"Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

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nekarcos
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Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#61 Post by nekarcos »

WHOA! A ton of input! And I have definitely heard all of your voices!
... Of course, it is sort of ridiculous to try and respond to this many voices at the same time-- so let's start by talking about the ominous Black Box that is "Drakelings"


*** About Drakelings...
It seems Drakelings are not "explicit" enough for people to understand, and it's still difficult to figure out what to do with them. This was intentional. I intended Drakelings to be something mysterious that escapes a player's understanding-- But I did not expect people to become so daunted about losing these Drakelings (particularly in a roguelike game where death/loss is very common). I don't want to sound awful-- But Drakelings are still exactly what additional Hatchlings are supposed to be: Fodder to protect the parent (whom, in turn, protects them). For example, the "Dissension" tree revolves HEAVILY around using your Drakelings as protection, and even giving yourself ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS damage buffs once one is sacrificed.
In general, I feel the problem is that Fire Drake players are feeling compelled to protect everyone and everything-- But the truth is, Eyal is a cutthroat place, and it would take an absolutely ace player to get through the whole game without letting a single Drakeling die. In fact, my Drakelings VERY frequently died during my test plays, and I rolled with it. Fire Drake WAS NOT balanced such that keeping Drakelings alive throughout the whole game is entirely possible. Now, this next point should cheer you up a bit about what I just said :D


*** A whole new batch
Note that your three starting Drakelings each hit a different niche of Drakeling: An "Angry", Wingless, hateful one... A "Smart", Clawless, neutral one (female too)... And a "Proud", Breathless, loving one. The initial Drakelings are a handful to optimize if you plan to keep them each alive. You are expected to choose 1 or 2 Drakelings you want to focus on. Trying to take care of all 3 of them and give them EXACTLY what they're expecting is unrealistic and you are biting off more than you can chew :lol:
Take this one step at a time. Try a build that focuses entirely on "Breathful Drakelings"-- A team of ranged, Fire Breathing Drakelings. Use them as backline support while you get up into your enemies' faces. Also try playing "White Mage" with a "Clawful Drakelings" bulid-- This gives them various passive benefits that, more or less, allow them to attack when they aren't even attacking.
Finally, Fire Drake has SEVERAL talents that reduce the amount of EXP required for weaker Drakelings to catch up to you. There is also special dialogue only accessible when creating completely new Drakelings, so you are also missing out when you refuse to let any Drakelings die.


*** Keeping Drakelings alive
There also seems to be a DISTINCT amount of complaints over how difficult they are to keep alive in the early game. Now, believe it or not, but, during testing, I have buffed their general survivability more than 10 times, even DOUBLING their Maximum Life value and lowering the requires for Anti-Death traits to show up and it seems this is STILL not enough to make them less of a headache, and everyone concurs (including myself). I am constantly looking for ways to make Drakelings a little more sturdy, but WITHOUT simply removing all the danger associated with tugging a line of kids around with you into dangerous places. One of their most recent additions was the ability to learn Natural Combat talents, and I am mostly eager to see how sturdy they end up becoming in a late game setting-- Not so much the early game. With that said, patience... Not every boss needs to be slain-- Not every unique needs to be defeated... Think about your kids! Think about your family! :cry:


*** The "Unique" Drakelings
So, what's so great about these starting Unique drakelings? Yes, they are, indeed, more powerful than normal-- But keeping them alive was always something I considered to be a challenge run. Their true purpose (much like the Ritch's intro "Engraft" sequence) is to give you a head-start on the class's mechanics (and whatever your ideal end-game strategy is). That is to say, I did not want to "randomize" the starting Drakelings because it would create a situation where the player loads and reloads until they get exactly what they want. I have given you a perfectly well-rounded team of Drakelings so that you would immediately have the potential to become literally ANYTHING-- NOT so that you can try to keep them all alive at once :(


*** "Unique" Drakelings, or "Random" Drakelings?
Drakelings you create at a higher level have MUCH higher stats and "knowledge". That is to say, the stats a recently born Drakeling has is based off your current stats, such that having high strength means your newborn Drakeling will ALSO have high strength. This is to "ease the pain" of losing Drakelings for late-game Fire Drake, but also to make you care a lot less about the starting Drakelings dying. The only thing that makes the unique Drakelings worthwhile is that they have a pre-programmed "optimized" build, causing them to ALWAYS grow in a VERY specific way. For example, it is VERY likely that you will be using Isovau whenever you want to do a Wing/Breath run with Drakelings. If you want to do evil/hateful Drakelings, you are definitely going to pick up Drenng, because he is the only Drakeling that starts off with a negative love factor. On the flip side, if you want a team of "I would do anything for you" Drakelings that will sacrifice themself for you at the drop of a pin, Huuloc is the best way to start your run because he is both high-affection and has the "Protective" nature.


I can only hope these points inspired some new ways of thinking about your Drakelings. Remember-- They're just companions. The unfortunate truth is that loss is crushing-- Especially when its your own children-- So why not get angry about it? Turn it into power! Learn the "Draconic Inspiration" talent and give you and your Drakelings a permanent damage bonus for each Drakeling that has died in the past. With that said, witnessing the death of a loved one will build your Drakelings' character. They will become more resistant to fears in the future (though, they might not love you as much anymore).
But remember: No matter what happens, they will ALWAYS be loyal to you. You will show them the way, and you will teach them the ways of this terrible, cutthroat world.
Creator of the (rather large) "Odyssey of The Summoner" add-on pack

nekarcos
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Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#62 Post by nekarcos »

Alright, so next on my list...
Let's clarify the "Dragon Brood" talent tree a little bit.


*** An apology
To start off, I want to say I thought I could be clever by "vaguely" describing what the various effects of the tree were. Simply saying "Does [X]" or "causes [Y]" felt like it would devalue what is supposed to be a "conquering" moment-- That is, a moment of "inspiration". But alas, I think my lofty ideas are getting in the way of playability-- So the next patch will completely wipe all that lofty stuff away and describe, in full detail, what each of the talents do and how they work.
Since you're already here, though, I'll describe them each in excruciating detail-- Just for you :D


- "Raise Drakeling"
This talent allows you to produce up to 3 loyal companions that are capable of imitating your talents. They level up with only 80% of the standard required experience, Meaning it is VERY possible for Drakelings to outlevel you later in the game.
This talent also has the effect of giving you an "EXP share" effect, meaning Drakelings receive a certain percentage of any EXP you get. Otherwise, they could only get EXP by killing enemies themself (which is difficult).
Finally, there are 5 things that can cause "Inspiration" for each level of the talent you get. Here is exactly what they do:
Lv1 (Defeat a Rival Dragon) ~ Kill any "Dragon" type enemy that is "Normal" rank or higher
Lv2 (Vanquishing a powerful foe) ~ Kill ANY enemy that is "Elite" rank or higher
Lv3 (completing a task to its end) ~ "Complete"/"Finish" a quest. ANY quest.
Lv4 (Gaining combat insight) ~ Level up.
Lv5 (Learning valuable history) ~ Learn lore-- ANY lore. This is BY FAR the easiest thing to do, and I highly recommend this :D

... In the future, I'm thinking of moving the "Complete a quest" one to Lv1 and moving the "kill this" quests up, since completing a quest is FAR less frequent than defeating a strong enemy.


- "Role Model"
This talent causes your Drakelings to ALSO become "Inspired" at the same time that you become inspired. When a Drakeling becomes inspired, it checks all of your talents for if there is anything their current style is capable of learning. That is to say, if you know "Breath of Fire", and you have a drakeling that is interested in "Breath" talents, they will probably ask you about learning it. Both you and the Drakeling need to be inspired in order to successfully teach a talent... However...
... Now, that's the funny thing. Drakelings don't always "ask" you about learning talents. When a drakeling "hates" you, it will instead attempt to learn talents from you WITHOUT your permission. This is both a good and a bad thing. This means Drenng might suddenly decide "Hey, your Lv1 Fire claw looks really good, I'm gonna take that". On the other hand, it also means you don't have to wait for you and them to be inspired in order to teach them new talents (since they're more than happy to teach themself).
The trick to "Role Model" is understanding that they will ONLY ask/learn about talents YOU already know. To direct what they're going to learn better, pick very carefully which talents you want to teach. Also, here's a protip for people doing a "Hateful Drakeling" build: Save your talent points! Don't spend any until you have enough points to get Talent Level 5 of anything you want. This will ensure that they're "stealing" your talents at the highest level possible.
Finally, your level of "Role Model" determines what the highest talent level they can steal from you is-- Such that having "Role Model" at Talent Level 5 means that they can learn talents from you at Talent Level 5. ALSO note that THIS IS NOT RAW TALENT LEVEL. If you increase your category proficiency to x1.20, they will be able to learn talents from you at 1.2, 2.4, 3.6, 4.8, then 6.0-- 1 level higher than normal.


- "Idealists"
This is the most useful training talent of all. Simply put, this talent increases the minimal level they will learn talents from you at. For example, if you have Talent Level 5 "Idealists", they will ALWAYS learn talents from you at Talent Level 5. This is EXTREMELY useful if you plan to focus on all 3 trees at the same time, since you only need to spend 1 talent point on each talent, not 5.
Most importantly, this talent allows Drakelings to learn "unusual" talents on their own. What exactly this means... I can't tell you yet-- But I can assure you: It's something worth investigating. :D


- "Parental Bond"
This is a VERY, VERY powerful talent that gives you BIG returns if you have successfully grown a Drakeling up high enough. Particularly, at Level 3, you get the Fire Safety bonus that causes ALL Fire damage to HEAL that Drakeling. This means you can do silly things like slap them in the face with "Pyro Wheel", and they will simply smile and say "Thank you for your warm lovingness, Mother/Father". I feel that ANYBODY who intends to protect and nurture their Drakelings should always strive for this talent-- Which is available as of Level 14. It helps -significantly- against Friendly Fire incidents (*glaring at Consuming Fire*) and gives you even more ways to heal your Drakelings ("Torrential Blaze" your drakelings in the face for BIG HEALING).
Particularly, it FURTHER decreases the amount of EXP required for a Drakeling to level up if they have the right trait, meaning they will EASILY catch up to you. Not only this, but they will grow -beyond- your level once they get their "Ultimate" trait.


To conclude-- I feel these mechanics are... Kinda "insane" by ToME standards-- But they're also something I'm hoping people can also feel out and get the hang of through trial and error. You can easily get by without having the PERFECT talents on each of your Drakelings-- And remember: If you simply make a new Drakeling, it will be a blank slate that you can teach whatever you want.
Creator of the (rather large) "Odyssey of The Summoner" add-on pack

nekarcos
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Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#63 Post by nekarcos »

Now then, some other notes that were brought up-- I have tried to painstakingly respond to everything and answer all of your questions! :D

@Hunter
- Drakelings are definitely getting stuck around corners. This is something I've been meaning to work out, but it's not simple due to their "unique" pathfinding (you might notice they always form a nice line, rather than crowding around you?)
- No. You CANNOT currently order Drakelings. This is actually just remnant code I forgot to remove. I apologize for the confusion this might have caused :?
- "Role Model" is not supposed to go on cooldown if the target is not inspired. This is a bug, and I am fixing that right now!
- The plot is extremely malleable. Do not feel you HAVE to do certain things at certain times. Afterall, this is still ToME, and it is still a Roguelike :D
It is VERY possible to complete an entire The Summoner quest, then talk to The Summoner later about it and he will essentially say "Wow! You read my mind! Good job!"
- Do not assume everything strange you encounter is a bug. I have a HUGE list of things that are, explicitly, bugs. You can scroll back to about page 2 where I posted it and check it out for yourself if it makes you feel anxious, but I have excluded ones that are spoilers for the time being.


@Hellcommander
- "Tinker" escort, you say...? Is that an addition created by "Embers of Rage"...? I have not looked at or downloaded that yet for the sake of keeping my thoughts/ideas pure (don't ask, I'm a weird guy). If there's behavior created by the add-on, I wouldn't have known about it, so my bad!
- You can't order Drakelings. My bad, I left that option there by accident while I was testing some things. You CAN, however, give your Drakelings "soft" orders by investing into "Snarling Beast", "Dissension", or "Dragon Army" (and if you feel like a baron, you can invest in "Tyrant" to give your enemies orders too :lol: )

- "Lick Wounds" absolutely WILL NOT get a healing effect. It is already an extremely overused talent by EVERY Avatar, so I am already thinking of ways to generalize this effect without distracting from the other ones. Particularly, I might give a "Life Regeneration" effect to Wild Power and COMPLETELY change what Lick Wounds does-- But that's only an extreme case, because I also don't want to replace the presence of Regeneration infusions with... Well, a PERMANENT regeneration infusion :lol:

- Whoops. You're right... I forgot to remove the "Level 10" restriction for those Cunning trees. MY BAD!!! :?
- I thought about making Glob react to "Breath Hydra" talents... I also thought about making standard Drool Head attacks do that... And ultimately, I decided... NOPE! Too powerful. :D
- Try out "Fire Pod" in the Ritch's "Firestarter" tree, and you will very quickly realize why traps are designed to despawn after a certain duration... :?
With that said-- "Glob" is intended as a "Back up" tree for when your talents are all exhausted and enemies are approaching fast. As you can see, they are mostly designed for slowing down the advance of enemies, not exactly killing them.
- "Part The Earth" is not supposed to work on trees/crystal. This is intentional. You can only use it on solid terrain that would drain your oxygen when you're inside of it. This is mainly so that you can't just run back and forth inside of "safe" terrain, watching your life/equilibrium fill right back up to the top. Besides, it's already extremely powerful that you can get a 5-cooldown talent that allows you to pass through walls WITHOUT being followed :?


@nsrr
- I have noted that the "Kill Strong" and "Kill Dragon" parts of "Raise Drakelings" aren't quite working right... In fact, I think they are broken (that, or I have never noticed it working :lol: )
- In the next patch, I am going to COMPLETELY rewrite the talent description so that it is as clear and unmysterious as possible. Perhaps I was foolish to try and be so vague :?
- Going to fix the cooldown glitch on "Role Model". That shouldn't happen, and I could swear I fixed it... But I guess not...

- I began a "Stinger" test run on Ritch-- And I feel HORRIBLY overpowered. Firestarter is also capable of scaling ALL the way from early game to end game WITHOUT tapering off or on-- So this isn't exactly a bad strategy either!
- You're entirely right about the bleeding thing. I have a huge confession to make... You see that generic tree at the bottom there... What's it called again... Hrrrm... Huuumm... Oh right-- "Bloodletting Beast"! WELP, it is TERRIBLY, HORRIBLY, HEINOUSLY OVERPOWERED, and it feels like Ritch almost NEEDS it, like a cripple needs crutches. I am not very pleased about this-- But I won't make any drastic moves/changes until I know FOR CERTAIN that Ritch cannot operate without some consistent, passive "bleeding" effect.
That is to say, I have always wanted to experiment with a "Disease" ritch and a "Fire" ritch. What I might do is modify the "Ego/Mantis" talents so that they operate with "UN-intentional" damage, instead of just Bleeding effects. That, or I am going to switch one of the "Ego/Mantis" talents with "Open Veins".
- YES! "Cold Blood" is a very odd-ball tree. The original idea was to get a huge EXP headstart on the world and, as you said-- It might make more sense if this talent tree starts UNLOCKED. This is EXACTLY what I've been thinking!!
... However, something must become locked in return (every Avatar has 5 locked tree)... And that's when the difficult choice comes: Which of the Ritch's trees would you lock up if you had to choose...? :?
... Would anyone be upset if I locked "Hoarding Beast" for the Ritch, since its not very proficient at this anyways...? You would lose out on the ability to eat Inscriptions, which feels very important for its survivability...

- Ritch has VERY powerful on-demand healing-- But it comes mainly through "Growing Bones's" life steal effect. Also, once you get yourself a "Bloodcaller", the amount of healing you can give yourself convinced me that Ritch doesn't need any more healing than it currently has :(
Also, "Lick Wounds" can effectively be used like a heal if you have VERY heavy poison/bleed effect active on you, but you'd be giving up life regen-- Which hurts. Like I said, I might make life regeneration a passive effect of wild power-- But this is entirely as a last resort.
- I spent a VERY long time trying to figure out how to make Drakelings heal injured allies. At the very least, I can promise you that that is a viable strategy :D


@echo42
- Can you believe that I actually nerfed Recuperate? :D
It used to get as high as 80% of ANY damage whatsoever, and was not affected by Healing Mod/Factor. I feel I've struck a nice "middleground" for the amount of healing it gives now though.
- The "look how tanky I am" strategy quickly stops working around mid/late game. Beware... :lol:
- I've said this a few times-- But I don't consider the free points you get for the "Hydragon" talent tree as "powerful", since you also get a curse in return (going COMPLETELY blind for 30 turns when you lose your Glare heads is horrifyingly dangerous).
- The durability of weapons eventually becomes less relevant as you reach higher material grades. For example, something like "The Golden Sword 'Truth'", ends up with like 350 Durability when you craft it at max talent levels.
- Still working on Drakelings. Oh boy... These guys are a mess! :lol:



WHEW!!
So, everyone... Please keep playing and exploring this-- I am examining everyone's characters carefully, making notes of the ones that get far, and the ones that don't. I am having sleepless nights, thinking about all the frustration people are feeling due to unbalanced/broken things... :(
Creator of the (rather large) "Odyssey of The Summoner" add-on pack

echo42
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Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#64 Post by echo42 »

After all that information, I'm coming round to drakelings a little more. Going to try a drake run as soon as my hydra inevitably perishes.

Also, it would be nice if the accuracy-boosting skill raised accuracy a little higher. I think that's one of the main reasons why you don't see very many melee builds - unless you go full dex, you miss three out of every four attacks in the early game.

Anyhow, don't sweat it, with a mod of this magnitude it'd be almost impossible to have everything adjusted to everyone's satisfaction right off the bat. I for one have been inspired to pick up some coding skills and get around to making my own addon class (eventually).'

And yeah I think Hoarding Beast would probably be a good trade-off for cold blood - the exp boost means you'd get additional cat points faster anyway.
Last edited by echo42 on Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.

tabs
Wyrmic
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Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#65 Post by tabs »

Some thoughts on Ritch:

a. You're almost forced to use flamespit as you have no other options for dealing damage once you run out of blades.
b. Blades are too dependent on luck in earlygame. I ran through all trollmire and most of Kor-pul without finding a single sword/dagger I could reshape. Hence flamespit.
And a suggestionor two:
1. Maybe have a talent to make ritch's unarmed damage equivalent to white weapons of suitable tier. That way reshape can be mainly for acquiring egos, etc.
2. Could reshape change weapons to scale off pure dex instead of str or str/dex?

nsrr
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Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#66 Post by nsrr »

Thanks for the clarification on the Drakelings, much appreciated!

That being said... maybe it would be for the best if things were spelled out explicitly... but that might make alreadyong descriptions even longer. The clarification might be needed on Role Model, but you may be better off packaging up essentially what you've posted here into a Google doc or something and share it as a guide, with a link somewhere in the add on page. The first talent, now that you have confirmed it it is broken, actually works /exactly/ as I had presumed from the description.... the consternation only occurred because it wasn't working. I think the original description will be fine for release, once everything is definitely working as intended.

As for the feeling of loss when one of those unique Drakelings die... I think you may have done /too good/ a job of giving these guys personality.That being said, I think this will be great once players really get a feel for this add on. My current Drake has had no dealings for quite a few levels now and he's still going strong. So I don't mind so much that they are gone, knowing I can get by without them, but it definitely makes me want to try a run where I keep all those original drakelings alive as long as possible, just to see more of their interactions.

But breaks are short and my food is growing cold.... back to the grind.

Keep up the amazing work!

Edit: Guess I have a couple minutes for a quick thought or two on Ritch. Locking Hoarding would be Ok if there was another option for healing... maybe give the first sting a life steal effect? Or... maybe add an effect to their first racial such that overkill from melee attacks goes toward healing you? Seems thematically appropriate.

Ok, now I really have to go...

nekarcos
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Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#67 Post by nekarcos »

@tabs
I ended up typing so much, I have to break this into paragraphs :lol:



*** Impermance Weapon attacks vs Hookclaw (unarmed) attacks
Ritch actually have significantly higher unarmed damage. Because they work by "Hookclaws" and not "Fists", the damage calculations are significantly higher (you'll notice that Ritch even has an innate double-attack for this reason). Here are some specs:
- Ritch's Hookclaw attack has 80% STR and 80% DEX scaling!
*** "Unarmed" is 100% STR, Greatsword is 120% STR, Dagger is 45% STR and 45% DEX, and Longswords is 100% STR
- Ritch's Hookclaw attack has an innate +5% critical hit rate. ("Unarmed" is +0% Crit)
- Hookclaws have higher stat scaling than Impermanent Weapons, meaning Hookclaws can outperform impermanent weapons if its tier is too low. Also note that making a weapon impermanent removes ALL requirements whatsoever.

Here's a damage comparison-- (60 STR, 60DEX, 10/10 Bear Strength) vs Training Dummy:
Hookclaws (1 power) ~ Strikes for 37~43 damage per hit (no crit)
Voratun Daggers (39.5 - 51.35 power, no "Strongarm") ~ Strikes for 63~75 damage per hit (no crit)
Stralite Daggers (29.5 - 38.35 power, no "Strongarm") ~ Strikes for 56~67 damage per hit (no crit)

So you see, it is very "respectible" damage-- But does not outpace impermanence at all. The idea was to make an unarmed attack that "rivals", but does not "outperform" Impermanent weapons (even without "Strongarm"). You can still reasonably bump your enemies to death with unarmed attacks, and one should not panic when their weapons break (though, it might just be better to have an offhand set at the ready :D )


*** "Cutting Edge" and its talent requirements
As for Cutting Edge's requirements... Alright. I have sat here trying to find a justification for making it a pure-dex tree-- But I have only found more and more reasons to make it into another STR/DEX tree. This feels like a hollow solution because-- HEY! Why not just make EVERY tree into a group of talents that always requires whatever your highest primary stat is-- INSTEAD of giving a good reason to only use one stat??
... I guess what I'm saying... Is that I clearly have not given you ENOUGH reason to focus on Dexterity on your Ritch-- Which makes me wonder what I have done wrong with its design...
*falls on knees* I have given to you a "Dex-y Willpower" rogue, but what I am seeing is many Strength-y, Constitution builds! WHAT HAVE I DONE WRONG?!?!
*... checks the Birther description for Ritch...*
"Their most important stats are: Willpower, Cunning, and Constitution"
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Edit: Oh ya, one more thing:

*** "Strongarm" and YOU!!
A feature that is not yet implemented-- "Extravagancy" talents will work for unarmed, Hookclaw attacks, but you will incur 10 times the "durability" loss as Bleeding over a few turns (such that using "Shatter" for -10 Durability would cause you to bleed for 100 damage). The idea was that this would allow players to rely less on Impermanence weaponry if they feel ballsy enough to spend their life instead. It would also synergize with the "Bloodletting Beast" tree (WHICH FRANKLY DOESN'T NEED ANY MORE POWER) by allowing you to trigger a bleed on yourself at will (and thus, instantly activate the Life Steal component of the effect).
Long story short-- I personally feel allowing Strongarm to work for Hookclaw attacks at the cost of causing yourself to bleed for notable damage would be a SIGNIFICANT boon to Mantis and Ritch (because, this is actually unmentioned, but "Ego/Mantis" effects are also inclusive to YOUR OWN bleeding effects :lol: )
Creator of the (rather large) "Odyssey of The Summoner" add-on pack

echo42
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Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#68 Post by echo42 »

Edited this into an earlier post, but gonna put it in a new post in case it got skimmed over.

Getting inspired on level up doesn't seem to be working very well. Also, it would be nice if Inspiration lasted just a little longer - I keep trying to raise a drakeling, getting interrupted by enemies, and then having the inspiration buff run out by the time it comes off cooldown.

Also, unless I'm missing something I have to activate, drakeling leveling up seems to be messing up. My drakelings are all at 200+% exp and are all still level 1.

All this was on the latest version.

As for the ritch, I imagine once you get past the execrable early game (which I haven't mustered the patience to do myself) most of the ritch talents involve you gaining bonuses for hitting things really, really hard, so strength is a no brainier there. As for con, dodge-tanking via dex will only get you so far, and with very little healing save via lifesteal you really need the extra bulk. If you want more reasons to focus on dex, consider adding in additional phys power/ defensive boosts that scale with dex, similar to brawler.

Radon26
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Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#69 Post by Radon26 »

that's why, you either kill everything around, and drag your objective away to kill it in solitude, or youblitz your objective, and get your pursuers lost. although the second option requires you to have some way of actually reliably losing the enemies after you.

its like trying to teleport to anglowyn or point zero, while there is an active enemy behind the corner. no chance.

nekarcos
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Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#70 Post by nekarcos »

"Odyssey of The Summoner" has been updated!! (Version 0.2.1)

*** Version: 0.2.1 ~ "Now with more-- WHOA! You changed WAY too many things!! :x "
[General]
- Modified the "Eagle Eyes" talent. The accuracy curve now starts at 8 and ends at 34, effectively increasing early gains and reducing late gains.
- Modified the "Sturdy Heart" talent. The "Die At" effect is now a flat percentage of your maximum life (15~45% from 0 to 100 Wild Power). You all wanted a "healing" activated effect, right? :lol:
- Modified the "Natural Cycle" talent. The activated effect is now SIGNIFICANTLY more potent and lasts longer at lower wild power.
- A quick fix to a chat issue with The Summoner in the grove.

[Hydra]
- Fixed an incorrect value that marked "Lurking Beast", "Mist Beast", and "Glob" as Lv10-only Talent Trees (although, it really should not have been possible to unlock them until Lv10 ANYWAYS *glares at everyone*)
- "Recuperate" is now the 2nd talent in the Recuperation talent tree. Sorry guys! :(
*** Those playing Hydra in a previous version will have ALL their points in "Recuperate" refunded upon entering the Wilderness.

[Fire Drake]
- A Drakeling's inspiration will now be displayed in the game log.
- Implemented a solution that should prevent Drakelings from being stuck at level 1.
- Various talent descriptions in the "Dragon Brood" Talent Tree have been clarified
- Discovered the cause of Raise Drakelings's "Kill Dragons" and "Kill Powerful" effects not triggering. They should now work correctly.
- Additionally, the order of feats for each talent level of "Raise Drakelings" has been rearranged. Please inspect this before resuming your Fire Drake runs!
*** These WILL NOT be refunded, because they affect the world in a permanent way! Sorry about that!
- Drakelings no longer have a "Give Orders" option (this will not be reflected for old Drakelings).
*** Please use the quick fix item provided on the wilderness to update Drakeling behavior (this will not remove the "Give Orders" option however)

[Ritch]
- The sting from "Deadly Sting" will no longer trigger if the target is already dead
- The order of "Ego/Mantis" talents have been rearranged! Particularly, "Guillotine" is now the 2ND talent in the tree!
- The bonus physical damage on "Bloody Edge" has been increased. COME ON!!! LET'S SEE SOME BLOOD!! :twisted:
*** Those playing Ritch in a previous version will have ALL their points in "Ego/Mantis" refunded upon entering the Wilderness.


Also-- PS:
@echo42
"Inspiration" lasts a random duration between 5 and 100 turns. You have been getting unlucky. :lol:

Also: If you invest in Natural Combat trees (such as "Bear Strength" and "Rabbit's Foot")-- You are essentially getting ALL that you could hope for!

@Radon26
You actually have the right idea! Besides, that's what "Buzz-Off" is for. It's your bonafide "OH SHIT" button :lol:
Creator of the (rather large) "Odyssey of The Summoner" add-on pack

Radon26
Sher'Tul
Posts: 1439
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:50 am

Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#71 Post by Radon26 »

nekarcos wrote: @Radon26
You actually have the right idea! Besides, that's what "Buzz-Off" is for. It's your bonafide "OH SHIT" button :lol:
yes, extremely useful when you can only select adjacent tile, with a random radius of 10. sure i was only like 1 or 2 points in it, but seriously, could you PLS make it a cone instead? its not a teleport.

Chronosplit
Archmage
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:27 pm

Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#72 Post by Chronosplit »

Just got down to playing this. This whole thing is huge so I can't really comment on much yet, but what I've seen is amazing. Like a whole new DLC!


Slight mod compatibility report: the whole of Verdant, including the summoner rework at least seems to play nice with this one. That means Rich Druids for even more close range synergy. Or shark/bird hydras. :D

Hunter
Uruivellas
Posts: 638
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:43 pm

Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#73 Post by Hunter »

Wow, a lot of information. Which is exactly what I asked for, so it behooves me to get to reading. :lol:

But, seriously, thanks for the effort of actually going to all the trouble to write things out extensively. That and the regular updates tell me you're committed to making this add-on work and supporting it. It's sometimes frustrating when a good add-on becomes obsolete because the creator doesn't want to update it to fix problems.

On a personal note, I think it would be a shame if you got rid of the 'flavor' text entirely. You put a lot of thought into it. I'd suggest just adding a bare-bones outline of the talent's intent underneath the flavor. I can't speak for others, but my main problem was simply not knowing what, if anything, I was missing that would keep me from using the Brood Tree talents. So the flavor wasn't the problem, just the lack of information about what I should expect out of the talent and a general idea of how to access it. It's sort of like the character unlocks of the main game. The necromancer unlock, for instance, has plenty of flavor, it just gives you a meaningful nudge on how to meet the requirements (say, finding the heart of a necromancer, of which there are only two significant ones in the game, the Master and Celia. You can work it out from there.) The flavor in your add-on is great. I haven't read so much information/dialogue/lore in this game in years, and I'm actually enjoying doing so. My personal take is to leave the full descriptions here on the forum and just add pared-down ones to the game. If people need more info, they can make the effort to find it here, but they don't necessarily feel they have to come here to make any progress.

nekarcos
Uruivellas
Posts: 635
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:50 pm

Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#74 Post by nekarcos »

@Hunter
No worries-- I am taking nsrr's suggestion (which I like) and using "layman's" terms for the time being. Later on, I'll revert the description.
Creator of the (rather large) "Odyssey of The Summoner" add-on pack

Hunter
Uruivellas
Posts: 638
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:43 pm

Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#75 Post by Hunter »

nekarcos wrote:@Hunter
No worries-- I am taking nsrr's suggestion (which I like) and using "layman's" terms for the time being. Later on, I'll revert the description.

Okay. I can't speak for others, as I said, but I wanted to make sure you understood what I was writing wasn't an attack on your descriptions and lore, because I honestly do like them. They actually give the player something to think about instead of just mindlessly leveling up whatever sounds the most powerful. (Or, for that matter, mindlessly choosing whatever dialogue option sounds like it's what the creator wants us to choose. The Summoner, for instance, actually asks what would be meaningful questions, especially with the drakes. I have no idea where my choices lead just yet -- and don't even know if you've developed that far with the current versions, for that matter -- but they're considerably better than the usual "Do you savagely A) murder an innocent person or B) do you try to do the right thing?" type dilemmas many games offer us.)

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