Thinking of making a ranger(from DnD) parallel in ToME

[virulentArachnid]

This class is going to be a sort of mix between alchemist, archer, and summoner.

You are given a bow at start, and given one companion(likely to be a war hound, borrowed from summoner.)

You are given a resource called unity, which is essentially just a clone of stamina, named more appropriately

you and the companion are meant to grow into a fine tuned melee and ranged unit. An addition might be elemental arrows also, though that is debatable.

the animal companion will either level with your actual level or your mind power, I am open to suggestions on that.

thoughts? opinions? suggestions?

[Zonk]

If you haven't already, you might want to check this: http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?p=130082 It's not exactly a new idea (but don't be discouraged!)

[virulentArachnid]

It's a good comparison, and definitely a place I could look to for ideas. One key difference is with mine you have the war hound and you cant get anything else(except maybe with a high level skill)

[ajfluffy]

Friendly damage from arrows may become an issue.

[StarKeep]

Couldn't you take a page from the Thoughtform's book, as it doesn't have to worry about friendly fire.

[virulentArachnid]

I was thinking of not having friendly fire. That'd be a nightmare.

[Doctornull]

Suggestions:

IMHO the most "Ranger"-y thing in the game is the Cursed tree Predator. Steal that whole, and adapt it for not using Hate.

IF you use the War Hound, then use Equilibrium as the class resource.

Some iconic D&D Ranger spells:
- Entangle: pin opponents in a radius.
- Cure Wounds (or just give them the Call of the Wild tree).
- Endure Elements / Resist Fire & Cold (Fire & Cold resist sustain, or just give them the Harmony tree).
- Barkskin: armor boost as a sustain, so they can skimp on Strength and this skip heavier armor? It shouldn't stack with heavier armor.
- Speak with Plants / Speak with Animals / Detect stuff / Commune with Nature: this is basically a looking around talent. The Harmony tree can do this, but staying in Meditation is kind of painful.



IMHO a good Ranger would have:
- your replacement for Cursed / Predator
- Cunning / Stealth
- some Technique / Archery trees
- some Technique / Dual-Weapon trees
- ONE custom Ranger tree with the War Hound, Entangle, Barkskin, and one more thing.

General trees:
- Technique / Combat Training
- Technique / Field Control
- Wild-Gift / Call of the Wild
- Wild-Gift / Harmony
- Cunning / Survival
... maybe traps?


For the one other thing in the custom Ranger tree, maybe something to mitigate the need for Dex, Will and Cunning. You could follow the Shadow Blade method (a talent which does something nice and adds 20% of Cunning to your Willpower for the purpose of Mindpower), or follow the Wyrmic method (a Talent which does something minor and adds a flat +2 to Cunning or Willpower per rank).

A nice thing is faster movement (you could call it "Strider").
A minor thing is switching between weapons for free ("Quick Draw").

[jotwebe]

This class is going to be a sort of mix between alchemist, archer, and summoner.

You are given a bow at start, and given one companion(likely to be a war hound, borrowed from summoner.)

You are given a resource called unity, which is essentially just a clone of stamina, named more appropriately

I'm gonna repeat what I always say when somebody proposes a new resource to go with a new class: Do you really need it? There are tons of items in the game that influence resources, do you want your class not being able to use them effectively? Why not? Unless you want your resource to work in a way that's not possible to replicate with the existing ones, there are plenty to choose from.

As you may have gathered, my first suggestion is scrapping unity and go with Stamina, Stamina/Equilibrium or Stamina/Mana.

Thematically I'd advise going Equilibrium - D&D rangers may be arcane, but in ToME Equilibrium is pretty much a shoe-in for natury dudes. They'd also be able to choose whether to go antimagic or not, whereas Mana would lock them to the magic route.

Suggestions:

IMHO the most "Ranger"-y thing in the game is the Cursed tree Predator. Steal that whole, and adapt it for not using Hate.

IF you use the War Hound, then use Equilibrium as the class resource.

Some iconic D&D Ranger spells:
- Entangle: pin opponents in a radius.
- Cure Wounds (or just give them the Call of the Wild tree).
- Endure Elements / Resist Fire & Cold (Fire & Cold resist sustain, or just give them the Harmony tree).
- Barkskin: armor boost as a sustain, so they can skimp on Strength and this skip heavier armor? It shouldn't stack with heavier armor.
- Speak with Plants / Speak with Animals / Detect stuff / Commune with Nature: this is basically a looking around talent. The Harmony tree can do this, but staying in Meditation is kind of painful.

IMHO a good Ranger would have:
- your replacement for Cursed / Predator
- Cunning / Stealth
- some Technique / Archery trees
- some Technique / Dual-Weapon trees
- ONE custom Ranger tree with the War Hound, Entangle, Barkskin, and one more thing.

General trees:
- Technique / Combat Training
- Technique / Field Control
- Wild-Gift / Call of the Wild
- Wild-Gift / Harmony
- Cunning / Survival
... maybe traps?


For the one other thing in the custom Ranger tree, maybe something to mitigate the need for Dex, Will and Cunning. You could follow the Shadow Blade method (a talent which does something nice and adds 20% of Cunning to your Willpower for the purpose of Mindpower), or follow the Wyrmic method (a Talent which does something minor and adds a flat +2 to Cunning or Willpower per rank).

A nice thing is faster movement (you could call it "Strider").
A minor thing is switching between weapons for free ("Quick Draw").

The interesting thing is that Cunning-based slings would be a logical choice stat-wise for a dagger-ranged hybrid stealth class, but bows are more awesome so everybody always has their classes use bows. Well, there's certainly no way rangers could use anything else.

Cunning/Traps seem a good idea, they're a class tree however, not a generic.

Technique/Mobility is a Stamina generic that does faster movement, synergizes with Field Control and has a skill called Strider.

Technique/Conditioning is a really nice generic tree that fits well with the idea of tough rangers.

The Antimagic option would cover the "resist elements" part as well.

The thing about quick draw is that it is a bit of a TW trademark, so it may be worth it to look at some other effect to help another bow/dual hybrid. Maybe have a talent that switches and gives an automatic attack (with a bonus) when switching to melee and reloads/gives a movement speed boost when switching to a bow?

Some trees if you decide to make the class use Mana (I do recommend Equilibrium, however):

Spell/Conveyance (maybe... is teleport rangery? mobility is...)
Spell/Divinations (Arcane Eye, Keen Senses, Premonition for elemental resist)

[Doctornull]

The interesting thing is that Cunning-based slings would be a logical choice stat-wise for a dagger-ranged hybrid stealth class, but bows are more awesome so everybody always has their classes use bows. Well, there's certainly no way rangers could use anything else.

Slings are a great idea, and sling Rangers should be a possible thing. Not the default necessarily, since Aragorn isn't a sling guy, but the Halfling Ranger Patrol ought to be a fearsome bunch of slingers indeed.

How would you compensate for the Dex / Will / Cunning requirements, given that many people will also want to spend some points in Str and Con?

Technique/Mobility is a Stamina generic that does faster movement, synergizes with Field Control and has a skill called Strider.

D'oh! How did I miss that? That looks perfect from what I can see on the Wiki.

The Antimagic option would cover the "resist elements" part as well.

That's true. For people who don't go Antimagic, will shielding runes cover this enough?

The thing about quick draw is that it is a bit of a TW trademark, so it may be worth it to look at some other effect to help another bow/dual hybrid. Maybe have a talent that switches and gives an automatic attack (with a bonus) when switching to melee and reloads/gives a movement speed boost when switching to a bow?

I think it's a trademark of anyone who wants to be effective at both ranged and melee combat.

[jotwebe]

The interesting thing is that Cunning-based slings would be a logical choice stat-wise for a dagger-ranged hybrid stealth class, but bows are more awesome so everybody always has their classes use bows. Well, there's certainly no way rangers could use anything else.

Slings are a great idea, and sling Rangers should be a possible thing. Not the default necessarily, since Aragorn isn't a sling guy, but the Halfling Ranger Patrol ought to be a fearsome bunch of slingers indeed.

How would you compensate for the Dex / Will / Cunning requirements, given that many people will also want to spend some points in Str and Con?

Well, if they're going to use Stealth and Traps, that's two Cunning talents they're using anyway.

The Antimagic option would cover the "resist elements" part as well.

That's true. For people who don't go Antimagic, will shielding runes cover this enough?

Does it need to be covered for everyone? In that case they'd probably need a talent for it. But I don't think it's necessarily that iconic.

Anyway, you might want to check out this guy's addon:

http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=33333

Haven't looked at it closely myself, so I dunno how similar it is to what you want to do. May have helpful stuff though.