Witherer: v2.0.0

[Radon26]

you mean "this" is not supposed to be this way and the proper pictures are actually somewhere in there?
i just assumed it was going to be updated later.

[HousePet]

Patched it.

[Kanos]

I gave the class a quick glance and it seems interesting but the lack of any free Vim restoration options(Drain) makes it borderline unplayable early on. I understand that the idea is to stack up a ton of debuffs and cash in, but the cost of the spells required to stack the debuffs outweighs the gain from the passive, and Vim as a resource is traditionally not well balanced around having to cast multiple spells for every trash mob if you want to stay resource solvent.

[Radon26]

really? i never had any problem with that.

i just put 2 points in poison could, and 2 points in the generic, for bonus on kills, and wow. i never run out of vim.
AND THAT WAS UNDEAD DUNGEON! where every second mob is immune to poisons. i had to respec everything (have a mod so i can) to fight the bone giant, but guess what, i did it. i killed the bastard.
sure, i was a Wraith, so i had 20 will. getting 2 vim base might have had something to do but still. i was full at all times, except for fighting the giant, and even then i didn't run out.
yeah, the passive bonus from withering touch (or whatever was the name of that skill) was also useful to lower their offensive and defensive power.
ok, the artefact staff that had some on hit damage might have also had something to do with it.

[Kanos]

Are you playing on normal? I typically play on Nightmare, which means everything is substantially more durable.

[Radon26]

yes, i did play on normal.
and i see what you mean.

[HousePet]

So did you actually try it, or just look at it? And what did you try?
Most of the talent costs were not analysed in great detail. There is only so much I can do with only one person giving feedback in the beta. Do you have any specific suggestions?

[Radon26]

well... null's blood mage gets his vim on every hit (and a bonus per diseases on target), and has passive blood casting. so he restores during a fight.
the 2 vanilla classes have drain that can replenish a chunk of your vim, and vim sense which can make you virtually invulnerable, as well as replenish your vim 10 times, if used right.

your witherer not only (outside of that one self hurt talent) gets his vim solely from kills, it is also DoT heavy, so bosses will take way more vim than they give back on death.
so if you are fighting a problematic enemy (or DG forbid a ziguranth), once your vim runs down it stays down.
there has to be some in combat refill, not just after combat.

perhaps some talent that replenishes your vim from enemies taking bleeding damage?
no wait, there is literally like a single talent that does bleed...
you know what... just give them sanguinage or whatever this cat is called.

[64legos]

I agree with Radon, vim restoration is horrible. The only way to restore vim is through killing enemies (practically useless for long fights) or using that talent that recovers vim when you're debuffed (said vim restoration being pathetic).

If you run out of vim, your dead, as there's no way to quickly restore vim. Mana Clash is pretty much instant death (as my poor witherer found out).

The other defilers don't have this problem thanks to Drain (reavers, corruptors), or not being useless without vim (doombringers, demonologists).

I suggest adding the Sanguisuge tree. Between Drain and Bloodcasting, it'll greatly help with vim management.

[Radon26]

at least until a proper solution is devised.

[HousePet]

Maybe I'll add some Vim recovery when you take damage to Decayed Harvest?

[Radon26]

would it be flat 'when hit' vim gain, or would it be based on the actual amount of health lost?
we've all already seen what vim sense does to your vim bar. if it's not limited by a duration, someone trying to be super tanky (with biohazard), that might get out of control.

the healing of biohazard (assuming you keep deseasing or poisoning yourself)...
ah right, you cannot poison yourself with the cloud. how the hell do you get that on yourself?

yeah, the vim gain has to be % of the health lost.
or something completely different, but until we find the perfect solution it will do.
maybe add "only once a turn"?

[HousePet]

You don't take damage from disease or poison with Biohazard active, so that won't work.

Updated:
Decayed Harvest now grants an additional vim regain equal to 3-12% of the damage you take from enemies.
Lowered several talent costs.

[Radon26]

yeah i know that you cannot poison yourself with a cloud, i tryed that already.

but the thing is, biohazard doesn't just prevent damage. it makes them heal you instead.
so it would seem obvious, that you would use it as a massive healing ability.
but since you cannot poison yourself, its loses a lot. sure, you can still virulent disease yourself...
would casting catalepsy be a healing too?

[HousePet]

Catalepsy is a no.
Toxic Cure is a yes though.