Alright ladies and gentlement, it's NERF TIME!
- Almost all damage reduced by 1.5. All healing by 1.25 respectively.
- Light tree now gets half the Twilight bonuses/antibonuses.
- Totality now only reduces cooldowns of those speels that correspond to your luminosity bar state.
- Blood Red Moon now raises your Luminosity cap above what Twilight thinks your cap is. Even more damage bonuses! Or antibonuses.
- Luminosity rating for Anorithils nerfed to 1 per level. Life's harsh.
Luminosity Anorithil Rework: feedback appreciated.
Moderator: Moderator
Re: Luminosity Alpha - Illuminate the Enemy!
Currently, yellow is already color coded to mean "powered by Sun", ie gets stronger with more luminosity, and grey is color coded to mean "powered by the Moon", ie gets stronger with less luminosity. This is separate from whether it moves your luminosity up or down. In fact, most (but not all) things that are powered by the Sun move your luminosity down, because you're using up the thing that you're powered by and mechanically, to have a negative feedback loop instead of a positive one. The reverse is true for the Moon. So you can only use the yellow/grey color code for one set of things, whether it's associated with Sun/Moon or whether it moves your luminosity up or down, otherwise the colors will be confusing.
As a math person, double negatives make way more sense to me, and Sun Paladins have had double negatives for years with no complaints, so I'm not sure why it's an issue now.
Edit for new patch:
-Corona's range needs to be narrowed to account for the new lumi rating.
-I think Darkest Light should actually generate more luminosity as it's leveled, not less. For light it's sort of like Meditation + invisibility, for dark you use it when you're really high on lumi and you want to reach the cap as quickly as possible so you can get your insta-full negative lumi + damage explosion.
-While current damage numbers are more balanced than they were in the initial release, 5/5 Moonlight Ray with 5/5 Twilight and 5/5 Blood Red Moon at max luminosity does less damage than 5/5 Flame, by itself. It only gets more pathetic from there. Anorithils should be stronger at max power and weaker at the middle range, not weaker at max power and even weaker than that at the middle.
-Blood Red Moon's luminosity cap bonus should be a percentage increase, not flat, for more consistent interaction with Twilight as you level it up.
-Twilight-powered Bathe in Light is hilariously powerful and blows anything that dark has completely out of the water. I mean, for one, vanilla Bathe in Light could use a straight nerf anyway. Second, if light gets more healing, dark needs something too, because they do more or less the same damage right now. There is Shadow Simulacrum, but because it doesn't work on bosses whatsoever, it's a really niche ability that you're locked out of using exactly when you need it most.
As a math person, double negatives make way more sense to me, and Sun Paladins have had double negatives for years with no complaints, so I'm not sure why it's an issue now.
Edit for new patch:
-Corona's range needs to be narrowed to account for the new lumi rating.
-I think Darkest Light should actually generate more luminosity as it's leveled, not less. For light it's sort of like Meditation + invisibility, for dark you use it when you're really high on lumi and you want to reach the cap as quickly as possible so you can get your insta-full negative lumi + damage explosion.
-While current damage numbers are more balanced than they were in the initial release, 5/5 Moonlight Ray with 5/5 Twilight and 5/5 Blood Red Moon at max luminosity does less damage than 5/5 Flame, by itself. It only gets more pathetic from there. Anorithils should be stronger at max power and weaker at the middle range, not weaker at max power and even weaker than that at the middle.
-Blood Red Moon's luminosity cap bonus should be a percentage increase, not flat, for more consistent interaction with Twilight as you level it up.
-Twilight-powered Bathe in Light is hilariously powerful and blows anything that dark has completely out of the water. I mean, for one, vanilla Bathe in Light could use a straight nerf anyway. Second, if light gets more healing, dark needs something too, because they do more or less the same damage right now. There is Shadow Simulacrum, but because it doesn't work on bosses whatsoever, it's a really niche ability that you're locked out of using exactly when you need it most.
Re: Luminosity Alpha - Illuminate the Enemy!
I totally wanted to do that, too. Damn my memory.donkatsu wrote:-Corona's range needs to be narrowed to account for the new lumi rating.
Maybe. I'll think about it.donkatsu wrote:-I think Darkest Light should actually generate more luminosity as it's leveled, not less. For light it's sort of like Meditation + invisibility, for dark you use it when you're really high on lumi and you want to reach the cap as quickly as possible so you can get your insta-full negative lumi + damage explosion.
I'll move the nerf to be 1.25 and 1.175.donkatsu wrote:-While current damage numbers are more balanced than they were in the initial release, 5/5 Moonlight Ray with 5/5 Twilight and 5/5 Blood Red Moon at max luminosity does less damage than 5/5 Flame, by itself. It only gets more pathetic from there. Anorithils should be stronger at max power and weaker at the middle range, not weaker at max power and even weaker than that at the middle.
This is complicated but should be doable.donkatsu wrote:-Blood Red Moon's luminosity cap bonus should be a percentage increase, not flat, for more consistent interaction with Twilight as you level it up.
I was afraid of that. I'll just nerf the healing mod.donkatsu wrote:-Twilight-powered Bathe in Light is hilariously powerful and blows anything that dark has completely out of the water. I mean, for one, vanilla Bathe in Light could use a straight nerf anyway. Second, if light gets more healing, dark needs something too, because they do more or less the same damage right now. There is Shadow Simulacrum, but because it doesn't work on bosses whatsoever, it's a really niche ability that you're locked out of using exactly when you need it most.
As for the bosses, I think I will go with edge's approach of "dividing stuff by rank". In this case stuff will be damage output.
That was my concern as well. I'm leaving the color code for sustain costs, though.donkatsu wrote:Currently, yellow is already color coded to mean "powered by Sun", ie gets stronger with more luminosity, and grey is color coded to mean "powered by the Moon", ie gets stronger with less luminosity. This is separate from whether it moves your luminosity up or down. In fact, most (but not all) things that are powered by the Sun move your luminosity down, because you're using up the thing that you're powered by and mechanically, to have a negative feedback loop instead of a positive one. The reverse is true for the Moon. So you can only use the yellow/grey color code for one set of things, whether it's associated with Sun/Moon or whether it moves your luminosity up or down, otherwise the colors will be confusing.
Inverting numbers depending on your bar status wouldn't make much sense, would it? I mean, technicaly they already are in the bar's display.
Re: Luminosity Alpha - Illuminate the Enemy!
Alternatively, maybe make Twilight's bonuses also based on your flat luminosity?0player wrote:This is complicated but should be doable.donkatsu wrote:-Blood Red Moon's luminosity cap bonus should be a percentage increase, not flat, for more consistent interaction with Twilight as you level it up.
My body is ready for Shadow Atamathon. Shadowmathon.0player wrote:I was afraid of that. I'll just nerf the healing mod.donkatsu wrote:-Twilight-powered Bathe in Light is hilariously powerful and blows anything that dark has completely out of the water. I mean, for one, vanilla Bathe in Light could use a straight nerf anyway. Second, if light gets more healing, dark needs something too, because they do more or less the same damage right now. There is Shadow Simulacrum, but because it doesn't work on bosses whatsoever, it's a really niche ability that you're locked out of using exactly when you need it most.
As for the bosses, I think I will go with edge's approach of "dividing stuff by rank". In this case stuff will be damage output.
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grayswandir
- Uruivellas
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Re: Luminosity Alpha - Illuminate the Enemy!
I still think that a yellow resource cost making light stronger and a grey resource cost making dark stronger is a lot more intuitive than any other system.donkatsu wrote:Currently, yellow is already color coded to mean "powered by Sun", ie gets stronger with more luminosity, and grey is color coded to mean "powered by the Moon", ie gets stronger with less luminosity. This is separate from whether it moves your luminosity up or down. In fact, most (but not all) things that are powered by the Sun move your luminosity down, because you're using up the thing that you're powered by and mechanically, to have a negative feedback loop instead of a positive one. The reverse is true for the Moon. So you can only use the yellow/grey color code for one set of things, whether it's associated with Sun/Moon or whether it moves your luminosity up or down, otherwise the colors will be confusing.
To make it more clear, instead of phrasing it as a cost, could we just display how much it actually changes luminosity by? Instead of "Luminosity Cost: 20", just have "Alters Luminosity: -20". To me, "costs" don't make nearly as much sense with this weird resource setup.
Addons: Arcane Blade Tweaks, Fallen Race, Monk Class, Weapons Pack
Currently working on Elementals. It's a big project, so any help would be appreciated.
Currently working on Elementals. It's a big project, so any help would be appreciated.
Re: Luminosity Alpha - Illuminate the Enemy!
Might as well go the full way and write "Increases Luminosity" and "Decreases Luminosity".
Re: Luminosity Alpha - Illuminate the Enemy!
Agreed. This system is supposed to make the ridiculous resource management of Anorithils (and to a lesser extent, Sun Paladins) simpler. Not simple, but not so annoying as it is now. Having very clear costs would be a good step to take.
I'm not crying. I'm offering a sacrifice to DarkGod in hopes he'll show favor to me.
It hasn't worked yet.
It hasn't worked yet.
Re: Luminosity Alpha - Illuminate the Enemy!
Yeah that makes sense too.
Re: Luminosity Alpha - Illuminate the Enemy!
Nerfs and Buffs
Never ask which is which.
Twilight's calculations no longer take sustains into account, so taking sustains will now actually lower your damage output. You're welcome.
Blood Red Moon is now a percentage bonus. You're welcome.
Damage nerfs reduced.
Bathe of Light no longer ridiculous. Still good, though.
Providence's heal can crit now.
Corona range lowered to 5 from 6. Dunno how I feel about that.
Display changes.
Edit: also Shadow Simulacrum is significantly more durable/useful now, but, I suppose, less of a damage source.
Never ask which is which.
Twilight's calculations no longer take sustains into account, so taking sustains will now actually lower your damage output. You're welcome.
Blood Red Moon is now a percentage bonus. You're welcome.
Damage nerfs reduced.
Bathe of Light no longer ridiculous. Still good, though.
Providence's heal can crit now.
Corona range lowered to 5 from 6. Dunno how I feel about that.
Display changes.
Edit: also Shadow Simulacrum is significantly more durable/useful now, but, I suppose, less of a damage source.
Re: Luminosity Alpha - Illuminate the Enemy!
We need to rethink theme versus talent costs.
Stuff that makes sense right now: pure damage spells
For light, Searing Light is a high damage spell that costs some resources, while for dark, Searing Light does almost no damage but it generates some resources. Light wants to use it, while dark doesn't want to use it but has to as part of resource management. Seems thematic enough. Same goes for Moonlight Ray, Firebeam, and Shadow Blast.
Stuff that makes sense right now: the Light tree.
For light, the Light tree is both a generator, and a strong utility tree. For dark, the Light tree is almost useless except for Providence, which costs resources instead of generating it, but it's still worth it because of the strong status removal. Still thematic.
Stuff that doesn't make sense: utility spells that cost the resource of their theme
Mind Blast primarily, but also "damage" spells where the damage component is a fairly minor part of their usefulness: Sun Flare, Starfall, Chants, and Hymns (except for Moonlight). Starting with Mind Blast, ostensibly it should be better for the dark side, except it does the exact same thing for both dark and light. The only difference is that it costs resources for dark, and generates resources for light, making it, in fact, a spell that light users favor more than dark. Hymn of Perseverance lowers dark damage by being negative sustain, while providing the same stun/blind/confuse immunity to both sides, making it in practice more of a light spell than a dark spell.
Basically, the cost needs to reflect the scaling for each side. If a spell is the exact same for both sides, and it has a Sun/Moon theme, then it needs to increase/decrease luminosity instead of the other way around. In the original proposal, Twilight really did scale everything light/dark themed, so that Mind Blast, for example, would be like Moonlight Ray in that it would cost resources for dark and be useful for dark, while generating resources for light and not be useful for light. Since the scaling is limited to damage and healing only, costs for non-damage/healing spells need to be switched around accordingly.
If arbitrary numbers can't be scaled with Twilight, then I would propose the following:
Sun Flare: Decreases luminosity by 5. Small damage difference => small cost difference
Sun Burst: Decreases luminosity by 20. The original idea of having it be a big cost fluctuator was contingent on it being very strong for its own side, but Sun Burst damage is not that impressive.
Starfall: Increases luminosity by 20. Same thing for Starfall, and also the stun doesn't scale.
Jumpgate: The opposite sustain cost
Mind Blast: Decreases luminosity by 10. Slightly more favorable to dark now, even though the effect of the talent is still the same for both sides.
Hymns that aren't Hymn of Moonlight: The opposite sustain cost. Decreases the light side of Twilight bonuses, basically the same effect for both sides.
Chants that aren't Chant of Light: The opposite sustain cost. Decreases the dark side of Twilight bonuses, basically the same effect for both sides.
On a side note, seeing as how Hymn of Moonlight is also actually a Corona build sustain in disguise, I could see Chant of Light being reworked to be similar. Like it releases a mini-Sunburst (that can crit, of course) whenever you receive a healing effect. Cast Providence and Bathe in Light and watch the Coronas fly.
Edit:
Oh, oh, wait! Arbitrary numbers can't be scaled with Twilight, but I noticed that you did make Twilight Surge and Corona behave differently depending on whether your luminosity was positive or negative. Then how about something like that for the non-scaling utility stuff?
Mind Blast has half the confuse power if your luminosity is positive.
The effects of Hymns/Chants are halved if your luminosity is on the wrong side.
etc etc... would this work?
Stuff that makes sense right now: pure damage spells
For light, Searing Light is a high damage spell that costs some resources, while for dark, Searing Light does almost no damage but it generates some resources. Light wants to use it, while dark doesn't want to use it but has to as part of resource management. Seems thematic enough. Same goes for Moonlight Ray, Firebeam, and Shadow Blast.
Stuff that makes sense right now: the Light tree.
For light, the Light tree is both a generator, and a strong utility tree. For dark, the Light tree is almost useless except for Providence, which costs resources instead of generating it, but it's still worth it because of the strong status removal. Still thematic.
Stuff that doesn't make sense: utility spells that cost the resource of their theme
Mind Blast primarily, but also "damage" spells where the damage component is a fairly minor part of their usefulness: Sun Flare, Starfall, Chants, and Hymns (except for Moonlight). Starting with Mind Blast, ostensibly it should be better for the dark side, except it does the exact same thing for both dark and light. The only difference is that it costs resources for dark, and generates resources for light, making it, in fact, a spell that light users favor more than dark. Hymn of Perseverance lowers dark damage by being negative sustain, while providing the same stun/blind/confuse immunity to both sides, making it in practice more of a light spell than a dark spell.
Basically, the cost needs to reflect the scaling for each side. If a spell is the exact same for both sides, and it has a Sun/Moon theme, then it needs to increase/decrease luminosity instead of the other way around. In the original proposal, Twilight really did scale everything light/dark themed, so that Mind Blast, for example, would be like Moonlight Ray in that it would cost resources for dark and be useful for dark, while generating resources for light and not be useful for light. Since the scaling is limited to damage and healing only, costs for non-damage/healing spells need to be switched around accordingly.
If arbitrary numbers can't be scaled with Twilight, then I would propose the following:
Sun Flare: Decreases luminosity by 5. Small damage difference => small cost difference
Sun Burst: Decreases luminosity by 20. The original idea of having it be a big cost fluctuator was contingent on it being very strong for its own side, but Sun Burst damage is not that impressive.
Starfall: Increases luminosity by 20. Same thing for Starfall, and also the stun doesn't scale.
Jumpgate: The opposite sustain cost
Mind Blast: Decreases luminosity by 10. Slightly more favorable to dark now, even though the effect of the talent is still the same for both sides.
Hymns that aren't Hymn of Moonlight: The opposite sustain cost. Decreases the light side of Twilight bonuses, basically the same effect for both sides.
Chants that aren't Chant of Light: The opposite sustain cost. Decreases the dark side of Twilight bonuses, basically the same effect for both sides.
On a side note, seeing as how Hymn of Moonlight is also actually a Corona build sustain in disguise, I could see Chant of Light being reworked to be similar. Like it releases a mini-Sunburst (that can crit, of course) whenever you receive a healing effect. Cast Providence and Bathe in Light and watch the Coronas fly.
Edit:
Oh, oh, wait! Arbitrary numbers can't be scaled with Twilight, but I noticed that you did make Twilight Surge and Corona behave differently depending on whether your luminosity was positive or negative. Then how about something like that for the non-scaling utility stuff?
Mind Blast has half the confuse power if your luminosity is positive.
The effects of Hymns/Chants are halved if your luminosity is on the wrong side.
etc etc... would this work?
Re: Luminosity Alpha - Illuminate the Enemy!
Minor BALANCE release.
- Activate Twilight to temporarily achieve a state of Truest Balance, removing all damage modifiers. Also makes certain talents behave differently but I'm not telling.
- Now you cannot cast pos-benefitting spells if they would bring you through the neg limit, or vice versa.
- Darkest Light sustain cost changed to 20 from -10.
- Corona is now random until 20% of your truemaximums, and works until ~50-90% of them. I may change that to realmaximums.
- Activate Twilight to temporarily achieve a state of Truest Balance, removing all damage modifiers. Also makes certain talents behave differently but I'm not telling.
- Now you cannot cast pos-benefitting spells if they would bring you through the neg limit, or vice versa.
- Darkest Light sustain cost changed to 20 from -10.
- Corona is now random until 20% of your truemaximums, and works until ~50-90% of them. I may change that to realmaximums.
Re: Luminosity Alpha - Illuminate the Enemy!
i'm not quite sure what is going on, but i went from having 50 max lum to 30 after i leveled up, and when increase blood red moon's level, my max decreases. i went from having lvl2 BRM to 3, and my max went from 38 to 25
I'll restart tome with only this addon active and report back
edit; works correctly in a vacuum. one of the sixty or so addons i have must be causing a problem.
I'll restart tome with only this addon active and report back
edit; works correctly in a vacuum. one of the sixty or so addons i have must be causing a problem.
Re: Luminosity Alpha - Illuminate the Enemy!
New Release!
- Lots of fixes around the board, item support somewhat added but I'm not sure.
- Twilight Surge moved to Twilight and changed a bit
- Start Fury now has Lunacy which is a bit modified targeted Mind Blast
- Sunlight now has Blazing Blast which is light damage DoT resist-shred
- Lots of fixes around the board, item support somewhat added but I'm not sure.
- Twilight Surge moved to Twilight and changed a bit
- Start Fury now has Lunacy which is a bit modified targeted Mind Blast
- Sunlight now has Blazing Blast which is light damage DoT resist-shred
Re: Luminosity Alpha - Illuminate the Enemy!
-Sun Flare's ignore blind immunity description sits at 4% regardless of luminosity; not sure how it's actually working
-Blazing Blast's description doesn't take into account +% damage.
-Blazing Blast and Lunacy can be cast regardless of luminosity.
-Sun Burst ignores blind immunity but doesn't blind.
-Lua error on Sun Burst every time it does damage but doesn't kill. It's not going on cooldown when it does this.
-Starfall's description has some numbers swapped, looks like.
-Blazing Blast's description doesn't take into account +% damage.
-Blazing Blast and Lunacy can be cast regardless of luminosity.
-Sun Burst ignores blind immunity but doesn't blind.
-Lua error on Sun Burst every time it does damage but doesn't kill. It's not going on cooldown when it does this.
-Starfall's description has some numbers swapped, looks like.
Re: Luminosity Alpha - Illuminate the Enemy!
- Tooltip error, fixed;donkatsu wrote:-Sun Flare's ignore blind immunity description sits at 4% regardless of luminosity; not sure how it's actually working
-Blazing Blast's description doesn't take into account +% damage.
-Blazing Blast and Lunacy can be cast regardless of luminosity.
-Sun Burst ignores blind immunity but doesn't blind.
-Lua error on Sun Burst every time it does damage but doesn't kill. It's not going on cooldown when it does this.
-Starfall's description has some numbers swapped, looks like.
- Likewise;
- Thanks, fixed;
- Tooltip error, fixed;
- Thanks, fixed;
- Tooltip error, fixed.
TL;DR I really screw tooltips up.