Forge Knight

[Red]

So is there any possibility that, perhaps with maxed skills and an extra cat point put in, you could upgrade item tiers? Dwarven Steel to Stralite, Stralite to Voratun, Voratun to Stralatun/Vorlite? (Don't ask how it makes sense. You have a non-magical pocket forge.)

It'd be a cool way to really reward those who focus entirely on forging.

[Senteth]

So is there any possibility that, perhaps with maxed skills and an extra cat point put in, you could upgrade item tiers? Dwarven Steel to Stralite, Stralite to Voratun, Voratun to Stralatun/Vorlite? (Don't ask how it makes sense. You have a non-magical pocket forge.)

It'd be a cool way to really reward those who focus entirely on forging.

Maybe make it a part of the new Refine Item skill.

It sounds like a cool way to allow you to take say, an early-game randart or unique with some great abilities you can't live without, and have it still be relevant in higher levels. You wouldn't be able to add new abilities to it, (same as how refining currently works) but the base damage, accuracy, etc would improve. (or armor level, elemental resist, etc for armor)

[grayswandir]

That really wouldn't do much. Item tier doesn't have much of an effect at all once an item's been created. The parts it'd be easy to "fake" adding a tier are already covered - the talents already add to the damage and accuracy and such.

Although, the idea of taking a low-tier item and bringing it up to your current level (just with straight damage bonuses) does sound like it'd be useful, I can't think of a way to do it thematically. "Reforging" something by replacing the material completely? I don't see it.

[Senteth]

That really wouldn't do much. Item tier doesn't have much of an effect at all once an item's been created. The parts it'd be easy to "fake" adding a tier are already covered - the talents already add to the damage and accuracy and such.

Although, the idea of taking a low-tier item and bringing it up to your current level (just with straight damage bonuses) does sound like it'd be useful, I can't think of a way to do it thematically. "Reforging" something by replacing the material completely? I don't see it.

Maybe use a higher-tier weapon/armor as a consumable material to melt down, and then mix the metal in with that of the existing weapon/armor's?

[Red]

Huh. Didn't think of that. Perhaps guilding, or just superior forging on the material?

Material->Tempered Material->Strengthened Material->Superior Material->Ulitmate Material

Or hell, just give those names to forged items without any new modifiers based on your total skill in the relevant category when forging it. (1-7 regular forged, 8-12 Tempered, 13-16 Strengthened, 17-19 Superior, 20 Ultimate)

[spiralrazor]

Issue with items using Equilibrium skills.

If you get an item with say Poison breath...it increases your equilibrium on each proc...when you go to switch to an item with an equilibrium skill, you cant use it from having 100s of equlibrium that you cant dump...

Not good.

[spiralrazor]

Dont think the class needs something like increasing material states..its already overpowered:)

[Red]

Perhaps change abilities to be an item ability and not a granted player ability? That should definitely work with active abilities, but I've got no clue how that functions with sustains, if it does at all.

Alternatively, just give Forge Knights the Meditation -.5 Equilibrium when resting passive. They shouldn't have the Call of the Wild tree, but just that should be more than enough unless you're really unlucky with your best abilities all being Wild-Gifts.

Other problematic resources include Paradox (though that can lower on its own through anomalies and backfires. That being said, it;d suck to rely on them, but at least it isn't toally useless) and Positive/Negative Energy. I've never forged anything with a skill using these resources, but if it's possible it's something to catch before it ruins a good piece of equipment.

[spiralrazor]

also:


Now when you reforge, even if your not anti-magic, you can reforge something that has the arcane disrupting forces mod..

this is enough for me to have stopped playing it until fixed...went back to my blood mage.

[Red]

Spiral, just to clear that up before Dao sees this, are you saying you can reforge items that are arcane disrupting, or you can add the disrupting ego to items you reforge?

The first is a non-issue, so I'd assume it's the latter, but your post isn't clear.

[spiralrazor]

Positive and negative seem to take care of themselves, as does the hate and vim resources...vim tricky to use but it does work.

Equilibrium is a big one, as theres plenty of breathes, slime spits and acid sprays.

[spiralrazor]

Spiral, just to clear that up before Dao sees this, are you saying you can reforge items that are arcane disrupting, or you can add the disrupting ego to items you reforge?

The first is a non-issue, so I'd assume it's the latter, but your post isn't clear.

meant that you can take an item with an ego, thats arcane enchanted, and it reforges into Anti Magic. There needs to be a flag check when reforging that if it doesnt detect the anti magic tree in your talents list, no items are forged with that property.

Something has def changed in one of these updates because the only way to get it before was to forge a white item. In fact, i was actually enjoying it because when i found an anti magic ego'd item, i would reforge it and strip that property....I never play anti magic because AM is not competitive on higher difficulty levels and it was fun to play with there toys.

[Dao Zeti]

Spiral, just to clear that up before Dao sees this, are you saying you can reforge items that are arcane disrupting, or you can add the disrupting ego to items you reforge?

The first is a non-issue, so I'd assume it's the latter, but your post isn't clear.

meant that you can take an item with an ego, thats arcane enchanted, and it reforges into Anti Magic. There needs to be a flag check when reforging that if it doesnt detect the anti magic tree in your talents list, no items are forged with that property.

Something has def changed in one of these updates because the only way to get it before was to forge a white item. In fact, i was actually enjoying it because when i found an anti magic ego'd item, i would reforge it and strip that property....I never play anti magic because AM is not competitive on higher difficulty levels and it was fun to play with there toys.

If what you said is true, it would be indeed fatal. I did some extended testing (forging with non AM-egoed,rare and uniques) , but couldnt reproduce this. The code changes power-sources in the following way:
A. Items become powered by technqiue ("...by a master"), powered by nature/psionic etc. is erased
B. Uniques (orange/golden) that are arcane powered keep that flag (so they can't be used by AMs after reforging)
C. Any item with an AM flag stays AM
D. If a non-AM item gets a talent from the pure magic school (so excluding anything but mana based talents) it becomes arcane powered

Big exception is when turning a white into a forged item. This is purely random and anything is possible. Now, there is always the possibility I screwed up somewhere, and if someone makes the same experience as spiralrazor, I have to do some serious analyzing.

Issue with items using Equilibrium skills.

If you get an item with say Poison breath...it increases your equilibrium on each proc...when you go to switch to an item with an equilibrium skill, you cant use it from having 100s of equlibrium that you cant dump...

Not good.

Definately not intended. I see into it.

Other problematic resources include Paradox (though that can lower on its own through anomalies and backfires. That being said, it;d suck to rely on them, but at least it isn't toally useless) and Positive/Negative Energy. I've never forged anything with a skill using these resources, but if it's possible it's something to catch before it ruins a good piece of equipment.

Positive Energy shouldn't be an issue. There are two talents, Healing Light/Barrier that can appear on helms/shields), they add to it however. Paradox Talents don't appear as on_hit, only as learnable talents, so its calculable. Vim could be an issue in respect to on_hit talents - will check, if Vim gets drained too.

From reading the code responsible for talents_on_hits in combat.lua, they should ignore resources when activated, however. I need to do some further testing when I got time.

Code: Select all

-- On hit talent
	if hitted and not target.dead and weapon and weapon.talent_on_hit and next(weapon.talent_on_hit) and not self.turn_procs.melee_talent then
		for tid, data in pairs(weapon.talent_on_hit) do
			if rng.percent(data.chance) then
				self.turn_procs.melee_talent = true
				self:forceUseTalent(tid, {ignore_cd=true, ignore_energy=true, force_target=target, force_level=data.level, ignore_ressources=true})
			end
		end
	end

In regards to material levels: I like the system as is, and it really wouldn't make too much sense game-wise for the forger to transmute common into rare metals. Thats rather the field of alchemy. Also, anything above Tier 5 materials would lead to problems, as there are no defined base item beyond that tiert. And furthermore, loot from the east would become completely uninteresting, if you were able to get Tier 4/5s reliably from Dreadfell.

[Red]

Vim shouldn't be an issue for anyone, since it regenerates on murder. The only issue that might pop up with Vim is the refund on death, but even then it shouldn't be a major issue since you'll likely not have more than one or two Vim skills.

[Jurriaan]

I just won with a dwarven forge knight on normal, and I have some thoughts

1) Win(d)blade/Legacy of the Naloren absolutely rocks. My reforged trident (power 124-199)
hit like nothing else - I got over 2000 physical damage against argoniel with normal bump attacks.
Windblade got over 7000....

2) Weapon Synchronisation got me +55% movement speed - that seems like a lot.

3) Vigorous Assault got me +60% attack speed - very comfortable, but a bit overpowered

Overall, lots of fun!