Necromancy+ v2.2 (Although now mostly Spiritmancer)

[HousePet]

And I haven't touched that part of the code.

[Sradac]

I guess I should do a facepalm then.

I've played lots of necromancers but I think 2 things factor into my ignorance here which im going to blame instead of me just being an idiot:

1. I almost exclusively play minionless
2. I dont think I've ever actually looked at that talent description without having any minions up

Its not my fault!

[Delmuir]

A general review:

One too many skill trees and overpowered. All in all though, it's good.

Grasping claws is a skill that I love, maybe for no other reason than thematically.

Meat Shield is great but pretty powerful… if you're a summoning necro, that skill is a beast.

Ghostly touch is pretty useless… or at least to me.

I like the addition to undead explosion although I'd prefer that the skill did more damage rather than have additional bonuses but again, that's purely because I love the idea of that skill and wish I could use it more.

Dead Whispers is FANTASTIC but I wish it was a sustain. It'd be worth it almost regardless of cost.

Grim Resolve… again, I'd kind of like this to be a sustain but I feel like it might be interesting if it cost life instead of mana. Perhaps this entire tree could work that way…

I think ultimately, the problem with this add-on is editing. You've added some great things but you didn't make any "choices" by removing anything. As a result, you have added to the skill-point shortage and made going Lichform less viable rather than more, especially with moving Vampiric Gifts, which is very desirable for a Lich.

More so, it kind of relegates the animus tree to being pretty… underwhelming. With this add-on, I'd hardly touch that tree.

I think that this add-on is too strong but it plays thematically much better than the standard Necro. It's also a lot more fun. It just needs an edit. You'd have to cut an entire tree out of this but not just the skills that you've added but some of the original ones as well.

[HousePet]

You did see that Meat Shield only protects against physical hits right? I'm not sure how you think it would be any better for a summoning Necro though, it would still only give one physical ward per kill. This will have to be changed. It won't work right with my Ward change.

Ghostly Touch is very little by itself, but it synergises with some other talents and minions.

With 5 talent points and a category point, Dead Whispers has a duration equal to its cooldown.

Your comments on Grim Resolve make no sense. Are you talking about Grave Resolve?

How is one extra optional category adding to the skill point shortage?
And isn't adding more good options adding choices? How does removing things add choices???
As for Lichform, yes Vampiric Gift is useful, but getting to the forth talent in Charnel is no different from getting to the forth talent in Grave. If anything, I've made Lichform easier, as you can use Darktouched to heal yourself. No category point needed.

These extra categories were made before Animus existed.

And you haven't actually said what is too strong...

[Delmuir]

Perhaps it's how I play the Necro… I don't play it as defensively as the Summoner and tend to use shield runes to tank a bit. For my strategy, Meat Shield is pretty pimped out. Yes though, I did realize that it's physical only which is my point… it lets me wade into the middle of a fight much better. I love it.

Good point on Dead Whispers but I'm not sure I'd want to spend a category point for it plus five generic points… depending on the race of course. That being said, it's a very minor critique as I think the skill is fantastic.

On "Grim Resolve," yes, I meant Grave Resolve. My thought on it was (and my character is now only lvl 30) that maybe a life-based sustain would be interesting given that this add-on makes the Necro fairly hard to kill. It was a thought, albeit not necessarily a good one.

Ghostly Touch is better than I'd realized, especially for how I'm playing. It seemed fairly minor but it's a pretty big boost if playing for cold.

The issue of choice versus options is this: if one is playing Lichform, one will likely want more spells. That, combined with FrostDusk and the Ice tree makes going for Grave a natural and logical thing to do. Putting Vampiric gifts at the end of another tree means at least three more points spent in order to get it and getting it is very good for blasting Lichform.

Obviously, one can sacrifice Grave but I don't think that Charnel is an effective substitute for Grave +Vampiric gifts. I'll know more once I finish this run and maybe another but as it stands now, it strikes me as leaving a clear limitation.

Choice is good. Options are good. Not all choices actually afford more options though (at least not viable ones to win the game). In the case of the Necromancer, with or without your add-on, that's a problem.

I think this add-on is quite good. I think it has elements that vastly improve the play-style and feel of the character. However, it's been pretty easy. I've taken a ghoul Necromancer (because I didn't think I had enough points for Lichform so I didn't play a Higher or whatnot) half-way through the prides in an extremely casual play through and haven't died yet. I haven't even gone back West yet. In fact, I haven't really been in danger at all. Is it over-powered? It feels that way but I can't say for sure until I make it to the end.

I still think the class is a bit messy. I think your version doesn't solve that problem even if it makes it a much more enjoyable character.

[HousePet]

Charnel is a substitute for Grave minus Vampiric Gift though and you love Grasping Claws and Meat Shield, so what is the problem?

With the addition of Animus, there might be too many heals available. But people do seem obsessed with healing abilities when aiming for Lichform.

[HousePet]

Updated with compatibility and goodies.

Goodies include: Shuffling Aura Mastery, Undeath Link and Impending Doom around.
Merging Curse of the Meek into Shadow Tunnel.
Adding a new talent, Nether Breach: for extra darkness nuking.
Added some cold damage and resistance buffing to Will of the Wisp and it also grants a chance to summon a wisp on spell hit.

[cttw]

I cant say I agree with the curse of the meek change. The usage scenario has literally nothing in common with the usage scenario for Shadow Tunnel. Curse of the meek really needed to be left alone, and pressure from those who don't play pet necros is not a good reason to change it, even in this addon.

[HousePet]

They both surround you with other creatures to soak up damage.

[cttw]

The skellies have to walk back to the targets, at a point where you are already low on souls.

[HousePet]

I guess that is true.
Is Curse of the Meek effective at recovering souls?
It seems more flavourful than functional.

[Pigslayer]

I guess that is true.
Is Curse of the Meek effective at recovering souls?
It seems more flavourful than functional.

Yes.

[cttw]

The trick is casting it at the right time. There are many right times. You can cast it as a distraction, to get souls (when enemy aoe is going on is the best, dont wait until you are low), and also to tilt level generation a little bit in your favour. You know later in the game when sometimes you get into a new level and it is a room completely filled with enemies except for your spot? With skellies its 7 more squares that are not filled with enemies, and with the curse of the meek, its another 7 squares not filled with enemies.

[HousePet]

That last use sounds exploity...

[cttw]

It's hard being a squishy thing without Aegis.