Forge Knight

[Dao Zeti]

Forge Knight

The basic idea behind the class of the Forge Knight is that of armor and weapon crafting. While item manipulation is already part of the game in form of some talents like Stone Alchemy's Imbue item or Finer energy manipulations' Reshape Weapon/Armour, class talents of the Forge Knight go one step further and allow the recreation of a piece of armour (body, helm, shield) or weapon (metallic, non-archery). The underlying crafting process is pretty simple: an existing item is being used as raw material for the creation of a new item of the same basic type and subtype. The original item is being consumed during the crafting process. Crafted items are initially basic items (white display colour) enhanced by certain bonuses like combat damage or armour and defense values. The development of passive talents allows for a broader spectrum of enhancements on the crafted weapon. Eventually, a Forge Knight learns to craft items with innate extra properties, like a developed ego (green/blue/violett display-colours) and powerful talents, which the Forge Knight gains access to while wielding the crafted item .

In addition to two talent types dedicated to crafting (weapons, armours), the Forge Knight gets two additional unique talent types (class, generic) covering combat and passives, as well as several talent types from those normally available to members of the warrior classtree.

The class idea was partly inspired by the concept of the Enchanter class in Arcanum from House Pet, which I had alot of fun with, and the desire to build a variation of a smith-class, which doesn't exist so far in Maj'Eyal. The end result resembles more something like the Iron Man, as the class can become pretty strong in the later levels (high armor, high resists, high attack) and might need to be toned down a bit. Not sure about that, yet.

Major Overhaul: Taking grayswandirs advice to heart, I made most talents at low talent levels worth it and also added talents, which can be learned from crafted items (as long as they are being wielded).


Addendum:

- Fixed compatibility with grayswandirs weapons pack: alternative damage modificators are now enhanced too.
- Bonuses now scale with ego-multipliers: Two Handed Weapons get slightly better bonuses, daggers slightly worse.
- Added/changed on-hit-talents.


Reduced Abuse:

- any antimagic item that is being used for forging will result in forged items with an antimagic powersource
- if reforging uniques, that are infused by arcane powers, the reforged unique will also be infused by arcane powers
- all forged items are now considered being either egoed (green, blue, violet display colour) or rare (brown display colour)
- points invested into the talent trees of armor and weapon forging can't be redistributed afterwards anymore (no 'respeccing' in towns)

Revision:

- removed access to regular shield/dualwielding/2handed-talent-trees from the Forge Knight
- added two new talent trees, that cover combat skills that work regardless if you fight using a shield, dualwielding or with a twohanded weapon (albeit with different effects)
- added the ability to switch weapon sets without spending a turn, so Forge Knights can make most use of all the weapons they are able to craft, depending on situation

Refine & Restore:

- Refine Items: Learning or putting a point into the talents "Armour Forging" or "Weapon Forging" gives access to a skill, that lets you upgrade your forged items towards your current skill level in the different talents of the forge group. Only properties that were put onto a forged item via the forge-skill previously will be affected and only items that have been forged after this patch can be refined.
- Restore Artifact: Learning or putting a point into the talents "Artifact Armor Design" or "Artifact Weapon Forging" gives access to a skill, which lets you reverse forging on an unique item of lore (golden display colour) once - to recover the original artefact. Only artefacts reforged after this patch can be restored.
- Fixed an error that would come up if forging items "of the deep".

Forbid Nature / Arcane:

- If you are too distant to nature (e.g. undead), you won't forge items which grant you wild-gift-talents anymore (unless you forge items powered by antimagic forces).
- If you are a follower of zigur, you won't craft items which grant you spellbased-talents anymore.
- Distribution of cd-reductions and talent-masteries on items hasn't been changed and stays completely random


Refinement Fix (17.12.):

- Fixed an issue, where after refining an equiped weapon or armor some properties (like resists) wouldn't be registered properly
- Power Catalyst: Mind now helps you regaining lost equilibrium when resting


Small Fix (15.01.2015):
- Prevention measure related to a reported lua error

Fix weapons_of_projection (24.01.2015):
- forged weapons with the ego "of projection" should now cooldown properly
- no more lua errors incase you you have a weapon without material level (tier definition) in your inventory

[NemesisZeru]

Ooh...sounds interesting! I always thought Enchanters were an interesting idea, so a more...tech-y version seems like it'll be fun. C:


Edit: Looking at the vault, the "basic" In Artifact Armor Design is mispelled as baisc. Just figured I'd mention it.

[Dao Zeti]

Thank you for the notice!

[grayswandir]

I played a character up through 16-ish, pretty much maxing out the weapon tree. Really rather interesting. (Haven't tried enchanter yet.)

Kinda tired right now, so I'm not sure how coherent this'll be.


The main thing is that, the way you set up the talents, the power curve is too steep. Once you max out the weapon tree, you can grab most any artifact and make it stronger. Until then though, you might be better off just using the artifacts themselves - and that isn't terribly fun. I'd suggest you'd shift the "keep stuff on the original item" stuff towards the start of the tree, and move the straight-out bonuses to the end of the tree. Furthermore, I think it'd be beneficial to have some effect that's set up like stone alchemy, where the only thing points in the talent does is affect what tier equipment it can use. That way you don't feel as compelled to build just that tree before you reforge something, but you still have to put points in it over the long run.

So, basically:
Weapon Forging: Reforge any weapon of tier <talent level> or less, or any artifact weapon of tier <talent level - 1> or less. Increases weapon damage by X% (based on dex only, not talent level). Higher tier weapons may be reforged, but there's an X% chance of losing each special property that weapon has.
Maybe have the level requirements be 0/6/12/18/24 ?




Accurate Forging seems weak to me.

For the bonus damage on hit, to make it better at low levels I'd have the amount scale with the item tier (and your stats) instead of the talent level. Talent level can affect the number. (Every odd level gives +damage on hit, every even gives +% damage?).

You should probably respect ego multiplier for the damage bonuses (daggers get 70%, 2handers 120%). I get the feeling that a dual-dagger guy will be really strong once they unlock flurry.

On that note, all the extra damage on hit + talent procs on hit + flurry + GWF will be absolutely insane, I think. Which might be fine, considering they don't get many actives in the first place.

For the artifact thing - how about coming up with your own (active) talents instead of making them chances to proc with? So your sword could end up teaching you +1 Flame Strike and +1 Behead while you have it equipped. This would give the class more actives while still keeping the focus on the equipment.

[HousePet]

You should probably respect ego multiplier for the damage bonuses (daggers get 70%, 2handers 120%). I get the feeling that a dual-dagger guy will be really strong once they unlock flurry.

I should do that too...

[Dao Zeti]

Thanks alot for that detailed input, grayswandir. Your suggestions are very sound and I agree with your point about the power curve. I'll probably rework the talent types a bit alongside of your considerations, especially the tier-limit and early options to transfer item-related properties from egoed items seems to be a necessity. Relating scaling only to stats is also a wonderful idea, which takes some pressure from having to put in all points during the early game.

I am not too fond of putting extra "learn_talent_x" on crafted items however, as the skillbar tends to get clustered by so many skills from items during the later stages of the game anyway.

Edit: actually, the skillbar of Forge Knights leaves enough room for talents temporary learned from items, so I went with your idea. Haven't limited daggers much yet, its on the agenda though. Thanks again for the nice feedback.

[jayseesee]

Awesome concept, been loving what little I've played.

I don't see Dagger's getting the extra stat bonuses when reforged. Other weapons are getting the additional stat modifiers, however, including add-on weapons (Whips, Spears, Sword-breakers, Rapiers). Vanilla daggers, still 45/45.

Would be interesting to see bow/arrow/sling/stones doable, but not metal so doesn't quite work, even if stats might. Same with Mindstars & Staves. Pipedreams for now. Maybe a different subclass, especially as stats don't fit

[Dao Zeti]

I don't see Dagger's getting the extra stat bonuses when reforged. Other weapons are getting the additional stat modifiers, however, including add-on weapons (Whips, Spears, Sword-breakers, Rapiers). Vanilla daggers, still 45/45.

Could it be that you are using the weapon-pack addon? Daggers have an alternative damage modificator there (so that cunning/dexterity is being used instead of strength/dexterity), which is why any changes being made to the original modificator won't be registered neither by the tooltip-info nor the combat-code.

[jayseesee]

Correct I am. May be the issue there. Though it's Str/Dex showing for me rather than Cun/Dex on them. /shrug.

Also, another minor thing. I got a 1 hander with "Sunder Armor" on hit which requires a 2 hander.

[grayswandir]

I believe I made the alternate damage modifiers an option. Try looking for it under Game Options?

Edit: Also, if you want to adjust your code so that it routes through something like object:addDammod('str', 0.2) or something, I could detect that in weapons pack and superload it, or something.

[Dao Zeti]

Edit: Also, if you want to adjust your code so that it routes through something like object:addDammod('str', 0.2) or something, I could detect that in weapons pack and superload it, or something.

I adjusted the talent code, so that it checks if combat.alt_dammod exists - and if it does, it directly increases those accordingly. Seems to work flawlessly.

Also, I removed Sunder Arms from the on hit talentlist, and Forging now scales most bonuses with ego-multiplicator, making 2hander more powerful, daggers slightly less. Uploading the new version soonish.

[gibsonferna]

Speaking with bonuses it is where when a player don't get bored and tired and thus he will be inspired to go on and on.

______________
I just wonder, why men likes to carry automatic knives.

[Scol]

I love this addon but I found that there are many ways to exploit it:

- Reforging item removes Arcane and Antimagic power source from item, while preserving thier effects (if weapon/armor forging is high enough) allowing antimagic character to benefit from arcane egos and using antimagic items without rune failure chance.
- You can juggle 4 skill points between crafting skills (while you craft) and other skills (while exploring). Other similar skills in game (like psionic reshape weapon/armor) prevent skill juggling.
- Usually, when you reforge item, it becomes white, allowing it to be boosted even more with Crystal Focus.
- You can savescum forging. I suggest adding autosave after forging (like buying 5k gold artifact from merchant).

[Dao Zeti]

I love this addon but I found that there are many ways to exploit it:

- Reforging item removes Arcane and Antimagic power source from item, while preserving thier effects (if weapon/armor forging is high enough) allowing antimagic character to benefit from arcane egos and using antimagic items without rune failure chance.
- You can juggle 4 skill points between crafting skills (while you craft) and other skills (while exploring). Other similar skills in game (like psionic reshape weapon/armor) prevent skill juggling.
- Usually, when you reforge item, it becomes white, allowing it to be boosted even more with Crystal Focus.
- You can savescum forging. I suggest adding autosave after forging (like buying 5k gold artifact from merchant).

Good points. Thanks alot for bringing them up!

1) in the next update I will either remove antimagic properties (like resource burn) or let the antimagic source being carried over to the crafted item,
2) never thought about juggling - I will flag the talents as no_unlearn,
3) I will set either a rare or egoed flag to forged items, so that they cant be combined with Crystals
4) Not sure if adding autosave would slow down the game for players, who don't scum, so I rather don't touch this. If a player wants to abuse savescumming, well, its his choice how to play this game, I'd think.

Edit: updated version available.

[spiralrazor]

My thoughts up to level 21


The class is extremely slow to start out at lower levels...the enchant weapons tree is pretty much the only draw of the class and all the early points seem weak until you get to the 4th skill

I cant see any reason why you would make enchant armor a starting tree, yet still lock it off at lvl 10 anyway.

Also, there is no option to make a ranged weapon enchanter and since you can get dual weapons at lvl 10, theres no reason to stick with 2 handers UNLESS you lock yourself to greater weapon focus.


the actual Forge knight attack talent line works fairly well, and has pretty much everything you need for melee.

I would have to say that for sheer versatility, that Enchanter still wins here...also enchanter can spit out AOES left and right with Magic Weapons tree and still does good damage bumping.



The one BIG plus ive seen with the tree though, is that Forge Knights can re-enchant 1 and 2 hand spears to get rid of that speed penalty...meaning this is the only class Ive seen that can use Spears well...kudos!


Fix the above ranged oversight, and make the talent values from tier 1 to 4 a little more even, and it seems good to go..

Ill report back after lvl 30.