"Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

[jenx]

@jenx

RE: First Discipline changed
... Did you, at any point, unlearn Nature Hardened...? Because as soon as you reach Talent Level 0, it elects your next earliest talent as your "First Discipline"-- Which was probably Eagle Eyes.

Nope, and it's happened twice now.

[nekarcos]

@jenx

RE: First Discipline changed
... Did you, at any point, unlearn Nature Hardened...? Because as soon as you reach Talent Level 0, it elects your next earliest talent as your "First Discipline"-- Which was probably Eagle Eyes.

Nope, and it's happened twice now.

I really need to know when and how this is happening, or else I can't really reach a conclusion...

[Gottschkopf]

So, now that I gathered my thoughts, some remarks to my run:

There are some items which you can inspect, you get "This looks particularly appetizing etc", but I couldn't find a way to profit from it. E.g. Hornet stingers, The gaping maw. I tried consuming, reliefing, but nothing happened.
Other items you could inspect, but you didn't get any text, e.g. Crown of command.

I consumed Blood of life, reliefed it, it worked, but I couldn't quite make out the effect. Is there even any?

And last but not least, I was getting LUA errors whenever I stepped on underwater-traps (like syphons), but the trap never triggered. (Not sure if this is OotS or another addon, but it says OotS in the error).

Note: I skipped the last two or three updates of OotS because the run took me so long and you said the updates would break the savefiles. So if you already fixed any of this, just ignore it.

[nekarcos]

@Gottschkopf
There's a difference between "Examine" and "Inspect" (it's subtle, I know).
- "Examine" is something I haven't finished implementing, and is going to be a way for you to trigger "Reflection" events in the future.
- "Inspect" is to let you know if "OoTS" has added any "special" properties an object doesn't normally have, as well as providing you a "hint" as to what it might be.

Typically, the object in question has some sort of compatibility with the Hoarding Beast talent tree. However, some consumables may not be "compatible" with your character at all.

So, in summary: Try using (nonsensical) logic to determine which classes could make use of what objects!


To get you started, here's a good one:
- If Ritch eats Hornet Stingers... Hmmmmm...

[Gottschkopf]

@Gottschkopf
However, some consumables may not be "compatible" with your character at all.

So, in summary: Try using (nonsensical) logic to determine which classes could make use of what objects!


To get you started, here's a good one:
- If Ritch eats Hornet Stingers... Hmmmmm...

Well, I did think hydra with stingers as teeth would be a stupid sight, but I didn't think this far... Well, time to try Dragon and Ritch, I think.

[tabs]

The bug where "First Discipline" bonus moved happened to me as well. It moved from Hungry Eyes to Eagle Eyes. I did not notice precisely when it happened, unfortunately. My only thought was if it might be escort related?


Also, did you intend for Delta Formation to take a full turn, rather than be instant? Any turn gains (at most 1 or two) you might get from faster breaths are kinda mooted if you need to burn a turn to turn it on (and if it doesn't last long).

[Gottschkopf]

... EXCEPT for ONE little thing...

QuickTome: Orb of Communication
Apparently, this allows you to learn "Mindstar Mastery"-- Which is something I intentionally made unavailable to Avatars-- ESPECIALLY because of the Hydra class. Did you make use of this at all? Be honest now... I can't confirm for certain because the vault doesn't show talent categories the class doesn't have built in (hence why "Blighted" talent trees never show up)

Nope, I had no Mindstar Mastery. Playing without tons of "on-hit-effects", I don't think I could even play melee (At least not my build). I had the Mindstars just for regen, because rings with good regen are rare. Count the generic talent points if you don't believe me.

[nekarcos]

@tabs
VERY peculiar... Alright, I'm going to have to dive into this problem face first. It seems to be eluding people and this is a FAIRLY big issue...

NOTICE: Today's patch might be a little delayed because I was already in the process of fixing another big issue-- So give me some time!


Edit: Oh, about "Delta Formation"...?
Good point-- I think I'll remove the energy usage. Seems kinda redundant, huh?


@Gottschkopf
No worries-- I definitely believe there was no shenanigans-- Particularly because you used Hydra EXACTLY the way *I* did for most of my successful runs... So it's really not hard to believe at all!

The real challenge now, however... Is somehow making the "clever" Hydra a more viable thing-- That is, making use of things like Mist Beast or Lurking Beast. The "tenacious" Hydra (stack as much HP and tanky effects as possible) is absolutely proven-- The "rip your face out" Hydra (basically, Feral Hydra + Ravenous Beast) is proven too-- But the "clever" hydra ("Glare Hydra" and Stealth-focused) was dragging a bit, and had an absolutely ATROCIOUS early game (even worse than normal!)

But yeah-- Again, congratulations on your win!

[nekarcos]

UPDATE: I have determined the cause of "First Discipline" resets-- It happens whenever your talent category mastery of "Wild-Heart/Natural Combat" changes. This could occur when investing a Category Point to improve it, choosing "+0.05 Mastery" from a Loremaster, or (somehow) finding a necklace with "Natural Combat" mastery on it.

I will be implementing a fix for this in the next update-- But I'm STILL hard at work on "something else"...

Bear with me, and, as always, thanks for your continued feedback and input on "buggy" matters!

[daed4]

How does one equip anything on the drakeling's maw slot? I know in CERTAIN PLACE you can make them put something in there via special dialog, but I meant other than that.

Other than that the char-screen works and I haven't seen any weird exploit so far.

Upchucked items are no longer in an auto-pick up list, same happens when you die, however if they're dropped from your drakelings they're on autopick up. Unsure if that's supposed to be that way.

[nekarcos]

@daed4
RE: Drakeling Mouth Slot
There is definitely a usage besides that one event-- That's all I can say.

RE: Upchucked Items
The Drakeling thing is unintentional, but it's kinda the way ToME is designed to work. This is partly what I meant when I said "you are not normally supposed to be able to access an NPC's inventory". Apparently, anything a non-player character drops is considered as a quick-pick-up again.

The upchucked thing, though, IS intentional. This is mainly so that it's not so easy to "retrieve" your items if you're using "Relief" in the middle of combat. One of the main dangers I visualized with "Relief" was that the player might run into a rather nasty enemy that will hit them and force them to spit out something valuable-- But, because the player is so imperiled, they might be forced to leave the object behind in order to save their own life.

With every talent I make, I'm always envisioning funny scenarios like this-- These are mainly what direct my mechanical/functional choices A LOT of the time: Drawbacks/Repercussions you might not have anticipated...

[nsrr]

No serious bugs to report. I really like this Discipline system you came up with. The First Discipline bonus adds a lot of gravity to the decision you make for your first Natural Combat talent, and it makes the choice feel a lot more important and unique than many of the decisions I make on the level up screen. I did end up taking Rabbit's Foot as my First on my current run, but only after debating a lot of other options with myself. Elusiveness is still a really compelling choice, and Hungry Eyes is an appealing option, as well. I'm definitely going to try the invisibility talent as my First at some point, mostly because invisibility is pretty under-played in Vanilla ToME and I'd like to mess around with it a bit. Having a high-power invisibility with only 30% damage reduction seems like it would be pretty strong in the early game.

I'm rambling again... in summary, nice work!

Ok, now the few minor bugs I do have.

I started a game with Rexo's graphics and all was fine there. I ran into an AK patrol before making it to Derth that ended up chasing me into two Zigur patrols, so I decided to just end the run and start over. (I'm not griping; This is actually the first time I have been totally blocked by patrols before reaching Derth.) When I was sent to the Eidlon, I asked it to end my misery and chose to restart with the same character. When the run started, I noticed that the tile for The Summoner had reverted to your original, while my character still had Rexo's graphics. Not a big issue, just a little odd.

Second, something I noticed before but forgot about. Also really minor, though. During the initial battle, if you move onto the tile just below The Summoner it will trigger the chat dialog as though you had bumped him. This will stop happening after the opponents retreat. Not really an issue at all, but, again, a little odd.

Third, really only a cosmetic issue, but Escorts also get the 'Manage Inventory' option when you click on their icon in the party list. It does nothing, so, again, not pressing at all.

Lastly, not a bug at all, as far as I can tell, just something I don't quite understand. I've noticed that there are actually two different dialogs that can pop up when you first enter Derth. One where you 'speak' to the guards, and another that just says something to the effect of, 'there are no guards in sight; since no one is stopping you, you must be free to enter.' At first I thought this had to do with whether or not you had gone to the Grove before Derth, but after a few trials this didn't actually seem to make a difference. I suspect now that it is actually quite literal and that the alternate dialog will appear if there no guards in sight (i.e. no NPCs within vision range) upon entering the town. I'm curious if this is the reason after all, or if there is something else that I'm overlooking. In either case, it seems odd to omit the whole 'learning-to-talk' bit and just suddenly become friendly and able to speak. Clearly there is some intentional implementation going on here, I just feel like I'm missing something.

[nekarcos]

@nsrr
RE: The Discipline System
-- Is a pile of steaming garbage! This really has to be the most "haphazard" implementation I have ever created for something, and the AMOUNT of bugs and issues and PROBLEMS it has introduced (most of which you didn't see because I fixed them before releasing it)...

... Well... *sigh*... This is the tragic part of being a creator, isn't it? Hahaha...

Ah well. Glad you like it. This is the best compromise I can come up with until I figure out a way to implement that whole "Wild Power resource" system I've been talking about.


RE: Restarting Rexo's graphics
Eeeep... I better check that out...


RE: Talkative Summoner
Bah! No matter what I do, I just can't keep that man from prattling on...! It's something to do with an NPC with a "Talk Bubble" trying to move in a direction, but bumping into you, the player-- And, strangely enough, it doesn't really matter if the NPC is unable to move...!

One day, I'll figure out how to "properly" deal with this... Ooooh... Just you wait.


RE: Manage Escorts?!
AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
I KNEW it wouldn't be THAT easy!!


RE: What's with the guards in Derth??
So, funny story, this:

One day, while I was working on Odyssey events and dialogue, I sat down and said: "Y'know... It would be interesting if we had a short little comedy relief moment between two of-no-consequence characters when you, a horrible grotesque monstrosity, come strolling into this peaceful, unsuspecting village."

And so, I got to writing this.
The sequence featured two "Monty Python"-esque Guardsmen debating over what kind of horrible monstrosity you really are-- Until, of course, eventually getting interrupted by what I always imagined as an "Answering Machine"-like voice recording The Summoner somehow managed to embed into your very ethereal being (what??).

Anyways-- The script was golden! It was cheesy and zany in a very "Tales of Maj'Eyal" way. I loved it! I absolutely loved it!

... Then-- I encountered an error. A VERY ELUSIVE error... One that always fired whenever I entered Derth, while at other times, it WOULD NOT happen.
It escaped me for the longest time what was causing it...

... Until, one day, I finally figured it out...

The Derth I visited this time was populated by naught but nascent children and barking dogs-- Happy house wives and busy husbands, banging away with their hammers. A perfectly serene paradise of no troubles of worries whatsoever-- A town of complete and absolute bliss-- Such that there was no crime... No dangers...

... NO GUARDS!!!

"Derth" didn't always generate a "Guard" NPC. It, too, was at the mercy of a random-number generator, and there was, INDEED, the possibility of the ENTIRE town being COMPLETELY void of any upon generation.

At the end of the day, it turned out my absolutely PERFECT script would make absolutely NO sense if there weren't any guards being loaded into the zone-- And the LAST thing I was going to do was try to modify the zone such that it would ALWAYS generate at least one.

... And so, I came up with a solution...

... A rather lazy one.

*THE END*

... Zzzzz...

[Tinyshockwave]

@tabs
The real challenge now, however... Is somehow making the "clever" Hydra a more viable thing-- That is, making use of things like Mist Beast or Lurking Beast. The "tenacious" Hydra (stack as much HP and tanky effects as possible) is absolutely proven-- The "rip your face out" Hydra (basically, Feral Hydra + Ravenous Beast) is proven too-- But the "clever" hydra ("Glare Hydra" and Stealth-focused) was dragging a bit, and had an absolutely ATROCIOUS early game (even worse than normal!)

But yeah-- Again, congratulations on your win!

I think I am going to give the clever hydra a try. So far I have been doing a weird hybrid by first maxing the breaths to carry the early game, but then ignoring the rest of the breath tree. The I put a bunch of points into glare hydra, which I really like. Once I get a bunch of glares on the enemy they stop being a threat at all, just unable to act, plus confused, and when they do hit hardly hurt. But then I have been trying to transition into a Ravenous Beast hydra, and have never got far enough to get it going. Now you've peaked my interest about the sneaky trees! My biggest concern is how to deal with fear immune, or even just high resistant, enemies, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there, eh?

[nekarcos]

@Tinyshockwave
I'll tell you this much: It's A LOT of hard work-- WAY more work than just walking up to them and biting their head off-- But if you ending up liking "Glare Hydra"... Then I think you'll really like the nature of Mist Beast and Lurking Beast too!

- "Mist Beast" has VERY potent crowd-control, and the control gets stronger the more victims there are. Basically, it's designed to subdue large crowds of enemies (giant swarms of orcs...?).

- "Lurking Beast" is essentially the "CC-immunity" tree. It has a lot of "playful" abilities that let you laugh and dance around your opponents-- Particularly, a blinding effect that NEVER fails and a "Disengage" that puts you into stealth AND removes Stuns/Pins.