[1.7.0] Metaclass - Mage Knight

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Re: [1.7.0] Metaclass - Mage Knight

#136 Post by Phoenix1 »

Both issues fixed and new patch uploaded. Thanks!

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Re: [1.7.0] Metaclass - Mage Knight

#137 Post by Ghostdog »

First of all Phoenix1, thank you for this great mod.

Each of the subclass feels different and your aim in avoiding 1 point buys is successful. Messing with time is one such example.

While playing, I noticed some of things that did not work or did not work properly.

Storm Knight's Zelphyr Dance; After attacking, how does this ability reposition? The impression is that after you attack you can select another area to move to, but it did not happen.

As a mana knight, when I select Tactical Strikes, the different abilities do not appear. It does work properly with other subclasses.

Psychic Wave, Burst and Blast states special effects at level 3, but actually have such effects at level 1. I suppose the descriptions are not up to date?


Each subclass has its own strengths and weaknesses. I suppose the advanced trees either support (or weaken) the flaws or emphasize the strengths. What advanced tree do you recommend for each subclass?

My fear that Battle Dancer did not activate, was unfounded. It worked quite well. Doing good damage without using mana.
Weapon Supremacy is an odd talent tree, switching weapons, but it also worked well. Debuffs, multitarget, single target abilities.
Arcana is great for those that lacks healing, shielding and teleport. The beneficial remover is one not seen with the other subclass (with the exception of Mana Wave, Burst and Blast).
Wizard Knight is great for offensive classes, get more bang for their buck.

Tactical Strikes - It does seems like a great advanced tree. Giving utility skills for those that do not have much of it. Or giving much needed healing and or shielding. However it is a heavy investment. Tactical Focus makes them more powerful, but is not linked to any stat. So the abilities will not get powerful. And are Tactical Specialization (5 turn cooldown for admittably cool effects) and Tactical Mastery worth it?

Dancing Weapon - On paper it does not seem to be an impressive tree. Attack per turn for an enemy 2 or 3 tiles away. Mostly attack while you move. Sometimes attack when you use non-attack abilities. You cannot abuse it with Storm Knight abilities as while Storm Knight moves more per turn, Dancing Weapon attack only once per turn.

What are your thoughts? Please let me know.
Last edited by Ghostdog on Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: [1.7.0] Metaclass - Mage Knight

#138 Post by Phoenix1 »


Yep missed the level 3 notes for some mind knight talents. Those are fixed. Not entirely sure why the randomization for mana knight tactical strikes stopped working, but whatever I changed it and now it's fixed.

Zephyr Dance appears to be working for me. It does only move you once; you don't move, attack everyone, and then move again. You start from wherever you're starting at, attack everyone (descriptively, you're running around attacking them all), and then end that "movement" in whatever position you targeted when you activated the talent (and of course you don't move at all when it's triggered by Eldritch Combat). Is it working differently for you?

Far as the locked trees, ideally they should all be about equally useful for everyone, give or take. But in terms of rough leanings...

I would say Wizard Knight is my go-to for phoenix knights and mana knights, although I think there's a pretty interesting sea knight build in there as well (since they can spam their beams more easily and wildstorm can be splashing around quite a bit of support effects from Archmage Knight, and the chaining beam + wildstorm triggers means they can keep erosion racking up on groups more easily). phoenix knight it's fairly obvious; Wizard Knight emphasizes energy damage and they have the strongest energy type, plus their special weapon dovetails very well with Archmage Knight. Mana knight it's probably more thematic than tactical, but archmage knight gives wildstorm blasts a chance of the energy specials, so a mana knight can be randomly stripping away a bunch of stuff in the background that way. That all said, I tend to favor Wizard Knight a bit over the other two in general; faster cooldowns, being able to trigger talents even when you're like popping a regen infusion, and damage penetration are all very convenient to have, and shoring up direct magic is helpful when you encounter overpowered melee threats or enemies with sky-high Defense.

Dancing Weapon is probably my go-to for mind and storm knights. Mind knights having some form of telekinetic wielding is something I've tried to do many ways over the course of this project, of course, but more importantly it's the only one of the locked class trees that offers defense, which both of them could definitely stand some shoring up on (and the defensive functions dovetail well with the ones storm knights get). There is some anti-synergy there though; the dancing weapon doesn't really dovetail well with mind knight stealth or storm knight Whirlwind Dervish, and since they both have high mobility they're less likely to benefit from it making attacks just while they're walking around. I'd kinda like to fix that but have yet to figure out a way to do it that I'm satisfied with. It also does dovetail well with the improved waiting abilities earth and phoenix knights get, and with sea knights being able to recover Flow on movement, so my go-tos may be kinda off here.

Battle Dancer I'd generally favor for earth knights and sea knights, since it gives offense that is based on physical fighting power rather than energy damage, which is lackluster for both of them. Sea knights also have pretty limited debuff capability, which Battle Dancer shores up a bit. Earth knights are better at that, but even so, the various forms of Impeded combo well with the Ground Down debuff.

For the generics I'm less certain on synergies. Tactical Strikes and Arcana are both very broad-based; pretty much everyone can get something useful out of them. Even mana knights who I'd say get the least out of Arcana (since they can already heal, shield, teleport, and dispel) can benefit from the status cleansing of Repair Damage and the status shielding of Raise Barrier, since they don't have any native, on-demand status mitigation. I think Weapon Supremacy is probably especially useful to earth knights, because being able to swap between a shield and a two-handed weapon easily can be a big help when they need more damage, and Aggressive Swap is probably the strongest attack talent in the metaclass pound-for-pound. If I were to just divide them up, I'd probably say earth and mana for Weapon Supremacy, phoenix and storm for Tactical Strikes, mind and sea for Arcana, but it'd be at least somewhat arbitrary (though earth and mana having synergies with Weapon Supremacy seems more solid to me than the rest).

I would generally say Tactical Specialization and Tactical Mastery are useful, but they do add even more required thought to maximizing your use of the tree. With Tactical Specialization, you have to recognize when you have it (I suggest using the talent menu to drag it to your hotbar so you can see when it's off cooldown) and decide which tactical strike its benefit will be more useful for in your current situation, and then either use that one or not use any other strikes until you're ready for that one. Likewise for Tactical Mastery, to get the most out of it you need to consider any time an enemy is near death which strike to use to finish them off - and that calculation gets more complex if Tactical Specialization is off cooldown. Mage knights tend to be pretty simple to play and bump-friendly in general, but Tactical Strikes changes that quite a lot.

Dancing Weapon's edge is it's the only one of the locked class trees that gives you more defense. A small miss chance for both attacks and detrimental effects, counter-attacks to punish foes, and it can still attack (and potentially even trigger Eldritch Combat!) when you pass a turn so Eldritch Vigor's wait option becomes that much more practical.

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Re: [1.7.0] Metaclass - Mage Knight

#139 Post by Rukaneo »

Ooof got the new update and this happened when i entered the sandworm cave

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... image0.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... image0.jpg

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Re: [1.7.0] Metaclass - Mage Knight

#140 Post by Phoenix1 »

Hrm, those lines don't seem to match in my code, and I recall seeing errors like that at one point before I fixed them, so I'm guessing either I hadn't uploaded that change yet or you had a slightly earlier version. To be safe (and since I fixed some number and rounding mistakes in one of the scaling functions and added a "force target to attack you" bit to Rapid Strike since last upload anyway) I uploaded a new patch. Pretty sure that bug won't exist in this one.

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