(Rough Idea) Clerics!

[NemesisZeru]

Almost a mix of Anorthils and Solipsists, Clerics believe in their chosen deities, attributing their strengths and successes to them, even if they don't exist. The faith and willpower of the Cleric is so strong, that at higher levels they can actually manifest their 'deities' to aid them in combat.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tqQ ... QZKzo/edit


I don't have a whooole lot figured out so far, but I like the idea. Each deity gives different effects(Ideally, it'd have an effect on each skill, but that might be really complicated and obtuse).

[Zonk]

Why gods (which you yourself mention don't exist) when it could be 'spirits' or specific stars / planets or something?

I mean, I am not 'sold' on the class concept, since thematically it's a Solipsist (they do things with pure willpower), but they get celestial powers. Except you mention a 'Queen of the Forest' who doesn't sound very celestial (more like a Wilder thing, in fact).
So I am a bit confused by the class idea.

[edge2054]

I like the concept.

Reminds me a lot of how magic is presented in Shadowrun/Earthdawn (which I'm sure I borrowed heavily from for Solipsists).

That said I see were Zonk is coming from. Celestial Magic really isn't divine. It was at first but that stuff's been scrubbed pretty hard. You could think of Light and Dark as additional elements in a 'Mage' sense.

Another way to handle this would be as a sort of manifester Psion class. Solipsists use this schtick heavily but there's no reason you couldn't manifest yourself Gods rather than thought forms.

[NemesisZeru]

Why gods (which you yourself mention don't exist) when it could be 'spirits' or specific stars / planets or something?

I mean, I am not 'sold' on the class concept, since thematically it's a Solipsist (they do things with pure willpower), but they get celestial powers. Except you mention a 'Queen of the Forest' who doesn't sound very celestial (more like a Wilder thing, in fact).
So I am a bit confused by the class idea.

Because I forgot gods didn't exist anymore when I first started. It was only after I asked on the irc that I found that out. So I just made some up. With Eyal being not the nicest of places, why wouldn't some turn to (Admittedly fictional) deities for hope?

Anyways, each deity is supposed to be a specific flavor: Solarion boosts typical light mage stuff, while Valielle is more defensive/antimagic, and Mezthalios is 'burn all the things!'

That said, it could work as a Psionic thing, too...I'm just not sure how to rewrite everything to make it so it isn't just a renamed Solipisist.

I like the concept.

Reminds me a lot of how magic is presented in Shadowrun/Earthdawn (which I'm sure I borrowed heavily from for Solipsists).

That said I see were Zonk is coming from. Celestial Magic really isn't divine. It was at first but that stuff's been scrubbed pretty hard. You could think of Light and Dark as additional elements in a 'Mage' sense.

Another way to handle this would be as a sort of manifester Psion class. Solipsists use this schtick heavily but there's no reason you couldn't manifest yourself Gods rather than thought forms.

Fair enough. I was taking the Light part of things a bit literally.

[edge2054]

You could still use Light or whatever element you wanted. I think there's a lot of room for imagining stuff into existence as a Psion that doesn't go the route Solipsists do.

Like I don't think Solipsists are really self-deceiving. They're tapping into the power of the collective unconscious, hence the emphasis on dreams etc. When their Psi gets low they fall into Nihilism/Solipsism but that's more that I wanted that trade off and because I was wrestling a bit with those philosophical issues myself when I wrote the class.

The idea of a powerful Psion that has no idea they're even psionic and is making very powerful imaginary friends I think would work quite well. I don't know that I'd call the class a Cleric at that point though.

But if you wanted to keep the priestly niche you could work in a flock of some kind. A self-deceptive Psion that's drawing power not just from their own belief but from the belief of others as well.

Anyway I think the idea does have potential

Of course another route is just 'lore be damned'. It's an addon. Part of what makes addons great is the freedom to make stuff that doesn't have a place in the canon game lore.

Someday I may just do a silly joke addon class full of bad puns

[NemesisZeru]

You could still use Light or whatever element you wanted. I think there's a lot of room for imagining stuff into existence as a Psion that doesn't go the route Solipsists do.

Like I don't think Solipsists are really self-deceiving. They're tapping into the power of the collective unconscious, hence the emphasis on dreams etc. When their Psi gets low they fall into Nihilism/Solipsism but that's more that I wanted that trade off and because I was wrestling a bit with those philosophical issues myself when I wrote the class.

The idea of a powerful Psion that has no idea they're even psionic and is making very powerful imaginary friends I think would work quite well. I don't know that I'd call the class a Cleric at that point though.

But if you wanted to keep the priestly niche you could work in a flock of some kind. A self-deceptive Psion that's drawing power not just from their own belief but from the belief of others as well.

Anyway I think the idea does have potential

Of course another route is just 'lore be damned'. It's an addon. Part of what makes addons great is the freedom to make stuff that doesn't have a place in the canon game lore.

Someday I may just do a silly joke addon class full of bad puns

Fair enough. I was thinking that, as a Psionic class, I'd have to change it all to Mind stuff, which might have gotten a bit bland. I'm probably taking metaclass stuff a bit too harshly, haha.

That said, the priestly bit can be dropped. Although I like the whole 'deity' thing, using that doesn't lock me into it, y'know? Not sure how I'd do the damage trees without the priest angle, though. I could keep the holy stuff as like, borrowing the 'deity's ' divinity or something, but I dunno.

I guess a possibility could be like each tree summons a deity/mythical creature/whatever, and the following three talents buff them/give them new skills or something?

[Zonk]

What if you did this as a Solipsist variant - or even just a new tree - where you channel 'collective consciousness'/belief? That might make more sense. Can't think of actual mechanics though

[malboro_urchin]

You could still use Light or whatever element you wanted. I think there's a lot of room for imagining stuff into existence as a Psion that doesn't go the route Solipsists do.

Like I don't think Solipsists are really self-deceiving. They're tapping into the power of the collective unconscious, hence the emphasis on dreams etc. When their Psi gets low they fall into Nihilism/Solipsism but that's more that I wanted that trade off and because I was wrestling a bit with those philosophical issues myself when I wrote the class.

The idea of a powerful Psion that has no idea they're even psionic and is making very powerful imaginary friends I think would work quite well. I don't know that I'd call the class a Cleric at that point though.

But if you wanted to keep the priestly niche you could work in a flock of some kind. A self-deceptive Psion that's drawing power not just from their own belief but from the belief of others as well.

Anyway I think the idea does have potential

Of course another route is just 'lore be damned'. It's an addon. Part of what makes addons great is the freedom to make stuff that doesn't have a place in the canon game lore.

Someday I may just do a silly joke addon class full of bad puns

Fair enough. I was thinking that, as a Psionic class, I'd have to change it all to Mind stuff, which might have gotten a bit bland. I'm probably taking metaclass stuff a bit too harshly, haha.

That said, the priestly bit can be dropped. Although I like the whole 'deity' thing, using that doesn't lock me into it, y'know? Not sure how I'd do the damage trees without the priest angle, though. I could keep the holy stuff as like, borrowing the 'deity's ' divinity or something, but I dunno.

I guess a possibility could be like each tree summons a deity/mythical creature/whatever, and the following three talents buff them/give them new skills or something?

I like the whole priestly cleric idea, and I certainly think it could be done in a psionic fashion, if you're not opposed to that, NemesisZeru. You could flavor it as someone channeling their ideals (whether they be holy retribution, earth's embrace, or burning vengeance personified) into reality using Psi.

[NemesisZeru]

You could still use Light or whatever element you wanted. I think there's a lot of room for imagining stuff into existence as a Psion that doesn't go the route Solipsists do.

Like I don't think Solipsists are really self-deceiving. They're tapping into the power of the collective unconscious, hence the emphasis on dreams etc. When their Psi gets low they fall into Nihilism/Solipsism but that's more that I wanted that trade off and because I was wrestling a bit with those philosophical issues myself when I wrote the class.

The idea of a powerful Psion that has no idea they're even psionic and is making very powerful imaginary friends I think would work quite well. I don't know that I'd call the class a Cleric at that point though.

But if you wanted to keep the priestly niche you could work in a flock of some kind. A self-deceptive Psion that's drawing power not just from their own belief but from the belief of others as well.

Anyway I think the idea does have potential

Of course another route is just 'lore be damned'. It's an addon. Part of what makes addons great is the freedom to make stuff that doesn't have a place in the canon game lore.

Someday I may just do a silly joke addon class full of bad puns

Fair enough. I was thinking that, as a Psionic class, I'd have to change it all to Mind stuff, which might have gotten a bit bland. I'm probably taking metaclass stuff a bit too harshly, haha.

That said, the priestly bit can be dropped. Although I like the whole 'deity' thing, using that doesn't lock me into it, y'know? Not sure how I'd do the damage trees without the priest angle, though. I could keep the holy stuff as like, borrowing the 'deity's ' divinity or something, but I dunno.

I guess a possibility could be like each tree summons a deity/mythical creature/whatever, and the following three talents buff them/give them new skills or something?

I like the whole priestly cleric idea, and I certainly think it could be done in a psionic fashion, if you're not opposed to that, NemesisZeru. You could flavor it as someone channeling their ideals (whether they be holy retribution, earth's embrace, or burning vengeance personified) into reality using Psi.

I'm certainly not opposed to it!

I could rename the Sun's Chosen tree Divinity, and have it work like the deities 'channeling' their power through you. Or, I could make a tree for each. In fact, it works better as a Psionic since I can push the antimagic flavor of Valielle more without shooting myself in the foot. :3

[malboro_urchin]

This is my take on it, obviously feel free to disagree or discard whatever you wish:
The nice thing about psionics is the whole 'mind' thing, because while true gods may be dead, that doesn't make it impossible for someone to envision an avatar or personification of a deific concept. Add in strong adventurer's willpower and you have a cleric!

I wouldn't worry about damage types too much; these clerics are very strongly dedicated to their beliefs, and this dedication manifests itself through mind powers appropriate to each deity.

A curious thought: I know you have a nature theme somewhere in here, would you make those only mind powers and specifically not nature gifts?

[NemesisZeru]

This is my take on it, obviously feel free to disagree or discard whatever you wish:
The nice thing about psionics is the whole 'mind' thing, because while true gods may be dead, that doesn't make it impossible for someone to envision an avatar or personification of a deific concept. Add in strong adventurer's willpower and you have a cleric!

I wouldn't worry about damage types too much; these clerics are very strongly dedicated to their beliefs, and this dedication manifests itself through mind powers appropriate to each deity.

A curious thought: I know you have a nature theme somewhere in here, would you make those only mind powers and specifically not nature gifts?

Hadn't thought of talent types yet, admittedly. Probably would be mind powers, since it's still ultimately psionic in nature.

[malboro_urchin]

Hadn't thought of talent types yet, admittedly. Probably would be mind powers, since it's still ultimately psionic in nature.

I see what you did there

[NemesisZeru]

Hadn't thought of talent types yet, admittedly. Probably would be mind powers, since it's still ultimately psionic in nature.

I see what you did there

I don't, haha.

[malboro_urchin]

Hadn't thought of talent types yet, admittedly. Probably would be mind powers, since it's still ultimately psionic in nature.

I see what you did there

I don't, haha.

[NemesisZeru]

Hadn't thought of talent types yet, admittedly. Probably would be mind powers, since it's still ultimately psionic in nature.

I see what you did there

I don't, haha.

Oooh...lol.

Anyways, I'm trying to figure out what to do for the basically-Solipsism tree currently. Originally it was going to basically be a straight port of Solipsism, but some of the talents would have been really OP(the global speed one), or just not work, so I'm not entirely sure what to do with it. x3