foe it will vaporize, removing the wet effect and dealing %0.2f fire damage in a radius 4.]]):format(100 * t.getDam(self, t), damDesc(self, DamageType.FIRE, t.getSplash(self, t)))
	end,
}

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