"Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

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lunitan
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Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#421 Post by lunitan »

Wow a lot of stuff I didn't know that answers all my gripes (that I can think of right now). The summoners bond thing could be more clear, I had zero idea this existed. The extra cat point after dredfell thing + wyrm bile takes care of my cat point concerns as well (I totally forgot about the bile). I'm loving this new discipline system as well I think it works great and you didn't need a coding nightmare. I think you should keep the stat point idea on the back burner, once things get more stable and reach a better balance point you may want to start pushing darkgods boundaries, I'm also only proposing 1 stat point per level and a higher max so that it evens out. Onto skill talk!

Skills:
- Swallow Fire
Personally, I DO love "counter-attack" talents. "Overshadow" is my single favorite talent in ALL of "OoTS" (besides a certain hidden talent tree that is REALLY hard to unlock and "use"). I could see something like this being a thing-- But let's read on to the other talents...
Yea I like the counter attack idea as well. It rewards the tanky give and take life leech play that I really want ritch to have the option of having.
- Fiery Constitution
Pfffft!! Nice try! No way I could give Ritch such an... "Easy" talent like that! I mean-- Who in their right mind WOULDN'T max that?? I mean... It would even reduce the duration of damaging things like Poison without you even needing to lift a finger! No way. Needs more shortfalls-- Too good!

... If I had to suggest a tweak, I would make the detrimental effect reduction scale with Constitution-- This way, the talent's own bonuses could meet the player halfway (since we're asking them to invest in something REALLY bizarre)
Fiery constitution was essentially a way to create that tankiness and anti CC attrition stuff you talked about in the warrior avatars. This skill was meant to counteract the downside of you not having any ranged attack at all, which I think is the big thing you lose. It's not so bad to have something you max out. 10 constitution is only 3 levels worth of stats and 35% reduced duration isn't too bad. Obviously it is very powerful but I added in the reduced defense and stealth power to try and compensate.

That said I do agree that scaling with Con is better. So say 30% at 60 con? or .5% detrimental effect reduction per con? Though you may have to drop it down to .33% effect reduction per con if you think you can scale the percent too high. This also gives blighted ritches even more of a reason to invest in con.
- Blood Boil
Here's what I would do:
"For [3~5] attacks, your Combat Speed is increased by [200~400]%-- However, each attack will consume [10? Hmmm...]% of your current life. After performing your last attack, you will automatically trigger Swallow Fire if it is being sustained."
Initially my second idea for blood boil was to give 100% global speed so it can be used both as a gap closer and a melee attack booster (that pairs with sight of red) but I thought that was too powerful, so I turned it into a pseudo flurry instead. I love the life lost thing, it fits so well, now that it has a cost though I think it'd be better to change it back.

Here's my counter blood boil:
For 2/2/3/3/4 turns your global speed is increased by 100/125/150/175/200% However each turn consumes 10%? of your current life (important to note that c current is a lot better than max, it promotes you risking your life because you'll pay less at less hp) each turn that passes. At the end of the duration your remaining blood explodes violently triggering a swallow fire explosion (I never thought of swallow fire as a sustain, though I don't have a problem with it being one. Is that just a coding thing or are you implying you can turn swallow fire on and off so that you can potentially use spit fire while losing most of the trees benefits by not being able to use explosions?)
- Fireblood Swipes
Perfect-- Except for one thing: I wouldn't have it damage yourself!
Yea i like this one the best, it has a kind of elegantness about it that provides good incentives to get crit. The self damage was added at the last second because I thought this tree might be a little too op. But I also don't like it.

It's awesome that you're going to implement my idea I really look forward to blowing stuff up and then dying because I got too cocky and lost too much life. We're really thinking on the same wavelength now. If no one else has any ideas ill try to play around with the other two classes after I beat ritch (or run into too much trouble to handle.) I'm currently play testing it now and have a few thoughts written down that I'll add to and give you by the end of my play session.


P.S. When you say bubble test runs does that mean like normal or using cheats?

rexorcorum
Graphical God
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Location: There and Back again

Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#422 Post by rexorcorum »

Another one - trying to equip a trimmed greatsword:
http://owely.com/0163qpr
(still alive and kicking...)

Edit: Another one - by fighting with the said greatsword (and it deteriorating):
http://owely.com/8NDAcr
~ [ RexOrcorum, a.k.a "rexo": Official Visual Magus, Addon Beautifier, Achiever, Knight of the 561 Trees, Dark Interfacer ] ~
darkgod wrote:~ [ DarkGod whips rexorcorum with Suslik (& many others as well) ] ~

nekarcos
Uruivellas
Posts: 635
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:50 pm

Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#423 Post by nekarcos »

@rexorcorum
nekarcos wrote:Update: I found 3 problems already-- A character sheet issue and--
... Siiigh... And I thought I finally dealt with it...
You can get around that bug by saving and reloading-- But I need to figure out precisely WHAT causes that issue...

Addition: BAH!!! I know EXACTLY what's causing this. I forgot to change something I found
... Man... Now I remember why I never do BIG releases like this...

Addition 2: ... Grrrr...


NOTICE: Okay, I'm VERY aware of an issue that occurs when the Ritch attempts to wear a Greatsword-- A fix is coming soon-- But, for the time being... Ahhh... Errrmm... Avoid making Greatswords... SORRY!!
Update: No longer an issue! ... I think.


@lunitan
RE: Swallow Fire
*nods*

RE: Fiery Constitution
You see, this is the part where I would say "this will require some investigation/observation"-- But then everyone thinks I'm just saying that to brush them off...

RE: Blood Boil
I have NEVER been a fan of haphazardly giving "Global Speed" to the player because it's waaaay too useful. That is to say, there is NEVER a time that Global Speed is a bad thing-- Which INSTANTLY makes it a useless tool for creating inventive gameplay and only useful as a "reward" in gameplay.
To clarify that thought-- If I made an effect that gives a player 800% Combat Speed, but drops them to 10% Movement Speed (NEVER do this. NEVER NEVER NEVER reduce Movement Speed lower than 50%, MY GOD), that would most certainly encourage them to attack and not move, right? However, what would happen if you gave that player 800% Global Speed instead...? Good luck convincing them to use it for attacking!

Also, beware of effect durations when you're playing around with Movement/Global speed effects! Remember that "Speed bonuses" already scale multiplicatively with duration-- So if you increase the duration simultaneously, it will become an "exponential" increase in power (+300% Global Speed for 4 turns is 12 free actions while +100% Global Speed for 2 turns is only 2 free actions-- QUITE a difference).

As for sustains... Well, it's generally "safer" to have a "circuit breaker" logic when dealing with "trigger" types of effects-- Or else you'll end up like Magic: The Gathering and its 101 ways to create infinitely-cycling sequences of triggers (which don't always necessarily lead to a player winning/losing either).


RE: Fireblood Swipes
*nod nod*


RE: Implementation?!
-- Whoa whoa whoa! Don't get ahead of yourself now...!
I don't know if-or-when I would get around to doing something like this, so you really shouldn't hold your breath...

However, rest assured-- It's bubbling and frothing in my mind... It will PROBABLY happen... Maybe... I just don't know how or when.


RE: Bubble Runs
... I spent like 20 minutes writing a huge paragraph here before deciding to describe this in a less... "saturated" post?

Bear with me-- I'll explain it soon enough.
Last edited by nekarcos on Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Creator of the (rather large) "Odyssey of The Summoner" add-on pack

jenx
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2263
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:16 pm

Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#424 Post by jenx »

I"ve gotten nice and far on previous release so I"m going to keep at it and then update afterwards.

Well, that didn't last long. died at dreadfell level 3...time to try the new version.
MADNESS rocks

lunitan
Yeek
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#425 Post by lunitan »

RE: Fiery Constitution
You see, this is the part where I would say "this will require some investigation/observation"-- But then everyone thinks I'm just saying that to brush them off...
Take all the time you need to investigate if this is too op/ you want to change something.
RE: Blood Boil
I have NEVER been a fan of haphazardly giving "Global Speed" to the player because it's waaaay too useful. That is to say, there is NEVER a time that Global Speed is a bad thing-- Which INSTANTLY makes it a useless tool for creating inventive gameplay and only useful as a "reward" in gameplay.
To clarify that thought-- If I made an effect that gives a player 800% Combat Speed, but drops them to 10% Movement Speed (NEVER do this. NEVER NEVER NEVER reduce Movement Speed lower than 50%, MY GOD), that would most certainly encourage them to attack and not move, right? However, what would happen if you gave that player 800% Global Speed instead...? Good luck convincing them to use it for attacking!

Also, beware of effect durations when you're playing around with Movement/Global speed effects! Remember that "Speed bonuses" already scale multiplicatively with duration-- So if you increase the duration simultaneously, it will become an "exponential" increase in power (+300% Global Speed for 4 turns is 12 free actions while +100% Global Speed for 2 turns is only 2 free actions-- QUITE a difference).

As for sustains... Well, it's generally "safer" to have a "circuit breaker" logic when dealing with "trigger" types of effects-- Or else you'll end up like Magic: The Gathering and its 101 ways to create infinitely-cycling sequences of triggers (which don't always necessarily lead to a player winning/losing either).
I thought global speed would once again be too much, the reason I wanted global speed in the first place was to close gaps but if wing-pod is getting unlocked again then it's not needed. I like the psuedo flurry that costs blood better. Also blood boil or blood fury? Which do you think sounds better? I actually prefer blood fury. Also 10% might be too much and could probably use testing.

RE: Implementation?!
-- Whoa whoa whoa! Don't get ahead of yourself now...!
I don't know if-or-when I would get around to doing something like this, so you really shouldn't hold your breath...

However, rest assured-- It's bubbling and frothing in my mind... It will PROBABLY happen... Maybe... I just don't know how or when.
I thought that sentence was worded too strongly but then again you came across very strongly when you said you LOVED the idea and would ABSOLUTELY implement this right away-- But I'm the type of Father who doesn't play favorites.

That said I always knew it wasn't a sure thing and I won't be too disappointed if it doesn't happen. Besides it was always a far off thing because you need to create (perhaps with my help) two other blight trees. And I need to beat ritch normally before I start diving into blight stuff, then I need to play the other two classes aswell to give my feedback on a possible new blight tree.

Bubble runs: Kay.

jenx
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2263
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:16 pm

Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#426 Post by jenx »

I still think the hostile world map adventurers from the start is really annoying and pointless. I have lost lots of characters straight away by being chased and cornered by these. Just a waste of time.

ARGGGHHH - just happened twice in a row. PLEASE remove this. It is ridiculous.
MADNESS rocks

jenx
Sher'Tul Godslayer
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Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#427 Post by jenx »

if I press C to see character sheet, and then click Defence tab, I get a lua error now. Didn't before. Only change I can think of is that I am now corrupted somewhat but so I got cleansed but still can't see Defence tab :-(
MADNESS rocks

jenx
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2263
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:16 pm

Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#428 Post by jenx »

please give drakelings water breathing. they die in every situation of water otherwise :-(
MADNESS rocks

jenx
Sher'Tul Godslayer
Posts: 2263
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Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#429 Post by jenx »

Level 26 and still not able to teach drakelings a single talent... the reason, not enough stats ....LOL

It really takes the fun out of the game when you invest 5/5 in role model and get to level 26 and can't teach a single talent to a single drakeling....

and worse, I have 5/5/5/5 in Dragon Brood AND an extra talent point AND they are levels 26, 26 and 23 and guess how many talents for attacking they have each?? ZERO !!!

lol
Last edited by jenx on Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
MADNESS rocks

nsrr
Sher'Tul
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Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#430 Post by nsrr »

Whichever Natural Combat talent you select first appears to behave as though you have 100 Wild Power regardless of how much you actually have. That is to say, the active effect automatically jumps up to its maximum power as soon as you unlock it. I tested Elusiveness and Nature Hardened to verify that the value being granted matched the description. I might have missed something in the update post, but I double-checked and couldn't find this mentioned anywhere as benefit of being Disciplined.

EDIT:
Oh, never mind. I see now in the talent description text that this is a bonus for your Fist Discipline. Sweet :D

jenx
Sher'Tul Godslayer
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Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#431 Post by jenx »

hmmm, so my drakelings finally have talents. one has backdrafty, level 6 and it's supposed to 375 dmg.

He just hit a bear for 2778 damage !!!!!!! Something in the code must be wrong. not that I"m complaining ...
MADNESS rocks

Gottschkopf
Wayist
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:54 am

First!

#432 Post by Gottschkopf »

Am I seeing this right? I'm the first legimitate Hydra hitting 50 on normal maj'eyal? Huh.
Early- to midgame is pretty hard, but when you make it through, the lategame is rather easy because you just don't die with dragonic blood.
I'm in the slimy tunnels atm, lets see if i can beat teh game...

Note: I started the weekend, so I'm not using the update from yesterday (yet)

nekarcos
Uruivellas
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Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#433 Post by nekarcos »

@lunitan
RE: Misleading enthusiasm?
Sorry... I didn't mean to get your hopes up or anything for a new tree-- I just don't intend to add too much new or unanticipated content. That, and I want to offer new gameplay to every Avatar if I'm going to add something-- Not just one (hence "I don't play favorites"). I'm actually already way off schedule because of all the balancing/tweaking I had to do with classes!

But no-- Really! A new blighted talent tree is a GREAT idea, and I definitely wish I had the time to put it in somewhere. I'll admit having only 1 talent tree to reward all your trouble is a bit dull, so I've already figured out how and when you could get it.

RE: Blood Boil
I'm usually not final with names until the talent is said and done, so I'd have to get back to you on that.
Particularly, "Killing Blade" was something I spent A LOT of time switching between. "Does Killing Blade sound cooler as the crafting talent, or the talent tree? Maybe I should make Cutting Edge the crafting talent...? Hmmm... Hmmm..." Etc... Etc...

RE: Wing Pod
lunitan wrote:if wing-pod is getting unlocked again then it's not needed
... It's REALLY starting to freak me out how you keep knowing these things before I even reveal them...

RE: Blighted Stuff
Yeah... I'm looking to hear some solid feedback about how people feel about "Blighted" Avatars
Now that the cat's out of the bag for "Blighted" stuff, don't be afraid to speak your mind-- I don't consider it a spoiler anymore!

RE: Bubble Runs
In due time-- To summarize, it's a test playthrough with special rules where I don't modify anything at all-- Which is why I need to sit back a bit and make sure there's no bug/error reports with the new update (and there definitely WILL be because of how GIGANTIC it is, ugh...)
But yeah, to expand a bit: It behaves like a roguelike playthrough WITHOUT necessarily having the "finality" of a roguelike run. That is to say, one of the rules is that I never "revive and rematch", if you know what I mean by that.



@jenx
RE: Patrols
I definitely agree (and HAVE agreed for a VERY long time) that getting ganked by patrols at the start of the game is a sort of "lame" thing... But it's something in the game that I didn't make myself and an unfortunate consequence of being hated by "Allied Kingdom" for that very brief moment at the start of the game (that awkward time where your character doesn't realize they can talk with their mind... That's something that I DEFINITELY want to keep in and will be VERY relevant later when I'm done "forming" the plot, HINT HINT...)

The real issue is that I'm VERY opposed to add-ons that remove content-- They should "add ONTO" the game, not "add OUT OF".

The only compromise I could think of is plopping you directly onto Derth as soon as you leave the place. However, it wouldn't be clear to new players that your REAL destination is the grove around the corner, so... This all really IS a matter of debate, to be honest...

RE: Character Sheet bug
I know...

RE: Drakeling Water-Breathing
There are 3 reliable ways to "protect" your Drakelings from drowning-- 1 of which is late-game and somewhat obscure (I think you can take a guess where/when this happens), and the other 2 require you to have 3 Drakelings by the time you enter Lake Nur-- Which starts a "reflection". If none of the above works, finding "of Corpselight" lanterns might be the only other way to protect them...

In the future though, I want to create a way to "restart" the Lake Nur reflection, because it's semi-crucial if you intend to play the game with Drakelings and it SHOULD NOT be a "missable", to be honest...

RE: Teaching Drakelings
I've already given them some rather-enormous growth-wise buffs-- As well as getting 20% of your stats when they're inspired...
Sorry, but I gotta leave the rest up to you! Take care of those children and they'll take care of you (hopefully, if I designed this well...)

(Addendum: "Fire Drake" is actually one of the primary reasons I always recommended playing on Exploration. It's not implemented yet, but I'm just going to be completely blunt and forward about this, I'm tired of keeping it a secret.)
HUGE-Fire-Drake-Related-Spoiler-Here: When a Drakeling reaches "full maturity", you will be able to take control of them after your main character dies, proceeding with the game using your Drakeling as the main character instead. You will die, but your "Legacy" will live on.... In other words, if you can figure out Fire Drake's hidden prodigy, "Drakelings" are basically extra lives, and can offer you a "Lichform-like" mechanic, as long as you protect them for long enough to grow up-- Which is MAINLY why they're SO DIFFICULT to keep alive.
*Cough Cough*

RE: Backdraft
Sheesh... What have you been feeding that kid??

Uhhh-- Show me that Drakeling's stats and try to replicate that situation. I did some peeking and I don't see anything wrong with Backdraft, so I'll need some investigation to fix it... For now, enjoy the overly buff Drakeling!



@nsrr
I honestly expect EVERYONE to pick "Rabbit's Foot" as the "First Discipline" because this instantly turns it into a "100% Free" 0~3 Physical Removal (which is PRETTY good, if you ask me). This is my sort of "compromise" to everyone for a way to "reliably" (HAH!) remove stuns and such.




@Gottschkopf
I always knew it could, to be honest... It was just a matter of people gaining familiarity with the classes!
If there's one thing you can trust a roguelike/roguelite community to figure out, it's developing a "winning" strategy for even the most "underpowered" characters.

That's what "Binding of Isaac" has taught me... That's what "Darkest Dungeon" has taught me... And that's especially what "Wes" players in "Don't Starve" have taught me...



*** What I gathered:
- Patrols are still "a thing". It honestly IS an unnecessary, unintentional part of "OoTS"... But how to "gracefully" deal with such a thing...?
- Backdraft is overly buff when used by Drakelings...?? Huuuuh?!?!
Creator of the (rather large) "Odyssey of The Summoner" add-on pack

Gottschkopf
Wayist
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:54 am

Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#434 Post by Gottschkopf »

nekarcos wrote: @Gottschkopf
I always knew it could, to be honest... It was just a matter of people gaining familiarity with the classes!
If there's one thing you can trust a roguelike/roguelite community to figure out, it's developing a "winning" strategy for even the most "underpowered" characters.

That's what "Binding of Isaac" has taught me... That's what "Darkest Dungeon" has taught me... And that's especially what "Wes" players in "Don't Starve" have taught me...
That's what I learned from Binding of Isaac. Try different stuff long enough and you can even beat it as the Lost. That's also what I learned from darkest Dungeon, where you just have to WHAT!? PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY PLAY WES SUCCESSFULLY???

nekarcos
Uruivellas
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:50 pm

Re: "Odyssey of The Summoner" is OUT!! Find it here...

#435 Post by nekarcos »

"Odyssey of The Summoner" has been updated!! (Version 0.4.1)

*** Version: 0.4.1 ~ "Now with more customizability and less WHOOPS!"

[GENERAL]
(BUGS)
- I BELIEVE I've figured out the Character Sheet bug. As usual, it was a human error (when isn't it?)... My bad!

[RITCH]
(BUGS)
- "Greatswords" were not referring to the correct graphic when equipped... Sorry! I'm still new to this "objects on player doll" stuff...!
*** As usual, head over to the Wilderness for your quick-fix!


~~~ VOLATILE ~~~
*** NEW ADDITION FOR RITCH!
[Hydra]
> Recuperate is still on-going

[Fire Drake]
> Fire absorption is still on-going

[Ritch]
> Free Cold Blood is still on-going
*** Someone brought me to an interesting conclusion... Ritch's current weakness lies in its inflexibility of talent choices! So... Let's see what happens if we give Ritch the opportunity to become ANYTHING it wants...
- Starts with nearly all talent trees locked, refunding their category points in return. Choose wisely what kind of killer you want to be... Develop wings and fly? Develop glands and spit? Develop stingers and... Sting? It's up to you now!
Creator of the (rather large) "Odyssey of The Summoner" add-on pack

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