[1.7.4.] Quantum Slider class

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Tradewind_Rider
Thalore
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Re: [1.7.4.] Quantum Slider class

#31 Post by Tradewind_Rider »

Luxamian Chalk Circle

Hi All!

I made some fixes/changes and added new content to Quantum Slider:


Fixes:

Fixed some typos.

Improved the descriptions of Tears of the Forsaken and Temporal Ignition to directly mention the talents names that have a combo with them.

Added nolock=true to Grave of the Fireflies targeting to make it more comfortable to use with hotkeys.

Fixed 5 Minutes Alones targeting, it can not be placed now on actors.

Added raw defense bonus to Adapt effect too (on top of the flat damage armour).

Fixed a bug with Adapt and Q Energy interaction.


New Content:

Added a new race: the Vorloth.
They are not from Eyal, they are an alien race from planet Luxam.

Due to this fact, they can not be Wilders.

They are magical beings, and they fit more for a ranged class, especially for a spellcaster.
But they can be played with any class ofc (except Wilders).
With melee classes, they will be harder but still playable.

I also added a special starting zone and a special starting quest to the Vorloths, including a very very very very strong boss fight. This fight is intended to try with a Vorloth Quantum Slider and it is meant to be a not-easy fight even for a Slider.
This means, with a normal-game class, the final fight would be crazy hard and likely only doable with planning, preparation and correct strategy.

This fight is meant to be a way harder fight than any other post-game fights, so do not be disappointed if you die in the first few tries. It is NOT balanced!

The images ofc are not my work (I can not draw :) )
Vorloth sprites are the great artwork of Rexorcorum!



P.S.: Now, I did not had a lot of time for testing, so I will really appreciate for feedbacks and I am planning to fine-tune the content according to the players feedbacks.


Thank you for playing with Vorloth & Slider and for any feedback!
Have a great time!

Tradewind_Rider
Thalore
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:55 pm

Re: [1.7.4.] Quantum Slider class

#32 Post by Tradewind_Rider »

Hi All!

I made some changes and added new content to Quantum Slider addon:


Changes to Vorloths:

Reduced the experience penalty from 40% to -10% (they now progressing very quickly).

Reduced the racial level requirements to 0,6,12,24.

Vorloths do not need to learn their racial talents now, they automatically evolve.

Added +100% disease immunity.

Added +1 dexterity.

Added the bikini/mankini special cosmetic option for them.

Changed Interference's damage reduction from OnTakeDamage to OnTakeHit. It now triggers later, but it defends against displacement shields damage reflection.

Changed the racial effects apply power from accuracy/spellpower to accuracy/mindpower/spellpower, in order to make them more versatile (they are also good with mindcasters).

Changed their healing talents scaling from Magic to Dex/Mag, in order to make them more versatile (they are also good with dexterity based classes).

Nerfed the slow that they apply on enemies.

I made a new Race Evolution for them. In order to play on higher difficulty, they can gain flat damage cap without turning to a ghoul (the player can continue watching their beautiful vorloth instead of watching an ugly ghoul).



Nerfed the damage of the enemies in their starting zone in order to make the start easier.

Added an extra surprise effect to the secret item in their starting zone. :)


They have now two alternative post game bosses:
Quantum Slider Vorloths have a very very strong boss.
Non Quantum Slider Vorloths have a way weaker boss (it is still stronger than vanilla game post game bosses).



Changes to Quantum Slider:

Fixed an issue with summoning Kurgarru. It can be summoned now even if the player does not have line of sight (fully surrounded by terrain).

Added extra visual for summoning Kurgarru. Summoning it is now cool!

Buffed Kurgarru. By following Path of Sunken Hopes, Kurgarru can also learn some of the players other Paths. Also if the player has Too Fast to See activated, Kurgarru will follow the players movements (Double Trouble with Lightning Fury ...).

Kurgarru now also receives healing from both Dhikr and In Great Need.


Nerfed both Electric Repulsion's and Lightning Fury's percentage damage. These are weaker now, but still very strong.


Fixed a vanilla game issue with Emit Photon. Normally, cone talents can not be used with the mouse auto-target on click option. Emit Photon now can be used.

Added a fixed value to Sands of Times damage increase. It is now also nice even with very low spellpower.



Thank you for playing with Vorloth & Slider and for any feedback!
Have a great time!

Zizzo
Sher'Tul Godslayer
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Re: [1.7.4.] Quantum Slider class

#33 Post by Zizzo »

Tradewind_Rider wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2024 7:43 am Added the bikini/mankini special cosmetic option for them.
[sound F/X: testing] And I can confirm that since Vorloths use the "elf_male" character doll under the hood, you can still get your favorite color of bikini or mankini via Bikini Colors. :mrgreen: (Interestingly, while the Vorloth race birth descriptor expressly only allows the male sex birth descriptor, the character creation dialog still lets you select female, and the "elf_male" character doll has both bikini and mankini images, the former amounting to roughly a bikini bottom:
vorloth-swimwear.png
vorloth-swimwear.png (25.17 KiB) Viewed 8083 times
So technically, you can be a topless female Vorloth… :twisted: )
"Blessed are the yeeks, for they shall inherit Arda..."

Tradewind_Rider
Thalore
Posts: 182
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Re: [1.7.4.] Quantum Slider class

#34 Post by Tradewind_Rider »

Haha, those bikinis look very cool! :)
Grat!
Zizzo wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2024 1:55 am Interestingly, while the Vorloth race birth descriptor expressly only allows the male sex birth descriptor, the character creation dialog still lets you select female, and the "elf_male" character doll has both bikini and mankini images
I just used what the undeads have:

https://git.net-core.org/tome/t-engine4 ... d.lua#L106

https://git.net-core.org/tome/t-engine4 ... d.lua#L201

I guess, this setting just does not work...


Also this is the case with Skeleton and Yeek too (the bikini/mankini thing), female Skeletons and Yeeks also just have a panties but no bras.

Zizzo
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Re: [1.7.4.] Quantum Slider class

#35 Post by Zizzo »

So, I think this is a bug:
  • The Vorloth race descriptor sets starting_quest to the Vorloth racial starting quest — which we should always get, since the Luxamite parent descriptor sets _forbid_start_override to prevent classes from overriding the starting quest.
  • The Vorloth racial starting quest forwards to "Future echoes", the Chronomancer starting quest.
  • The Chronomancer starting quest is supposed to forward to the player's original racial starting quest, and the Vorloth race descriptor appears to be trying to set that up by pointing chronomancer_race_start_quest to the Vorloth racial starting quest.
  • The problem is, by this point we've already finished the Vorloth racial starting quest. :?
I think the quest we want to forward to at this point is "Into the darkness", which is what all the other racial starting quests forward to. That's what I'm arranging for in Sandworm Cavern SONAR for now, at least (since it kind of depends on the player getting that quest).
"Blessed are the yeeks, for they shall inherit Arda..."

Tradewind_Rider
Thalore
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:55 pm

Re: [1.7.4.] Quantum Slider class

#36 Post by Tradewind_Rider »

Hi!

First of all, thanks for playing with my addon, i am glad you liked it. :)
Zizzo wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2024 3:50 am The problem is, by this point we've already finished the Vorloth racial starting quest.
I do not really understood well, what is the issue here sorry.

The Vorloth starting quest is not finished after you did the starting zone.

The vorloth starting quest can be only finished, after you beated Elandar & Argoniel in the East.
And after you won the game, you have to go back to Zemekkys at Point Zero.

Then Zemekkys will open a dimensional gate to you and send to to the n-th dimension, where you
will face the Worldeater again, but this time the World Eater is much younger, so you actually do
have a chance against it.
(The first time you meet with it in the future [your original time, the start of the game at Luxam], it is already too powerful
becasue it is very old at that point. So Zemekkys brought you back to the past, where the World Eater is just born [the Maj'Eyal time, it is millenias back in the past]).

And then, if you kill the World Eater in that special zone, then you will finish the Vorloth starting quest, and will even gain a special achievment.

I hope i could explain the events well, sorry for my bad english.

This is explained by Zemekkys in-game when he saves your life and he brings you back in time, just before you get the option
to accept or decline the Future Echoes quest (chrono starting quest).

So, Vorloths do not get the "investigate sandworm lair or old forest" quest.
Vorloths want to save the whole multiverse, they have to defeat the World Eater, who wants to swallow all universes.
If it starts swallowing universes, it will become undefeatable again.
So the purpose of the Vorloth quest is to revise history, and alter your original timeline, where the World Eater not only
destroys your homeworld, but also all universes.

I feel, with these premises, it would be strange to give a quest to vorloths : " go kill some worms in a lair or kill some treants in a forest".
While you already know, the whole multiverse will be eradicated and only YOU can prevent this from happening.

Tradewind_Rider
Thalore
Posts: 182
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Re: [1.7.4.] Quantum Slider class

#37 Post by Tradewind_Rider »

I made some screenshots from the game, i hopethese will be helpful.

This is what Zemekkys says (or should say) after the World Eater destroyed Luxam and killed you.
(so when you die at your starting zone by the World Eater)
vorl_d.png
vorl_d.png (231.32 KiB) Viewed 6957 times

And this is how your quest log should look at this point:
vorl_f.png
vorl_f.png (138.73 KiB) Viewed 6957 times

So you should search for the Void Portal and prevent it from being opened.
This refers to Elandar and Argoniel, theyare the two sorcerers whom Zemekkys mentions to you.

If these are not happening, or you see something else other than these images/quest states,
that is a bug.

PseudoLoneWolf
Wyrmic
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Re: [1.7.4.] Quantum Slider class

#38 Post by PseudoLoneWolf »

I actually just discovered this mod because of the recent forum posts about it and have been playing one for the last couple days, so I can weigh in here!

All of that is correct and happens as intended, I think what Zizzo is saying and what I also experienced is that after you complete the first part of The Fate of Luxam quest, you're then immediately prompted by Zemekkys into Future Echoes. This initially seemed like it could have been unintended, as it doesn't make a lot of sense for the Vorloth to be immediately pressed into service for this - s/he has better things to worry about, especially if not actually playing as a chronomancer class! But I can see in Zemekkys' dialogue he leads in to it from the end of the Fate of Luxam blurb, and it's understandable how the Vorloth may be concerned enough about the state of the local timeline to do this favor for Zemekkys, so I don't view this as a problem, especially because you can just choose to decline the quest if you desire.

More importantly, from a mechanics standpoint, we've inverted the typical order of Future Echoes > Racial Starting area/quest to become Vorloth racial quest > Future Echoes and then Future Echoes tries to forward into the racial starting quest again - which we already have as an active quest and have already completed this part of. This then orphans the Into The Darkness quest trigger.

However, looking at my active save, I have Into The Darkness logged and completed, though I'm not sure if I was able to actually pick the quest up anywhere before simply having it logged complete upon completing the four areas pertaining to it. Unfortunately I wasn't paying that close of attention at the time and it'll take me a couple of days to run another character up to Dreadfell to check.

Edit: [sfx: character creation] Zizzo, did you mean "Of Trolls and Damp Caves", the starter quest that sends you to Trollmire and Kor'Pul? Because that one doesn't exist on my Vorloth Slider save. Still not sure where I picked up Into The Darkness if not from completing that one, though.
Let slip the toast of war.

Tradewind_Rider
Thalore
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:55 pm

Re: [1.7.4.] Quantum Slider class

#39 Post by Tradewind_Rider »

Hi!

Thanks for playing and for your feedback! I hope you enjoyed it! :)

Yes, it is intended for the Vorloth to have the option to help Zemekkys with the Morass,and itis intended as only optionaly, so not necessary.
Zemekkys just saved your life, so helping him out before you start your adventuring is totally reasonable if you wish to.
It is up to the players conscience. :)

(Also, imo the Shard of Crystallized Time is a really nice item, and i use it on Quantum Slider in the early-mid game
so it is also beneficial to do the Future Echoes quest)

PseudoLoneWolf wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2024 1:33 am More importantly, from a mechanics standpoint, we've inverted the typical order of Future Echoes > Racial Starting area/quest to become Vorloth racial quest > Future Echoes and then Future Echoes tries to forward into the racial starting quest again - which we already have as an active quest and have already completed this part of. This then orphans the Into The Darkness quest trigger.
This part, i do not fully understood well, i have to check the code and figure out this sequence first in order to understand what is the issue here and why is it an issue.
Becasue it is intended to not gain the "Of Trolls and Damp Caves" and the "Into the Darkness" quests.
And this is what happening., so everything works as itended.
PseudoLoneWolf wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2024 1:33 am However, looking at my active save, I have Into The Darkness logged and completed, though I'm not sure if I was able to actually pick the quest up anywhere before simply having it logged complete upon completing the four areas pertaining to it. Unfortunately I wasn't paying that close of attention at the time and it'll take me a couple of days to run another character up to Dreadfell to check.
The player automatically gains the "Into the Darkness" quest if you kill any one of the four quest related boss (Maze boss, Daikara boss, Old Forest boss, SWL boss)
So the player CAN gain this quest later anyway, if you go into any of these four zones and kill a boss.

PseudoLoneWolf
Wyrmic
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Re: [1.7.4.] Quantum Slider class

#40 Post by PseudoLoneWolf »

The problem seems to be that some other mods rely on the Into The Darkness quest triggers, but I'll let Zizzo expand on that, I'm not a modder.

Secondarily, without following the start of the main quest chain this mod wouldn't be very friendly to players who aren't already familiar with the game and zone order, though I suppose it wasn't intended for them in the first place. Still, for clarity and compatibility's sake, I personally feel it would be a good idea to chain into the starter main quests. Even if it does, as you say, maybe break the immersion a little bit.

Despite all this though (this particular detail hardly affects my enjoyment of the class) I am having quite a lot of fun with this character, I'll try to remember to report back in here once I either die or win. I've made what feels to be a quite overpowered Path of Temporis build that just obliterated the Master both times before I could even complete my damage rotation. The Googolplex tree is a menace.
Let slip the toast of war.

Tradewind_Rider
Thalore
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Re: [1.7.4.] Quantum Slider class

#41 Post by Tradewind_Rider »

PseudoLoneWolf wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2024 2:54 am Secondarily, without following the start of the main quest chain this mod wouldn't be very friendly to players who aren't already familiar with the game and zone order, though I suppose it wasn't intended for them in the first place. Still, for clarity and compatibility's sake, I personally feel it would be a good idea to chain into the starter main quests. Even if it does, as you say, maybe break the immersion a little bit
Ok, yes i see your point here.
If i would add the "normal" "Of Trolls and Damp Caves" quest for Vorloths, then it could be helpful for new players to have a clue where to go and what to do first.
Yes, my addon was not meant for new players who are not familiar with the game.
My thinking was: anyone who uses an addon and plays an addon race/class, already has to be familiar with the game at least a bit.
But sure, maybe this is not the situation for all cases, so adding the normal clues would be nice.
PseudoLoneWolf wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2024 2:54 am Despite all this though (this particular detail hardly affects my enjoyment of the class) I am having quite a lot of fun with this character, I'll try to remember to report back in here once I either die or win. I've made what feels to be a quite overpowered Path of Temporis build that just obliterated the Master both times before I could even complete my damage rotation. The Googolplex tree is a menace.
Haha, i am really glad you enjoy it.
My intention was to create a class that is powerful to encourage players to go up on difficulty and play on harder modes.
So Slider is purposedly very powerful.

I wanted to create all paths powerful, but of course some are stronger than others.

Path of the Seer, Path of the Eternal, Live Between the Ticks of a Second are 3 utility paths,
that may seem a bit weaker than the others, but they are still very useful.
Especially Path of the Seer ... it comos really well with either Path of the Stormrider and/or Path of Temporis. ;)

From the four main damage paths: Stormrider and Temporis are stronger than the others,
but Path of Pain can elevate all your damage to crazy levels, so it is really good if you pick it
if you also have any of Stormrider and/or Temporis.

Also do not underestimate the two locked generic trees: great power lies inboth of them. :)


I would be really glad for further feedback, especially from the post-game fight against the Worldeater.
But be really aware: if you are a Quantum Slider, the boss will be really devastating, so be prepared!

Non-Slider Vorloths have an easier version of the boss, becasue Slider is obviosuly overpowered.

I intentionally made the post-game boss fight super hard for Sliders, becasue Slider has high replayability,
it can be built in numerous ways. So it is a little bit of puzzle that you have to solve:
"how to beat this crazy boss". :)

PseudoLoneWolf
Wyrmic
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Re: [1.7.4.] Quantum Slider class

#42 Post by PseudoLoneWolf »

Behold: Barry, the fastest man in the universe. https://te4.org/characters/131233/tome/ ... 7019f94d79

I am going to preface all of this with the statement that I am not actually that good at this game and I play on Nightmare for my own enjoyment and sanity. That said, Quantum Slider is ludicrously overpowered for Nightmare. This build was pretty poorly optimized in several ways that I could identify and undoubtedly many more that I cannot, and there still was not one single creature in the entire game that posed me a significant threat when I encountered it save the post-game Slider superboss.

I am also not that good at writing character reports, so I've ripped off someone else's build guide and am using that as a framework. Bear with me here.

Build TL:DR

Class Talents

Chronomancy / Quantum Theory 3+/1/1/5
Chronomancy / Quantum Coherence 2/2/1/3
Chronomancy / Reality Sculpting 5/3/1/1
Chronomancy / Chronodynamics 5/5/5/1+
Chronomancy / Field Extension 2/3/1/1
Chronomancy / Pocket Universe 3/3/4/4
Chronomancy / Googolplex Existence 5/5/3/5

Generic Talents

Technique / Combat training 1/3/1/0/0/0 (these are a lot of wasted points, mostly)
Chronomancy / Prajna 5/2/2/5
Chronomancy / Beads in a String 5/3/3/5
Chronomancy / Wanderlust 5/3/3/1
Chronomancy / Anomaly Alchemy 5/1/4/1
Chronomancy / Paths 0/0/0/1/1/0/0/0
(Race/Vorloth and Ancient Chronomancy/Sorcery auto-fill with 1/1/1/1)

General Thoughts

You are made out of Goes Fast. Most of your offense and all of your considerable defense are all powered by Goes Fast. Speed stats are your number one priority on gear at all times and nearly any other stat can be sacrificed in pursuit of it. Vorloths can't use infusions, so movement infusion is out, but if playing another race those could be very powerful. Early game I focused on spellpower as a secondary gear stat, but late game when I had my paradox tuned to a comfortable 2100 (with 0% anomaly rate, it could have been significantly higher if I wanted to abuse Coccoon) the massive spellpower that gave me basically made most gear spell power unnecessary. At that point I switched to stacking as many out-of-phase bonuses as I could.

Typical fights went along these lines:
Cast Inertia Beam, autoexplore to the next fight.

Difficult fights went along these lines:
Turn 1: Rune of Reflection Shield, Coccoon, Too Fast To See, Everywhere At Once, (optionally) Moebius Strip; all zero cost actions and Moebius Strip could win a fight by itself in conjunction with Quantum Overcharge. Follow with Grave of the Fireflies to consume the first turn.
Subsequent turns: Inertia Beam, Emit Photon, Temporal Ignition, Googolplex Ways To Die, repeat whatever got its cooldown reset. If you actually did all the turn 1 setup most things won't survive past Emit Photon, and I don't think anything in the game survived past GWTD.

Some notable notes I took when playing:

- Saved the Yeek Wayist by accident just by walking in the door, Subject Z cast Illuminate which caused me to teleport upon taking damage, causing him to take 1594 temporal damage from Quantum Overcharge and exploding instantly
- Killed Fyrk in one shot on the first turn he appeared
- I went into an orc vault, one of the "hidden vault"s in the floor. One of the visible enemies threw a fireball at me as his first action. At over 2,000% movement speed and 106% projectile slow with the Emblem of Evasion, I had killed everyone in the entire vault, picked up all the loot, and exited out the stairs before the fireball landed. In other situations I was pretty regularly dodging incoming spell projectiles from melee distance, as they spawn in their caster's square.
- One shot every single backup guardian except the Corrupted Sand Wyrm (and Pale Drake who always requires two shots)
- Atamathon took all of four game turns and didn't actually manage to hit me
- Also four turns to take out both High Peak sorcerers, didn't even bother with the portals, Aeryn essentially didn't move from her starting square and I don't think either of us took any damage, and I got the achievement for completing the main quest with zero deaths for the first time.
- Postgame Slider superboss deleted me from reality in 2 turns and was at full health when I died, after hitting it with Inertia Beam and GWTD each of which have individually one-shotted every other creature in the universe.

Anyways, onto the build.

Index

1. Cheat sheet
2. Build rationale and analysis
3. Change log

Cheat Sheet

Stat distribution priority
Primary: MAG, WIL (we pump willpower to help reduce the paradox fail chance)
Secondary: CUN, STR/CON to taste

Category Point Order (you get an extra cat point from taking Taltos)
Inscription, Googolplex Existence, Pocket Universe, Anomaly Alchemy, Inscription, put wyrm bile into whatever you want (I stacked mine into Chronodynamics mastery as I was already level 50 when I got the point, already had max inscriptions, and wasn't getting any more talent points. There is room here for optimization if planned properly)

Inscriptions
I used Shielding (then Reflection once I found it), Shatter Afflictions, and Blink. Once I unlocked 4th slot, I put on the Rune of the Rift but I don't think I ever used it once.

Prodigies
Taltos, then Adept. Adept is almost certainly not the best choice here, as roughly 80% of your talents scale with raw levels, not effective levels. However, the ones that do scale with Adept scale quite well.

Notable options instead of Adept include Endless Woes or Master of Disaster, Aether Permeation, Arcane Amp Drone, or Revisionist History if you just want to be an asshole to RNGesus. I actually got both halves of Telos' Staff this run shortly after taking Adept and cursed myself for not saving the prodigy point to finally build that thing, but I have no idea if the staff would have actually benefited me more than the Rod of Sarrilon or the randunique I ended the game with.

Equipment priority
Speed, spellpower(early), temporal dmg, temporal penetration, spell crit, increase crit damage, defense, stun/confusion/silence resist, elemental resists.

Alchemist quest
I didn't do a single alchemist quest lmao whoops

Escorts
This is open for theorycrafting, I got like 4 defilers as escorts and I didn't want any of their curses so I just put those points into stats. Tinkers could be hilariously powerful here if you find any but they're a big generic point sink that you may not want to commit to. Chants are probably good options if offered. I picked up Vitality off a warrior escort because I always do that but I didn't see a lot of return off it on this character. Most enemies were either hitting shields or else not hitting me at all.

Weapon Choice
Staff with the highest spellpower and temporal damage bonus you can find. The randunique I found for my endgame staff had a +shield power mod which was very helpful. I put points into heavy armor intending to use a short staff and shield, and I found some pretty good shield options to use, but I never found a short staff that was good enough to make me want to swap off my 2H staves.

Class Talents

Chronomancy / Quantum Theory
[3] Not Really Here - This is one of your core powers and it can go up to 5/5 if you desire. However, I kept it at 2 most of the game and bumped it to 3 late, and got plenty of mileage out of that. The paradox tuning is important for not exploding yourself in combat but the teleport-on-taking-damage is what we're really here for as that makes a potent combo with Quantum Overcharge as well as just ignoring a large percent of the triggering damage.
[1] Always On The Run - One point, occasionally useful, but it isn't a teleport so it's one of our last resort movement options. You'll have no problem charging it up to be used when you need it at one point.
[1] Just A Blur - Never used this once. Just a 1pt tax. Could be useful as an emergency escape when Moebius Strip is on CD but one point serves that function fine.
[5] Dimensional Tuning - Easy 5/5 for the CD reduction alone, the tuning is a powerful side effect. Giving Too Fast To See maximum uptime is a top priority.

Chronomancy / Quantum Coherence
[2] Adapt - Adapt is core for other builds, but I never really had the spare points to dump here. In fact this whole tree didn't really get the love it deserves in this build. One point early to reach Polymorph and Bondbreaker, salt more points here later if you plan on taking punches.
[2] Polymorph - Speed breakpoint, 2 points early. Polymorph is the first skill in our list with a speed breakpoint, so I'll take the time here to talk about them. You'll want to 5/5 Too Fast To See as early as possible which will give you around 600-something% movespeed. All the skills with a speed breakpoint will let you easily hit this breakpoint from the beginning of the game and no support beyond 5/5 TFTS with 2 points. Basically, if you find something threatening, hit the afterburners and all your breakpoint skills will come online. Later in the game once you have some gear support for move speed, it is possible to have these breakpoint skills up at all times just under your normal, non-TFTS movespeed, but it will require higher investment in your breakpoint skills. I left most of them at 2 points, personally, as having them up during TFTS became all that was necessary (especially as TFTS's cooldown decreases with investment in Dimensional Tuning). Polymorph is one of our better breakpoint skills, applying silence and disarm to enemies in an AoE around us every time we move, which is frequently 6-20 times per enemy turn.
[1] Bondbreaker - 1 point. Occasionally great for ambushing or escaping, but terrain destruction is often more trouble than it is benefit. A single point blows up all terrain in radius 6 which is beyond plenty.
[3] Eternal Core - 3-5 points, great defensive utility.

Chronomancy / Reality Sculpting
[5] Emit Photon - One of our primary damage skills, off the primary damage type. Occasionally useful for taking out things resistant to temporal damage before you have good respen, but the primary use case of Emit Photon is to inflict Irradiation, to be followed up by Temporal Ignition.
[3] Tears of the Forsaken - I didn't even put points into this until I unlocked Anomaly Alchemy. It could be an extremely good skill for a different build. I dropped 3 points in it to use it in Alchemy imbues but this wasn't a heavy hitter on this build. It is, however, an extremely effective AoE debuff when combined with...
[1] Soften Matter - 1 pt for the effect rider, all saves reduced by 46%.
[1] Sands of Time - 1 pt for the effect rider, all damage increased by 64% and automatic talent disabling.

If you actually build into using Tears, which I didn't, I could see it being absolutely nutty. But one of the joys of this class is that it has like 5 really good builds that are exclusive due to talent point economy.

Chronomancy / Chronodynamics
[5] Inertia Beam - 5/5, bread and butter. This is your first response to the existence of an opponent. Killing everything in sight from 13 range away and out of their LOS range is pretty nice (more on this later).
[5] Temporal Ignition - 5/5, bread and butter. If anything survives your Inertia Beam, follow up with Emit Photon and then this. Provided it survives, which most things won't, it'll be pretty close to dead and you'll have given yourself a fresh damage shield.
[5] Stasis Web - if you enjoyed killing everything in sight from 13 range and out of their LOS, you should try killing everything out of sight from 26 range away and around cover. Stasis Web takes Inertia Beam from being simply overpowered to being ludicrously overpowered. Entire vaults of enemies fall in a single blow. Gods and demons get put in the f*n dirt before they even knew you existed. This is the single most overpowered attack spell I have had the pleasure of wielding in this universe and I am a regular Chronomancer enjoyer so that is really saying something.
[1] Siphon Speed - you could 4 this to make use of one of the better Paths but I didn't. 1 point adds some nice extra slow to everything you do, but frankly, most things die in one hit anyway, so this might just be skippable.

Chronomancy / Field Extension
[2] Alpha Strike - Speed breakpoint, 2 points early. Free turns every once in a while, this supports the primary objective of Goes Fast.
[3] Quicksilver Armor - Speed breakpoint, 2 points early. Also actually one of our primary defensive skills. I bumped this to 3 later and I found a 1.3k shield to be sufficient in most cases, but it is a good candidate for 5/5.
[1] Dhikr - Great skill, 1 point is all that's necessary. Heal 500-1000 health every time you kill something. The temporal weavers it warns you about are a complete non-issue, I killed every one of those with melee bonk attacks just out of principle.
[1] Temporal Induction - 1 point if you took Siphon Speed, you can probably ignore this and put the two points from it and SS somewhere more useful in this build. Tears maybe.

Chronomancy / Pocket Universe
[3] Sins of the Past - Speed breakpoint, 2 points early. I put a third in this for radius and extra talent fail chance, one of the best debuffs in the game.
[3] Erratic Reconstruction - AoE sustain deactivation on teleport, which you will be doing constantly. This combined with GWTD will strip every single sustain off any boss enemy in one turn. It even does damage to boot. 3 points is plenty, especially with Adept.
[4] Coccoon - 4 points for Path. Coccoon can be abused to operate at ludicrously high Paradox Spellpower levels if you're up for the micromanagement. I was not, so I just abused Coccoon to unlock the requirements for Taltos, then left it alone. Didn't use this much.
[4] Too Far Too Long - CD reduction on teleport, excellent skill for this build. Good candidate for 5/5 but I didn't push it that far. This is mostly useful for having GWTD reset the cooldown of your other attacks. It also benefits Moebius Strip to a lesser extent.

Chronomancy / Googolplex Existence
[5] Grave of the Fireflies - 5 points, Aletheia makes these really nutty and we want as many on screen at a time as we can get.
[5] Quantum Overcharge - core and key to our build. 5/5 points ASAP. This one does a lot of heavy lifting with Adept.
[3] Aletheia - Great skill, but 3 points is plenty. This skill causes your Graves to follow you when you're sped up, and because we're taking Path of Temporis this means that the Graves attack every time we move while speedy. Pro move here is to drop a grave or two, pop TFTS, and then walk the grave through a wall to attack something that can't even see you let alone attack you back. I cleared nearly the entire Rak'shor pride like that just for funsies. It also deletes all ground traps from the game if you didn't already have enough reason to invest here.
[5] Googolplex Ways To Die - teleport right up next to a target several times and set off all the other riders we have on teleports. This is the Murder Button. There are precious few creatures in the game that are going to survive a single cast of this, and to add insult to (considerable) injury, Too Far Too Long means using GWTD resets the cooldown of all our other attacks too. This synergy ties Inertia Beam for most dangerous attack in the game, it's lower ranged but you can target it right through walls.

Generic Talents

Technique/Combat training
[1] Thick Skin - You should max this. I didn't invest in CON at all and therefore did not max this.
[3] Heavy Armour Training - 1pt for heavy armor accessories. Probably don't put the other two points in, they weren't useful to me.
[1] Light Armour Training - 5 pts for the defense rating, if you're feeling threatened on higher difficulties. I was not. I also didn't invest in DEX.
[0] Combat Accuracy - We have no use for this.
[0] Weapons Mastery - Nope.
[0] Dagger Mastery - Also nope.

Chronomancy / Prajna
[5] Shorten Distance - 5/5 ASAP. Increased sight and damage range are most of what makes this class so busted in regards to Inertia Beam.
[2] Auspex - 2 points gave me enemy sense in range of 17 which was plenty for me. Especially paranoid players may wish for more.
[2] Intuition - 2 points gives map range 14, see Auspex. both Auspex and Intuition also give a bit of useful confusion and teleport immunity but I don't see those as the main draw of the skills.
[5] Nirvana - 5/5, best defensive escape skill in the entire game by a large margin, I didn't use it once.

Chronomancy / Beads In A String
[5] Moebius Strip - I actually left this at 3 for most of the game, 5 is probably not necessary but additional teleport distance is rarely a bad thing. I stuck points here late when I wasn't sure where else to put them.
[3] Klein Bottle - Speed breakpoint, 2 points early. I bumped it to 3 later for bonus resistances.
[3] 5 Minutes Alone - Great skill, never used it but for once or twice. Taunt minion with traps around it, what's not to love?
[5] Everywhere At Once - Triggers all of your teleport riders every game turn and lets you freely swap position with enemies. This skill is core setup for any tough fights. Among other things it will make sure your out of phase bonuses stay up all the time.

Chronomancy / Wanderlust
[5] Too Fast To See - the single core utility skill of this class. 5/5 immediately, ignore everything else you can until then.
[3] Futurepast Shield - Speed breakpoint, 2 points early. I always kept wanting to put more points into this skill but honestly it isn't necessary. I bumped to 3 late game but 2 will carry you fine if you're smart.
[3] In Great Need - Great skill, never used it. Powerful healing and reset of quicksilver shield in a pinch. At 3/5 with my high paradox the heal vastly outstripped my actual HP maximum by more than three times so you might be able to get away with just a single point in this.
[1] Paradoxical Rearrange - 1 point for projectile slow and Aletheia support, we aren't using the mysticism tree in this build so we don't care about it beyond that. Adept helps boost the projectile slow quite a lot and that combined with Emblem of Evasion's projectile slow is how I managed the 106% projectile slow I talked about above.

Chronomancy / Anomaly Alchemy
[5] Anomalic Steps - 5/5 here is what let me crank my Paradox so high and benefit from the spellpower boost it gives. Also boosts spell crit bonus so don't forget to stack up some crit chance on gear.
[1] Reality Tides - 1 point tax, not especially useful in most cases
[4] Spacetime Bebop - Weaving spells into other spells is always a good time and this is a good way to strap Emit Photon onto Inertia Beam for even more damage and passive procs of irradiation so you don't have to waste a turn between Beam and Temporal ignition.
[1] Imbue Anomaly - I committed a great sin against this talent in my usage of it, especially having taken Path of the Seer to support it. If you're going for this tree then 5/5 Imbue Anomaly. It's worth it to increase the talent level of the talent you're imbuing. In my case, I used this as secondary fire support with small cast-on-cast% chances for Inertia Beam, Emit Photon, and Tears of the Forsaken. Tears on my robe was my primary way of inflicting Tears in combat.

Chronomancy / Paths
We take Path of Temporis first and later Path of the Seer on this build.

Prodigies

Taltos: Take this one first. Use Coccoon to achieve the paradox levels necessary. Unsustaining Not Really Here helps with this.

Second prodigy is really up to personal taste I think, I took Adept and it was fine though not nearly as good as it is on other classes.

Runes - Vorloth cannot use inscriptions

Shielding/Reflection: Standard fare here. 0% use time so just pop this before threatening combat.

Shatter Afflictions: We will use this to cleanse stuns and freezes, most other things can be walked off under TFTS.

Blink: Between Moebius Strip and this blink, we have a couple of good options for mobility if we need to make an escape or deal some precision teleport damage while GWTD is cooling down.

Rune of the Rift: Useful in theory and it gets a good damage boost from our spellpower and temporal damage bonuses but I don't think I ever used it for anything. This slot is a free slot and left as an exercise for the reader.

Final Thoughts:
We absolutely obliterated the entire game with next to no resistance from anything, and I was completely unable to even scratch the final superboss. It's certainly a puzzle that I think this build is missing a couple of pieces of. Being able to prevent healing and reduce resistances more effectively than I could might be key to making a dent in it, the 1500HP/turn healing factor was definitely a thorn in that fight.
Let slip the toast of war.

Tradewind_Rider
Thalore
Posts: 182
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Re: [1.7.4.] Quantum Slider class

#43 Post by Tradewind_Rider »

Thank you very much for the detailed and well written feedback, it was enjoyable to read it. :)


Yes, indeed Slider is too strong for nightmare, as I mentioned my intention was to let players play on higher difficulties – where they normally could not play. I think, you could easily beat insane with Slider and you would even have a good chance to beat madness.
So, you can experience very different games with Slider, that you normally could not experience. You wrote for several talents “this is a very strong defensive/escape talent but I never used it”. On madness+, this would change to “this is a very strong defensive/escape talent and it saved my life many times”.

I like that you went for Googolplex Existence, I worked a lot with the miniature planets, to make them good looking, cute and strong too.

As you already figured out, Slider can be built in numerous ways:

a, light and fire damage
b, physical damage
c, lightning damage
d, temporal damage
e+, and any kind of mixture of these above

Also, you can even build a “stationary” Slider, who does not even running fast, but instead negate its enemies (pinning and preventing them to do anything), but real focus is on speed and running fast, this kind of Slider will be more powerful.


As for Vorloths, who can not use Movement Infusions:

Movement Infusion is really nice with Slider, but you do not really need it/them.
Movement Infusions effect (Wild Speed) is short and also being removed if you do anything other than movement. Meanwhile your Too Fast To See is way longer, you can maintain it up continuously and it is not removed if you do something else.

And this is where Alpha Strike comes into the equation (with possible cooldown reductors: spell cooldown reduction [Dhikr + items] and flat cooldown shortening [Too Far Too Long]).
After every few movement, your non-instant offensive spells becomes instant, so while you are moving around and wrecking havoc you can countinously cast more and more little planets, Googolplex Ways to Die, Electric Repulsion or anything else.

And this is where Imbue Anomaly comes into the equation: your planets and your Lightning Fury can both trigger your talent_on_spell talents so e.g. you can trigger Inertia Beams while moving, and Inertia Beam will shorten the cooling down of your Googolplex Ways to Die.

I designed Vorloths for Slider even if I prevent them using Movement Infusion, they have:

a, passive movement speed
b, pinning and silence immunity
c, extra stats: Magic, Willpower and Cunning
d, extra category point and extra talent points

So, while I gave them a “twist” by not able to use Movement Infusions, they are the best race for Slider. Before I created them, I treated Cornac as the best Slider, the extra category and talent points are very powerful because Silder has many good talent trees and talents.


Now, for your comments about the class, I have to make two statements here:

a, I would like to give you a few of my own thoughts about some talents and combos and how I build my Sliders. Maybe you will have the mood for playing again but on a higher difficulty

b, these will be spoilers, so only read towards if you do not want to figure out things by yourself




SPOILERS


Category Points:

I do not unlock any new inscriptions with Slider. Even if Vorloths have 2 inscriptions at start and can only have 4 inscriptions maximum, unlocking new Slider trees is a stronger option in my opinion. I spend my starting category point on Anomaly Alchemy and I put 1-3 points into Anomalic Steps. I level up my stats as 1-1-1 Mag, Wil, Cun each level and Anomalic Steps really helps with Paradox management in the early game (and after Táltos, it is even more powerful).


Prodigies:

This is really funny, I just accidentally figured out what is the best second prodigy for Slider (the first is obviously Táltos). I did not designed this, so it is not intended, but Eye of the Tiger I crazy strong.
It can trigger on every self turn, and there is only a once-per-tick restriction with self turns, so that means Eye of the Tiger can trigger ten times per global turn (so, once per 10% of a turn).
And this means: a flat 20 cooling down reduction totally among all your spells per global turn.
So each turn, most of your spells cooldown will reset.


Escorts:

Slider has way stronger trees than any escort tree, so it is better to spend cat points on Slider trees. I just choose some stats if I manage to save one.

Also, I am not sure if you found the extra “escort” in the Spaceship at the Luxam starting zone. There is a hidden secret item there.

I made that item, because a Vorloth will be 4+ level when they arrive to Maj’Eyal, so they will have a lower chance to successfully save early game escorts (rare enemies will be present).



Talents – comments on your comments:

Always on the Run: the most useful there is the pin and stun immunity and not the option to Thumble.

Just a Blur: It is a better Wraithform, you can walk thorough both trees and walls and you can maintain it almost continuously. It increases quality of life greatly, if you are unaffected by terrain. You can just go wherever you want in straight lines and murderhobo everything. Also, it is great for escaping from a bad situation.


Bondbreaker: It is an AoE dig, so it opens up terrain and can possibly make more enemies see you, but you have a sustained Track and Vision so you always know what enemies are around. More importantly while it is doing the AoE dig, it also gives you absolute resistance (like Ethereal Form prodigy). The amount is scaling with the amount of dug tiles, so it can even give you a 70% absolute resistance, so a 70% damage reduction for several turns. It is also an AoE knockback and does the knockback after the dig, so it can help if you are surrounded by melee enemies.


Emit Photon: While it has lower damage and it is mainly the first part of the Temporal Ignition combo, it applies reduced vision on enemies. If you choose Path of Photofusion, this value will be doubled, so it reduces enemies vision range down to 1. So you can keep all enemies Blinded, even if they are completely blind immune.

Tears of the Forsaken: This is the second part of the Inertia Beam + Tears combo. Every enemy that has Inertia Slow effect will be pinned down every turn. This is a very reliable AoE pin. Some enemies have talents/effects that removes detrimental effects each turn (Unflinching Resolve, Providence, Vigilance) and having a debuff that is reapplied each turn is bypassing these annoying mechanism. So you can lock down most melee enemies pretty well.


Dhikr: it gives spell cooldown reduction and all of Sliders talents are spells. There is another effect that might not be noticeable if you are not Hunted! (the mechanism the madness difficulty has). On each kill, enemies ai_target is reset to nil (nothing) around you in the given range, so enemies stop hunting you down. Instead of focusing on you, they will stop and just peacefully do nothing (until Hunted! Triggers again …).


Reality Tides: it not only turn enemies into cute little mouses, it gives a significant amount of damage reduction to them.

Spacetime Bebop: you can bind e.g. Temporal Ignition into Emit Photon or Tears of the Forsaken into Inertia Beam. So it can turn your “I have to cast two spells to trigger this combo” into “just cast this one spell and the second one will be automatic”.

Imbue Anomaly: yes, maxing this talent is really good. Also while you imbuing the spell, you can tune up your paradox to 3000 and cast Coccoon to have the potentially highest spellpower. With very high spellpower, you can reach very high chance for the talent_on_spell.


As for Path choices, it is really up to the player.

I like to go with Path of Temporis, Path of the Stormrider and Path of the Seer.
Sometimes I add Path of Pain too to have even crazier damage and AoE pin enemies and Live Between the Ticks of a Second to have some free time when I need it.

Path of Temporis together with Path of the Stormrider results in crazy damage and if you like Kurgarru, the little golem: it can mimic your Paths and effects.

So the golem can also have Quantum Overcharge, Everywhere at Once, Lightning Fury, so on …
And when you move, it also moves and when you cast Inertia Beam, it will teleport next to the target (Quantum Overcharge).


About Ygg-Chal the Worldeater:

I do not like to give very specific and clear advices because it is a puzzle.

1. You need almost all your damage reductor talents/layers
2. You need something to manage your life, because you will continuously take huge damage each time you act
3. It is better to deactivate its sustains immediately and try to clear its temporary effects too
4. You have to prevent it to gain life… maybe you have something that can do that for you? Maybe you found something formerly that is connected to Vorloths?
5. To be effective, you have to deal a % based damage to its life too and not only flat values
6. Things that gives you extra time can be very helpful because you can do point 3. before it can even act

Zizzo
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2520
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:13 pm
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Re: [1.7.4.] Quantum Slider class

#44 Post by Zizzo »

Man, bad time to be AFK. We Apologize for the Delay;™ replacing a laptop keyboard is a bit time-consuming.
PseudoLoneWolf wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2024 2:54 am The problem seems to be that some other mods rely on the Into The Darkness quest triggers, but I'll let Zizzo expand on that, I'm not a modder.
Yes, that was my Sandworm Cavern SONAR addon.
PseudoLoneWolf wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2024 2:54 am Secondarily, without following the start of the main quest chain this mod wouldn't be very friendly to players who aren't already familiar with the game and zone order, though I suppose it wasn't intended for them in the first place. Still, for clarity and compatibility's sake, I personally feel it would be a good idea to chain into the starter main quests. Even if it does, as you say, maybe break the immersion a little bit.
Yes, that's more or less what I was trying to say; We Apologize for the Confusion.™ As for immersion, my idea for that in Sandworm Cavern SONAR was to add a quick chat with Zemekkys after killing the Weaver queen (specifically, the "zemekkys-welcome" chat stage near the end of the file), to the effect of "here are some starting places that should get you started in the general direction of the Portal."
Tradewind_Rider wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2024 7:45 am If i would add the "normal" "Of Trolls and Damp Caves" quest for Vorloths, then it could be helpful for new players to have a clue where to go and what to do first.
That might be slightly overkill, actually; I remember being around level 6-7 by the time I finished the chronomancy quests. I'd still recommend "Into the darkness" as the next quest in the chain. I think Mr Frog' Faetouched Collection does something similar, so there's precedent.
"Blessed are the yeeks, for they shall inherit Arda..."

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