New rogue tree - Subterfuge (0.4 Released)

[Calodine]

An advanced defensive stealth tree, with a little extra punch. Still very much rough around the edges, with no icons as yet, but it should all work. Can grab it here: http://te4.org/games/addons/tome/subterfuge


- Furtive Footwork

Small stealth/movespeed boost, can sustain to trade the movespeed boost for a % boost to your total stealth power.

- Heartseeker

Gain up to 15% based on TL of your stealth power as phys resist penetration.

Rogues get plenty of AS and armour pen. Have absolutely no way short of a prodigy to get through resists. This gives them that. Aiming for around ~30% pen for people who invest heavily in stealth.

- Lights out

Targeted AoE with a fairly large radius. Unlights all affected tiles and gives up to 10% chance to avoid any given damage instance while in the area. 8 turn duration, 12 turn cooldown.

Turns out enemies check if they can see you, and if they're in range to actually see you...Then ignore all that and go right ahead anyway if the area is lit. Somewhat small/unreliable damage reduction, along with a way to unlight tiles. It's fairly spammable, so it can be used to set up an area before a fight.

- Honed Reflexes

When you take more than 50% of your max life in damage between turns, you prevent all remaining damage and gain a turn. TL reduces cooldown from 'really goddamn long' to like 20 turns or so.

I was asking a lot of people about madness-level defensive mechanisms. I didn't like anything other than sacrifice conceptually for rogues, and that's already been done. Hopefully stealing fey luck and nerfing it into the ground will be enough.

[Calodine]

Updated it.

Now has basic icons for the skills, and a sound effect for when Honed Reflexes triggers. IE 'stuff I should have done last night but was too goddamn tired'.

If anyone does try it, need opinions on the first skill. In theory it's decent, but the execution - another sustain that you need to manage, and in particular turn on before heastseeker for max efficiency - feels weird and bad. Is this just me thinking too hard, or does anyone have a better idea for it?

Also Lights Out. It's for dropping targetting - if you stealth up and manage to lose aggro in the unlit area, you can sneak around people a lot better. Still not sure if it does enough, or if the radius is too big. Opinions here would be nice.

[Micbran]

Heartseeker probably isn't going to shine until later levels. Maybe move its position down the tree or swap it with lights out?

And since heartseeker's scaling is based on stealth, maybe have it provide more phys pen in stealth?

[Calodine]

Swapping heartseeker and Lights out probably isn't the worst idea, yeah. Don't wanna make it require stealth since your unseen actions failing is already so painful for your damage output and HiPS is on a 40 second cooldown.


Considering changing Lights out to a point blank AoE with a HiPS effect, at a much lower multiplier. This would make it worse for preparing an area in advance - the benefit of darkness is only if they haven't already targeted you -but much better for when you're already fighting. More to the point, it gives an extra 'get out of dodge' button Given vault/tumble aren't very good and nimble movements is blocked by enemies, this might be handy. Would make Heartseeker requiring stealth be much easier to justify, too.

Still not sure what to do with Furtive Footsteps. It just seems kinda boring right now. Too strong to be a passive, but has no reason beyond that to be a sustain. And I really dislike that you need to use the sustains in a particular order to be effective.

[jayseesee]

Inf LUA

--------------- Stack Dump Finished ---------------
Lua Error: /data-subterfuge/talents/cunning/subterfuge.lua:182: attempt to call method 'playSouncNear' (a nil value)
At [C]:-1 playSouncNear
At /data-subterfuge/talents/cunning/subterfuge.lua:182 callTalent
At /mod/class/Actor.lua:4664 fireTalentCheck
At /mod/class/Actor.lua:716 act
At /mod/class/NPC.lua:54 act
At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:126 tickLevel
At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:62 tick
At /engine/GameTurnBased.lua:46 tick
At /mod/class/Game.lua:1181
---------------- Stack Dump ----------------

[Calodine]

Aaand that's what I get for having two copies of the same file open.

Fixed that, dropped the max radius on lights out a bit, and swapped it and heartseeker around in the tree. Dropped the trigger % on honed reflexes from 50% to 45%. This is at base mastery, so you're looking at a little under 40% for it.

[Calodine]

If anyone's actually using this, there was a bug that was messing up heightened senses range - it's fixed now. No more permanent blindness!

[NemesisZeru]

If anyone's actually using this, there was a bug that was messing up heightened senses range - it's fixed now. No more permanent blindness!

I plan on using it the next time I make a Rogue, which may be on the Stream I'm doing this weekend. Giving some fun new stuff to Stealth is always fun. =3

[Calodine]

Das cool, I'm still thinking lights out needs to be changed somehow. It just doesn't feel like it's worth a turn as is - You need levels in hide in plain sight to make the darkness a big advantage, and even then it's on a 40 turn cd. It's definitely worth doing in advance, as part of a slower overall playstyle on harder difficulties (Which you can use stealth on due to bigger numbers!), but for normal and kinda NM it's just...I dunno.

Would be cool to get someone else's opinion on it, jay tried but has some sort of feverish hate for rogues

[Effigy]

I haven't tried it, but from the descriptions it sounds pretty good.

One idea: maybe add a stealth power bonus while under the Lights Out effect? This would also synergize with Heartseeker.

[Calodine]

Could do! Might try shifting the % bonus from Furtive footwork over and changing that a bit, to ease up on having to put your sustains on in the right order.

It's worth noting that Lights out isn't 10% evasion, it's avoid ANY damage - you can totally dodge fireballs and/or meteors in the smoke.

[Sheila]

Could do! Might try shifting the % bonus from Furtive footwork over and changing that a bit, to ease up on having to put your sustains on in the right order.

It's worth noting that Lights out isn't 10% evasion, it's avoid ANY damage - you can totally dodge fireballs and/or meteors in the smoke.

you just made mindstars rogue even better!
gotta stack that with leaves tide

[Micbran]

Could do! Might try shifting the % bonus from Furtive footwork over and changing that a bit, to ease up on having to put your sustains on in the right order.

It's worth noting that Lights out isn't 10% evasion, it's avoid ANY damage - you can totally dodge fireballs and/or meteors in the smoke.

you just made mindstars rogue even better!
gotta stack that with leaves tide

Mindstar rogue? Gimmie a sec, I'll be back...