Addon Class: Phantoms

[NemesisZeru]

Edit: Thanks, Forger! I'm a dummy. I'm too used to stone age pixelstuff....so much so that the gradient icon was RIGHT ON THE TOOLBAR and I honestly didn't recognize it.

[NemesisZeru]

Better icons incoming!

[NemesisZeru]

Have some icons!

Vile Tactics

Vile Aim

Shadowsense

Shadow Net

Unveil



Dark Veil

Enveil

Veiled Strike

Twist the Veil

Veiled Threat



Shadowkin

Shadow Alliance

Dark Exchange

Unseen Heckler

Shroud of Shadows




Let me know what you think, everyone! Despite being my first time messing with gradients, some turned out reaaally well(Enveil is a favorite), while some I'm...not so sure on(Veiled Strike and Dark Exchange). Let me know what you think!

[NemesisZeru]

It's come to my attention that the spreading damage of Unseen Heckler does mind damage, like Hateful Whisper(as I never changed the Hateful Whisper effect, so everything outside the initial damage is mind damage. It also still has the cross-tier stuff, although I'm not sure what it entails in this case.).

Would you guys prefer it be left that way, to give them a small splash of non-darkness damage(Possibly even reverting it to full mind damage), or would you prefer I change it? I could go either way on this, really.


v1.5 changes currently planned

-New icons!(Already set up and ready to go)
-Changing Phantom abilities to use the higher of spell or mind crit
-Unseen Heckler changes


Edit: How do the damage skills feel, currently? Are there enough? I'm worried only 4 damage abilities might be too few, and I'm considering adding a new tree to give some more damage options(possibly splashing in a second damage type.). Any thoughts on this? Current idea is an alternate Fears tree that would splash in some mind damage and the like. Tenatively calling it Cursed/Terror. Still trying to figure out talents, but I think the theme of it is nice.

[NemesisZeru]

Alright, with help from the IRC, came up with a better version of Cursed/Horror

http://pastebin.com/P45euRH8

Let me know what you think! Already have some basic icons done. :3

Work has begun on the talents! There's a lot of work to do, though. I'm back in the 'lua errors stop me from getting to character creation' phase. x3

Master of Terror(Thanks Starkeep for letting me use some of his code!):
http://pastebin.com/5Ds56C07

Strain Sanity:
Not started yet.

Insanity:
http://pastebin.com/MYJXNvLM
(I still need to change the mind resistance reduction to darkness, but otherwise it's the least likely to be hilariously broken.)

Shatter Sanity:
Not started yet

[NemesisZeru]

Work on Cursed/Horror is going...alrightish? Once I get Master of Horror working, the others should fall in to place easily enough

Jotewebe is going to make icons for the Horror tree, too! Well, better ones.

[Zaive]

If you want to go with a low max/high regen for mana, you might want to lower mana gain per level even more. Wil increases max mana by 5 per point, and while for most mages this is the only reason to get wil (besides a bit of mindsave), It's also the best per point mindpower gain, making it an important stat for phantom's damage as well. Add to that the future horrors tree, along with cursed form uses Wil for skills. There's also mana boosting equipment (My current phantom has a staff with +100 mana). One less mana point per level isn't going to make a dent in that at all. Maybe remove +mana on level completely?

Vile Aim seems to be a bit strong, at least compared to the archmage's and necromancer's bolt spells. Not a bad thing though, since it's very limited comparatively. It has an unusually high cost (more mana than normal on top of a hate cost), a range of 3, and single target as opposed to the other beam spells, so better damage makes sense.

[NemesisZeru]

If you want to go with a low max/high regen for mana, you might want to lower mana gain per level even more. Wil increases max mana by 5 per point, and while for most mages this is the only reason to get wil (besides a bit of mindsave), It's also the best per point mindpower gain, making it an important stat for phantom's damage as well. Add to that the future horrors tree, along with cursed form uses Wil for skills. There's also mana boosting equipment (My current phantom has a staff with +100 mana). One less mana point per level isn't going to make a dent in that at all. Maybe remove +mana on level completely?

Vile Aim seems to be a bit strong, at least compared to the archmage's and necromancer's bolt spells. Not a bad thing though, since it's very limited comparatively. It has an unusually high cost (more mana than normal on top of a hate cost), a range of 3, and single target as opposed to the other beam spells, so better damage makes sense.

I completely forgot willpower gave mana, haha. I'll try removing +mana on level and see how it is. Might make the high mana cost of Vile Aim hard to dea with, though. Perhaps it might need a cost reduction.

Yeah. Vile Aim was originally made a bit strong since it was their only(And still probably only) damage spell until Shadow Net/Unseen Heckler. Good to hear it isn't TOO strong, though. They could probably use more damage sources outside of shadows and vile tactics. Hoping it's a niche Horror will fill, but we'll see

[NemesisZeru]

My lack of coding skills aside, I'm considering coming back to this! Last I checked they need more buttons, since they only have 4 offensive spells, probably offensive buttons(Although some more mobility options could be neat, too.)

The trick is figuring out what sort of buttons to give them. Horror was a neat idea, but giving them Fears like that was clunky. The general theme(from what I recall) is that they have lower damage, but plenty of CC to make up for it.

Right now they have Slows, Stuns(Abeit situational), and Blinds...what other status effects would fit in with the theme, you think?

On the IRC, Goblinz suggested some form of displacement....and a darkness-themed version of the Rune of the Rift effect would be neat("Shadowy hands pull your target into the darkness, doing X damage. If the target survives, they're trapped in the shadows for X turns.")

A mobility idea that could be neat is a Riftwalk esqe skill: A short range teleport with no cooldown, but a large mana cost, making wise usage of it paramount, considering Phantoms low max Mana.


Anyways, I think the class can only get better, just trying to figure out what would help them most in new trees. If anyone's played Phantoms recently(If they even still work with 1.3), I'd LOVE some feedback! If nothing else, gonna try to plug in the new icons soonish. =3

Edit: Copying down talent ideas as they hit me.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fRL ... jgrO8/edit

[NemesisZeru]

I'm still around, and working on planning an update(which you can see in the linked doc from last post)! So far...

-Shadows removed. Everyone's just maxing them and never using anything more then Vile Aim. Shadows were meant to be more of a distraction for Phantoms, as opposed to their whole damage input, so planning a new tree where they get more distraction-y Shadows with some fun effects(They explode when they die, inflict fears on attackers, etc) should make them more interesting.

-Talents merged into trees! Unseen Heckler is going into Vile Tactics, which is losing Shadowsense and Shadow Net and becoming a Mind Damage tree. A new Shadow tree is in the works as well(3/4 talents done for each)

-Fears and Dark Sustanance removed. Former isn't entirely needed, latter I forget why I added it, and new Vile Harvest should make hated/mana management easier.

Ideally, I want to give them more options that fit the class, putting a new focus on status effect, distractions, and general Batman'ing. Still looking for feedback from players who've played Phantoms, so if you have any thoughts, feel free to put them here or contact me on the IRC. x3


Edit: new talents added to fill out Vile Tactics and the darkness tree!

[malboro_urchin]

I'd personally keep Shadestalker as darkness damage. I don't think there's too many darkness damage trees beyond what Necros and Anorithils get. Maybe have the Vile Tactics tree do 'madness' damage (half mind, half darkness, kind of like dreamforge or warp damage)?

Also, isn't Unveil a bit too niche, especially for a tree's last talent? It would work on rogues, Shaloren, and maybe duathedlen.

[NemesisZeru]

I'd personally keep Shadestalker as darkness damage. I don't think there's too many darkness damage trees beyond what Necros and Anorithils get. Maybe have the Vile Tactics tree do 'madness' damage (half mind, half darkness, kind of like dreamforge or warp damage)?

Also, isn't Unveil a bit too niche, especially for a tree's last talent? It would work on rogues, Shaloren, and maybe duathedlen.

Yeah, currently Shadestalker is Darkness(With Shadow Net moves over to it for thematics), while Vile Tactics is all mind(Vile Aim used to be darkness). Well, currently as in the document I posted up. Madness damage could be interesting, but I don't know much about making new damage types.

As for Unveil...kinda, yeah. But it was just so thematic and cool I felt like it deserved a spot. Plus, I was really proud of the icon. I freely admit something better could probably be there, though.

[malboro_urchin]

Yay! Dev feedback makes me smile!

That makes a lot of sense, Shadestalker being darkness and Vile Tactics being mind.

I think you can make Unveil work if its either: not restricted to only working on invisible/stealthed enemies, or the class has some weird, quirky, and interesting builder->finisher-esque synergy with hiding foes then unveiling them for massive damage. Maybe with this class, stealth puts you at least partially into that plane of darkness mentioned in your writeup (reminded me of D&D 3.5's ethereal and astral planes), hiding you from enemies, and Unveil could treat you being hidden from your enemies the same as your enemies being hidden from you?

Other thoughts: I think the Living Night sustain should confer darkness res pen in addition to what it currently gives (I think though, comparatively few things resist/absorb darkness,but still).

Maybe the Spectre ability could make it harder for enemies to detect you, as they're busy being harried by the spectre?

Could/Should Dark Decoy be toggled to move away from or towards the player? Given that some abilities have Doomed-like range, having enemies move away from you isn't the best idea unless the ability is primarily designed as an escape. Also I love minion/wispsplosions!

Maybe have Bleak Scythe ignore bleed immunity, or maybe ignore a portion of bleed immunity per status effect? Also if by status effect you mean both positive and negative, then that's fantastic, especially with how ToME encourages stacking tons of sustains on many classes.

You could have Heart Extraction (I love this ability!) do damage in a enemy-centric nova/radius if it kills its target, leaving even the staunchest of survivors quivering in fear. Lets the class take out tons of mooks in style, and it can still be used as a strong single-target burst damage move.

Could Gate of Madness summon void horrors in addition to tentacles? Pretty please?

Dark Exchange is a very clever talent. Wouldn't it make more sense to get bonuses for the crit type you're not getting from gear? That is, currently, gives you spellcrit with a staff and mindcrit with a mindstar. What if mindstars gave you spellcrit and vice versa?

For my idle curiosity: I have no idea where or even if new damage types are/need to be created. You've made abilities. Do you have to code in a specific named damage type or can you specify for an ability to do, for example, 50% mind, 50% darkness damage without creating a damage type?

[Razakai]

Best to code a new damage type, that's what I've done for Deathknight (Shadowfrost for Darkness/Cold damage). I don't think there's an existing Darkness/Mind split, despite it being thematically appropriate for Cursed classes. A dark/mind tree would be nice for Doomed, I'd call it something like Torment damage, like the associated ego.

[NemesisZeru]

I'm hardly a dev of any talent, but I'll try to give feedback, sleep-deprived though I am. ;3

Yay! Dev feedback makes me smile!

That makes a lot of sense, Shadestalker being darkness and Vile Tactics being mind.
Yeah, ended up splitting them after deciding to add a new tree. Seemed like a decent enough way to theme things, if not overly fancy.

I think you can make Unveil work if its either: not restricted to only working on invisible/stealthed enemies, or the class has some weird, quirky, and interesting builder->finisher-esque synergy with hiding foes then unveiling them for massive damage. Maybe with this class, stealth puts you at least partially into that plane of darkness mentioned in your writeup (reminded me of D&D 3.5's ethereal and astral planes), hiding you from enemies, and Unveil could treat you being hidden from your enemies the same as your enemies being hidden from you?

Ooh...that could be interesting, although I'm entirely unsure how to impliment it. I wanted to do a lot more with Creeping Darkness and the like, but the code proved super confusing. D:

Other thoughts: I think the Living Night sustain should confer darkness res pen in addition to what it currently gives (I think though, comparatively few things resist/absorb darkness,but still).
Quite possibly, although Shroud of Shadows gives that sort of boost currently, I think. That said, Shroud of Shadows is a boring talent(Cool name aside), so perhaps it could be reworked.

Maybe the Spectre ability could make it harder for enemies to detect you, as they're busy being harried by the spectre?
Hm...that might work better then the defense debuff, actually! Both of them together might be a bit much, though. ;3

Could/Should Dark Decoy be toggled to move away from or towards the player? Given that some abilities have Doomed-like range, having enemies move away from you isn't the best idea unless the ability is primarily designed as an escape. Also I love minion/wispsplosions!
That could be interesting! Was primarily designed as a way to sorta...juke? Like you'd throw it out, enemies would chase it a little, then come back towards you...then you'd switch to the decoy and run. ;3
A way to control it's movements would probably be neat, just not sure how I'd implement it(Expect this answer a lot, sadly). Maybe have the talent give 3 extra activatables? Stay, Away and Towards? :V

Maybe have Bleak Scythe ignore bleed immunity, or maybe ignore a portion of bleed immunity per status effect? Also if by status effect you mean both positive and negative, then that's fantastic, especially with how ToME encourages stacking tons of sustains on many classes.
I forgot bleed resist was a thing at the time, admittedly. Wouldn't be too hard to have it ignore bleed immunity, would it? Was originally meant for just negative effects, but it also 'reaping' positive effects could make a nice TL5 bonus!

You could have Heart Extraction (I love this ability!) do damage in a enemy-centric nova/radius if it kills its target, leaving even the staunchest of survivors quivering in fear. Lets the class take out tons of mooks in style, and it can still be used as a strong single-target burst damage move.
Fun fact: It was inspired by a move from Dungeon Fighter Online(Well, DNF), which was sadly removed:
https://youtu.be/dS0hMqvdVAs (5 seconds in or so is the proper version)
I loved the skill so much, I wanted it to live on in some form! That said, a death nova from the enemy could be fun. =3

Could Gate of Madness summon void horrors in addition to tentacles? Pretty please?
Void Horrors? Hm...could be fitting! I'd have another look to find the most fitting cthulian hellbeast. I was almost thinking one of those Duthdalen(sp?) shadow things, but they might be op? That said, not sure how to code summons, but it could be a fun little perk if it draws in an enemy.


Dark Exchange is a very clever talent. Wouldn't it make more sense to get bonuses for the crit type you're not getting from gear? That is, currently, gives you spellcrit with a staff and mindcrit with a mindstar. What if mindstars gave you spellcrit and vice versa?
I like the concept of Dark Exchange, just need to make it more useful then the current version(which gives neligable stats). I coulda swore I had it as a mix?

Edit: Yeah, Staff gives spell crit/mind power and a single target burst proc, while mindstar gives mind crit/ spell power and aoe debuffs. Maybe the wording was weird?

For my idle curiosity: I have no idea where or even if new damage types are/need to be created. You've made abilities. Do you have to code in a specific named damage type or can you specify for an ability to do, for example, 50% mind, 50% darkness damage without creating a damage type?

Yeah, I think I'd need to figure out how to code a new talent type. I was avoiding giving mixed damage to them at the moment, but on special talents it could be nice. Having mind/darkness damage with the averaged spell/mind crit(Although I might be removing that), would be a bit too...same-y. Torment damage sounds like it could be neat, though!</b>