Nullpack 2019-02-21: Gravitic Infantry

[Doctornull]

Minor update to the Transcendent Fist:

- Removed Augmented Mobility (since it's now Generic and no longer based on Cunning)
- Removed Voidwalker (since Pugilism now provides decent mobility, especially combined with Far Strike)
- Added Finer Energy Manipulation (since it's now based on Cunning)

The tree list is looking kind of anemic, though, since the class lost both high level trees -- Grip was removed from the game, and Augmented Mobility is now a low-level Generic tree.

I'm probably going to have to create a new tree or two.

[saleet]

First off, I want to say thank you for all the hard work on this. It's great. Can tell a lot of hard work went into it.

So, the class that I find most interesting so far is the Transcendent Fist. Been playing with it a bit, looks to have a lot of promise. But.... I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed a bit of something that might be an error? That being that the seems to have it's 'primary stats' set to all. Which wouldn't be too big a deal aside from the Beyond the Flesh talent. The result is a really big boost to -all- stats if you hold a gem in your TK slot.

I'm honestly feeling like Beyond the Flesh and United Body together might be a bit much. It ends up as a pretty incredibly large boost. With the primary stats set to all, I have a lvl 10 char with an 82pt stat boost!! (Ok, really only 74, since magic is a dump stat, but still... This is lvl 10) I'm carrying an opal in the TK slot, for +8 to each stat, which is 48 pts, and I've dumped almost every lvl stat pt into Dex and cun, which has resulted in 14str and 20con from 5/5 Unified Body.

Might be less outlandish if you fix the primary stats, but... Worth considering that having those 2 talents together on a char might be over kill.

Not sure. I'm honestly still pretty new at this game, so uncertain how big a boost this is going to end up giving in the long run. Thought I'd mention though.

As an aside, coming up with generic points is going to be a pain once I stack on AM and fungus. This class ends up feeling much more stretched on that side, but lacking in things to spend class pts on, as many of the class skills feel fine as 1pt wonders.

Edit: just noticed you mentioning making a new tree or two. Definitely would love that. Needs some high lvl locked class talents.

[saleet]

Ideas for things for the locked/high lvl trees: the class has basically nothing to spend psi on. One heal, plus resonance cloak and some sustains. It could use more.

Also of note, all of the finishers are pretty fiddly. They are -interesting- certainly, and add a lot of survivability, but it might be nice to have something that's more damage focused. At this point I'm mainly spending my combo points on melee range Far Strike, which seems weird, but it's noticeably the biggest damage dealer, once stacked with combo points.

Coversely with psi, I'm burning through stamina in any battle that lasts more than a few turns. An interesting way of getting back stamina could be good. But the class feels like it's trying to be a complex flow of action, so it doesn't feel like per turn/on hit/on being hit feel right. Perhaps on deactivating a shield, or per space moved (including strange movement like Backfist and transposition), or even another fiddly finisher, since that seems to be in theme. Honestly though, just having a few other 'buttons' that burn psi instead of stamina would be enough to keep you in the fight longer. Which seems to be the thing, since TF is a seriously tanky class.

[Doctornull]

But.... I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed a bit of something that might be an error? That being that the seems to have it's 'primary stats' set to all. Which wouldn't be too big a deal aside from the Beyond the Flesh talent. The result is a really big boost to -all- stats if you hold a gem in your TK slot.

I'm honestly feeling like Beyond the Flesh and United Body together might be a bit much.

Yeah I've tested out playing up to level ~20 or so while spending ZERO STAT POINTS and just using gear drops and various gem foci to qualify for talents. The stat buff inflation in 1.2.x is just silly. It seems like a bit much because it is a bit much, but those changes were not my decision, and hopefully they'll get reined in at some point.

I'm working on the new high-level trees. Hopefully they'll be awesome.

[saleet]

Woo! Good to hear. ^_^ I mean about the new trees. Sadly, I died, so I can't tell you much about higher levels. . Wondering though... The Beyond the Flesh tooltip says it boosts a few primary stats. For TF it boosts -all- stats. Wondering if there is a flag somewhere in the class object for primary stats that defaults to 'all'? Could reduce some of the mayhem simply by cutting the class down to just 2-3 primary stats? Idk, I haven't even begin to poke at the code side(not really my forte).

While awaiting higher trees, Tireless Combatant could work for the stamina, though that feels like a cheap hack. Really, the class feels like it wants a custom made fancy way to rebuild stamina that fits it's odd theme. But it definitely needs one, watching my char rest for 174 turns to reach full Sta feels silly. Lol.

[HousePet]

You are confused about what primary stats means. All of the attribute stats are 'primary' as they don't rely on any other stat. Other stats like life, stamina or physical save, are 'secondary' stats, as they are dependent on other stats.

[Doctornull]

The Beyond the Flesh tooltip says it boosts a few primary stats. For TF it boosts -all- stats.

Report this in the Bugs forum. It should not say "primary stats". Everywhere else in the game, stats are just called "stats".

Meh, while I'm here I might as well do it. Bug thread here: http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=42435

You are confused about what primary stats means. All of the attribute stats are 'primary' as they don't rely on any other stat. Other stats like life, stamina or physical save, are 'secondary' stats, as they are dependent on other stats.

That's a really weaselly way of describing stats, and it's also wrong. For example, life per level is also non-secondary, does it get a boost? How about vim per level?

If you wrote this, then you misspoke.

Say "ability stats" if you want, but don't say "primary stats". It's needlessly confusing.

[cctobias]

Hmm I am not sure how I feel about voidwalker getting removed I thought it made the class really fun.

However I have to say the Voidwalker line itself seems a bit OP, you can get really high resistances with it and a couple voidwalker items and it was a bit much on the Fist class that other one that uses it maybe not since its weaker is some regards, but probably there too. I think I was able to get basically sustained 50+% res all + large condition reduction going fairly easy.

[HousePet]

That's a really weaselly way of describing stats, and it's also wrong. For example, life per level is also non-secondary, does it get a boost? How about vim per level?

I see no reason to criticise weasels over this, they didn't invent to peculiar definition.
Life per level and Vim per level are primary, but not stats.
Welcome to esoteric Roguelike definitions, please leave your sanity by the door...

Have changed it to read 'all attribute stats'.

[grayswandir]

Maybe 'the main 6 stats' would be more clear?

If you look at it from the code perspective, that and luck are the only 'Stats'.

[Doctornull]

Maybe 'the main 6 stats' would be more clear?

If you look at it from the code perspective, that and luck are the only 'Stats'.

Yep. The UI-correct term would just be "all stats", since the stats column is labeled just "Stats".

Hmm I am not sure how I feel about voidwalker getting removed I thought it made the class really fun.

However I have to say the Voidwalker line itself seems a bit OP, you can get really high resistances with it and a couple voidwalker items and it was a bit much on the Fist class that other one that uses it maybe not since its weaker is some regards, but probably there too. I think I was able to get basically sustained 50+% res all + large condition reduction going fairly easy.

I could add Voidwalker back as an option, but I felt that Finer Energy filled more holes, especially for guys who use a weapon in their TK slot. With the Pugilism rework, they get Spinning Backhand early enough that they've got two nice mobility talents (that and Transposition Strike), which in my experience was plenty.

Reshaped armor also makes you spend less Stamina, so that's nice.

[saleet]

Hmm. So, it feels like the Embers of Gerlyk have the same resource issue as TF. No stamina regen. Every class that uses stamina as a primary resource has at least -some- regen form, even if it's just Combat Veteran (that's most common, though there's also Tireless Combatant). Without, sta regens ridiculously slowly. You can basically only count on your 100-200 sta per fight, and have to wait literally -hundreds- of turns after serious fights, resting. Sta regen gear can ameliorate the problem somewhat, but only so much...

[Doctornull]

Hmm. So, it feels like the Embers of Gerlyk have the same resource issue as TF. No stamina regen.

Yep, and for the same reason: the Stamina changes in Pugilism.

Ember also needs some new talents.

Sucks that I'm busy these days.

[saleet]

Ah. Busy happens. Don't take my feedback as criticism, just talking. Your mod is still great work.

[Doctornull]

More of a minor tweaks update than the addition of major functionality. Changes to the Transcendent Fist:

- Body over Mind now costs Psi instead of Stamina, and grants Stamina regeneration while active. Also, instead of unraveling (combo pts) x conditions, now it unravels one condition per turn, and lasts +(combo pts) turns. So it's a valid pre-combat buff and a good mid-combat recovery.

- If you have a weapon or Mindstar in your TK slot, Resonance Cloak now grants extra TK weapon attack chances. This happens around the same time as Mind Over Matter makes its TK weapon attack. In some ways these chances are not as good as what you get from Psi Frenzy, since it's only a chance (50%-90%) to make an attack -- but they stack with Mind Over Matter, so if you've got a boss as your only adjacent target, you may attack him up to twice, which you can't get via Psi Frenzy.

Mindstars get a reduced attack chance, since they get the gem bonus damage effect.