Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.8
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Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.8
Maybe its because im running the game on linux? But that shouldnt be an issue...
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.8
I'd be quite surprised if that was causing any problems. You're not the only one it's affected.
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.8
Great design!
Just messing around with one now. Insane Roguelike, as usual, so no doubt I'll die pretty quickly. In any case, I'll let you know how I get on.
Anyway, I found a GW2 talent - Heartseeker. Nice! The following talent, Whirlwind also looks suspiciously familiar. And I'm not talking about the official ToME version of it.
Of course, stealth still needs fixing... gah!
Update:
The class has a really pleasing rhythm about it, during the lower levels. It's always important to test a class thoroughly at this stage and make sure the "feel" of the class is right from the very earliest stages. I like your Assassin because it encourages an easygoing, comfortable attack pattern of:
At this stage, it seems a shame to tie the class down to the original Rogue design, because there are still a few weak systems inherent in the engine that spoil the fun of this sort of class. They are:
Just messing around with one now. Insane Roguelike, as usual, so no doubt I'll die pretty quickly. In any case, I'll let you know how I get on.
Anyway, I found a GW2 talent - Heartseeker. Nice! The following talent, Whirlwind also looks suspiciously familiar. And I'm not talking about the official ToME version of it.
Of course, stealth still needs fixing... gah!
Update:
The class has a really pleasing rhythm about it, during the lower levels. It's always important to test a class thoroughly at this stage and make sure the "feel" of the class is right from the very earliest stages. I like your Assassin because it encourages an easygoing, comfortable attack pattern of:
- Optional: Ready to engage the enemy, planting traps or wearing it down with poisoned throwing knives.
- Chop it up a bit in melee, using Dual Strike's stun to limit the damage you take.
- Disengage, and continue to wear it down at range with throwing knives. If you have to, finish it off with a trap!
At this stage, it seems a shame to tie the class down to the original Rogue design, because there are still a few weak systems inherent in the engine that spoil the fun of this sort of class. They are:
- Stealth, which has really weird rules for detection. Unaware enemies will still home in on your location.
- Light armour, which is not particularly advantaged in any way. Thanks for trying!
- Fatigue, which does nothing.
- Defense, which isn't a particularly great system either.
- Stamina, which is a boring resource with no enjoyable options for management. You have it, then you run out of it, and then it's bloody miserable 'cause you can do nothing.
Last edited by Nagyhal on Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.8
I tried fixing Stealth to be less rubbish and gave up in frustration. I think getting it working better would be it's own project entirely, so instead there's Shadow Dance to ignore the mechanics and have a few turns of guaranteed murder. When I actually have some time to code more I'll give Rogue some more polish, but the codebase for this addon is a bit of a mess compared to the cleaner approach I took with Bastion so I'll need to set a few days aside.
And yep, Whirlwind is Death Blossom without the bleed.
And yep, Whirlwind is Death Blossom without the bleed.
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.8
Fixing stealth is definitely a massive project!
grayswandir had some interesting ideas, and began work on a stealth rework addon - of course, this was before he mysteriously disappeared from the community... You can get a feel for the ideas that were flowing around here with this thread.
I'm going to try and level Stealth anyway because I'm playing one of astralInferno's stealthy Feling catfolk! Thanks for the cool class and I'll let you know how I get on :33
grayswandir had some interesting ideas, and began work on a stealth rework addon - of course, this was before he mysteriously disappeared from the community... You can get a feel for the ideas that were flowing around here with this thread.
I'm going to try and level Stealth anyway because I'm playing one of astralInferno's stealthy Feling catfolk! Thanks for the cool class and I'll let you know how I get on :33
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.8
my 2 cents for stealth...
1, don't turn it off, if talent is either instant, or used without witnesses.
if you have to, using a talent might cause stealth power penalty which quickly decays, like Reaver's frenzy
2, make it a passive instead of a sustain. stupid button, i am setting it on auto use anyway.
1, don't turn it off, if talent is either instant, or used without witnesses.
if you have to, using a talent might cause stealth power penalty which quickly decays, like Reaver's frenzy
2, make it a passive instead of a sustain. stupid button, i am setting it on auto use anyway.
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.8
Yeah, what I tried doing was making Stealth a passive. Making unstealthy actions would place a 'revealed' debuff on you for a few turns that would disable stealth bonuses until you were X tiles from an enemy. Was a bit buggy so I ended up removing the changes. Might revisit when I have time though.
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.8
Quick v1.9 update - made Twist the Knife no_npc_use, and Dirty Fighting's secondary debuff is cross_tier.
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.8
For anyone using this mod - as of next patch this will be discontinued. This is due to the changes listed over here:
http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=46390
http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=46390
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.8
Lethality doesn't appear to be working correctly with offhand weapon damage. I added the lines
if self:knowTalent(Talents.T_LETHALITY) then
offmult = math.max(offmult,self:callTalent(Talents.T_LETHALITY,"getoffmult"))
end
to combat lua under offhandmult. Worked for me. If anyone else needs it fixed just have to modify the combat lua there.
if self:knowTalent(Talents.T_LETHALITY) then
offmult = math.max(offmult,self:callTalent(Talents.T_LETHALITY,"getoffmult"))
end
to combat lua under offhandmult. Worked for me. If anyone else needs it fixed just have to modify the combat lua there.
Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.8
I've been looking into stealth recently and I have a few ideas about how to improve it. I was thinking about doing an add-on to try the ideas, but kind of gave up on the idea due to this rework. However, if it still seems like it might be useful, I might carry on from where greyswandir left off.
The gist of my basic ideas:
Edit: I just had another idea which is considerably more disruptive to the stealth tree: Remove both Hide in Plain Sight and Unseen Actions. Replace them with a passive (called SNAFU for now) that works very similarly to Tumble. Instead of breaking stealth every time you do a non-movement (which is kind of unintuitive anyway), just add a stealth check for it like normal. If you ever break stealth, SNAFU kicks in and allows you to tumble to some unoccupied location if there is one within range. At level 3 it resets stealth. At level 5 it automatically activates stealth (with normal stealth rules).
This would free up an extra space in the stealth tree. You could then move Sticky Smoke from the traps tree there (it really doesn't belong in traps).
Anyway, before I think too much about this, I should try this addon first
The gist of my basic ideas:
- Do what greyswandir suggests for the enemies homing in on you
- Remove checkOldHit code for stealth and replace it with something that can be intuitively understood. All checks will be scaled on distance from the observer. Ideally use the new hit/saving throw code, but getting the balance right might be tricky.
- Move check for being noticed to the end of the player's action. Completely remove "notices you at the last moment". This allows opponents to get a bearing on you, but not act until the next turn. If they are fast enough, they can attack you. If not, maybe you have moved on...
- Whether the opponent has seen you or not, you never break stealth on your actions unless you fail unseen actions
- Add a graphical indicator (highlighting the opponent) on each opponent that has spotted you the last turn. This allows you to try to distance yourself from opponents with high stealth detection easily.
- Optionally thinking of having a saving throw against cunning for you noticing that the opponent has noticed you. i.e., it allows opponents with very high cunning to notice you, but not betray that they have noticed you. This might complicate the mechanics too much, though.
- If an opponent has spotted you in the previous action and they manage to hit you (with anything), then your stealth breaks.
- If an opponent has not spotted you but manages to hit you with a melee attack (not spell, and not ranged attack), then your stealth breaks. Of course if you have decent defence then getting hit while stealthed is unlucky, but this counteracts endless stealth without having to have bizarre mechanics in the stealth check.
- Weaken Unseen Actions significantly. To be honest, I'm thinking scaling from 0.4-1.0. I don't see why Unseen Actions should ever be less likely to expose you than your normal stealth check (fine if it's for levels greater than 5). Again, this should be scaled by distance from the observer. Also, ESP should *not* be counted here (since Unseen Actions will break stealth). ESP will automatically allow an opponent to spot you anyway and they can simply break your stealth by attacking you.

Edit: I just had another idea which is considerably more disruptive to the stealth tree: Remove both Hide in Plain Sight and Unseen Actions. Replace them with a passive (called SNAFU for now) that works very similarly to Tumble. Instead of breaking stealth every time you do a non-movement (which is kind of unintuitive anyway), just add a stealth check for it like normal. If you ever break stealth, SNAFU kicks in and allows you to tumble to some unoccupied location if there is one within range. At level 3 it resets stealth. At level 5 it automatically activates stealth (with normal stealth rules).
This would free up an extra space in the stealth tree. You could then move Sticky Smoke from the traps tree there (it really doesn't belong in traps).
Anyway, before I think too much about this, I should try this addon first

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- Archmage
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Re: Assassin - Complete Rogue Rework v1.8
Found an error:
Lua Error: ...addons/assassin/superload/mod/class/interface/Combat.lua:34: attempt to call method 'getDex' (a nil value)
At [C]:-1 getDex
At ...addons/assassin/superload/mod/class/interface/Combat.lua:34 combatDefenseBase
At /mod/class/interface/Combat.lua:1219
At /mod/addons/PlenumTooltip/superload/mod/class/Actor.lua:77 colorStats
At /mod/addons/PlenumTooltip/superload/mod/class/Actor.lua:303 tooltip
At /mod/class/uiset/Minimalist.lua:2035 on_mouse
At /engine/LogDisplay.lua:190 mouseEvent
At /mod/class/uiset/Minimalist.lua:1697 fct
At /engine/Mouse.lua:78
Lua Error: ...addons/assassin/superload/mod/class/interface/Combat.lua:34: attempt to call method 'getDex' (a nil value)
At [C]:-1 getDex
At ...addons/assassin/superload/mod/class/interface/Combat.lua:34 combatDefenseBase
At /mod/class/interface/Combat.lua:1219
At /mod/addons/PlenumTooltip/superload/mod/class/Actor.lua:77 colorStats
At /mod/addons/PlenumTooltip/superload/mod/class/Actor.lua:303 tooltip
At /mod/class/uiset/Minimalist.lua:2035 on_mouse
At /engine/LogDisplay.lua:190 mouseEvent
At /mod/class/uiset/Minimalist.lua:1697 fct
At /engine/Mouse.lua:78