Elementals (Testing)

[Talow]

In retrospect, I should of checked the version. :Blush:

[grayswandir]

Hunter, Talow, you both mention bugs I thought I'd fixed. Do you have the latest version? (Or did I just forget to upload the fixes. )

Hunter:

Thanks for the feedback!

• In recent versions I switched the actual elemental part from being a class to being a race (using the builtin 'None' class), so I think that will prevent npcs from learning talents.
• You shouldn't be able to learn combat training anymore (except in ID, because that's harder to fix). How'd you get it?
• To my understanding, the class was designed to allow you to build it any which way, so using or not using shields or unarmed is fine.
• How did you suffocate? Jadir shouldn't be able to.
• You should be able to target detonate with shift + arrow keys like anything else.

I'll bug Alex next time I see him to read through your post and see if he has any comments.

Fire guy is next. I'm going a lot slower now, but he's about halfway done. You can actually mess around with him if you start a game in debug mode.

[Talow]

I simply forgot to get the updated version.

[Hunter]

Huh. I'm still on _5. I must have missed the updates. Usually I just skim the add-on page until I reach the first add-on I know I've already seen, depending on the page to put updates at the top. Somehow I missed them. But I managed to do well enough and it only crashed irreparably once, so it's all good. But I'm updating now.

Since it's not the latest, I guess that means my answers to a couple of your questions are meaningless. I got Combat Training the usual way, from one of the merchants in Last Hope, which I assume is what you removed. I suffocated in the Sandworm Tunnels thanks to a bad phase door that put me right at a spot where the tunnel was collapsing. I escaped, obviously, but I took damage.

Somehow, in all my years of playing, I never realized that you could use shift-arrow key to do that. Thanks for the tip for future games.

Glad to hear you're working on new content, however slowly. I look forward to playing with it.

[Einander]

I've been playing the Jadir--Short Staff+Shield mage, originally focused on alternating Earthen Gun and Rock Mortar. I'm just past Dreadfall now. It's incredibly fun, but it's too powerful. A few thoughts:

One, Essence is a bit too meaningless. The fact that it rises with HP Regen means that there's no real reason not to run Regen/Regen/Wild, since Regen infusions also serve as +MP regen. You can basically always have one active in all but the longest fights, and a good Regen can restore about 25% of your Essence every tick. This is a bit of a problem when Essence use also boosts your shield--not only is using expensive attacks constantly totally doable, it's encouraged, and there's no real reason to ever stop. With Fungus, you would become some sort of horrific infinite-MP death train. (At least, I assume you can get AM/Fungus. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Two, Jagged Body probably needs a nerf in general. The Jadir already has very high HP growth, especially with the abundance of Constitution unlocks and the Constitution scaling encouraging you to jack it up abnormally high, so getting a shield rune for free at the start of very nearly every engage in a little too good... Especially since at the start of the game it's about half your health bar. This is a little exaggerated for me (Titanic and it's 320 Block says hello; it's about 40% of my Jagged Body hit bar), but combined with the previous and the typical Jadir's ridiculous Armor score I don't pay attention in most fights until I see my HP actually decrease. That isn't terribly common, especially wrt the previous "always regenerating" thing. I'd suggest making Jagged Body work more like Hate, where its regeneration is negative until it reaches a floor value but it has a number of situational triggers and ways to boost it. Keep Pyroclastic Burst exactly as it is, though, because that skill is incredibly cool.

Three, the special shield bash on the first shield skill is way too strong. Even with an okayish shield (the tier 1 Coral artifact shield) and one point in it, I was regularly hitting for 300 on counterstrikes around the start of the tier 2 dungeons, and sometimes it went up to as much as 600. And you can do this up to three times with Parade maxed. For basically the entire game so far, the Counterstrike status has been a death sentence. (Admittedly, a large part of this, circa end-of-Dreadfell, again lies in the fact I found the Titanic shield. The "deals damage based off of shield Block" skill is not exactly balanced around 320 Block, much less a mage's +Physical modifier. I've hit for 1300 with it more than once.)

Four, Primordial Stone doesn't really need damage, let alone the sheer numbers on it. It's probably my strongest attack (outside of shield skills, and also admittedly because I never leveled Architect's Wrath), and it's also one of the game's best escapes if you have a corridor nearby--up to 8 movement of evasion, 3 turns of complete safety in one direction, and it's also incredibly powerful offensively? Especially since it has ridiculous synergy with Tremor, since I'm guessing the two +50% damage boosts for "in a wall" and "petrified" stack. I'd still value it incredibly highly even without the damage.

Five, the ability to pick up the Staff category from Angolwen kind of breaks the balance on Staves. Without it, Staves are good for boosting your physical elemental modifier, but the low numbers on them weaken your melee capabilities. With it, the only thing stopping you from becoming a complete god of both close and far combat is the required investment into both Heavy Arms and Staff Mastery, because +111 Physical Power and stacking +46% and +57% boosts are terrifying and Short Magewarrior staves also let you keep a shield, and, well, see above on why shields are absurd. There's some opportunity cost, in that the tree gets you kicked out of the anti-magic treehouse and forces you to neglect Symbiosis/Erosion, but I've basically ignored Heavy Arms and I'm still murdering in melee. (Plus, getting kicked out of anti-Magic gives you more reason to get Vile Life!)

Six, Rock Mortar is too good for magic builds. The fact that the cooldown is so ridiculously low means that weenie groups just get totally invalidated, and the fact it's auto-hit and travels instantly and can target behind enemies means it also counters invisibility and stealth, fast movement, and use of shields. It also can't hurt you, which is just getting gratuitous with the whole "can fire it wherever you want" thing. And I haven't even bothered to max it yet! (Or Earthen Gun, for that matter, despite it being my primary attack.)

Other things... I have no real idea what the first part of Smoldering Core actually does. Earth Render gives you a bug if the shield rush bash attempts to trigger at melee range. (The bash doesn't trigger and the game goes on normally otherwise.) The Genesis Plate is incredibly cool but a little too "no duh." (Seriously, every single aspect of it is fantastic and there is no justifiable reason not to max it the moment it becomes available. Should it really be better than every single other armor in the game by so much?) Cry of Eyal just needs everything nerfed. Everything. (Seriously, combining that with a Heroism Infusion on a class that is already God Tank? The game is over the moment I get that fourth Infusion slot; I don't have it already just because Vile Life seemed fun and I'd already optimized enough.) Symbiosis's first three skills are too weak (though Yggdrasil is a fantastic concept and I got a lot of use out of it in the Dark Crypt). Living Mural is a cool concept but it really needs to do more; the Spellpower is okay, but why Defense? And the Essence loss is a problem.

Finally, a question: will Jadir "spells" trigger Meteoric Crash? Because I'm honestly not sure what's more hilariously broken for my prodigies, constantly triggering Meteoric Crash (it's even Fire and Physical!) or Eternal Guard+Spectral Shield+Titanic (it's like a second Jagged Body that I can reactivate every four turns!). Admittedly, neither of these is really a Jadir thing, but they're already incredibly good and they manage to fall right into Jadir's niches.

Despite all of the above, while the numbers are generally too high across the board (except where noted), all of the underlying concepts behind the skills are fantastic and the class is an utter blast to play--probably my favorite class in the game and all the add-ons I've tried, actually, and that's only partially because I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. (I have never had such an easy time with the post-Dreadfall ambush. They barely got into my 1000-point HP bar.) Even if it's never given its well-deserved nerfs, I'll probably still boot it up every now and then once I win with this character.

[rexorcorum]

Ok, folks, with a terrible delay I give you the needed new resource bars:

Essence


Jagged Body


Heat


For download: [https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/861 ... e_bars.zip]here[/url]!

Jadir playerdoll - soon...

[rexorcorum]

Ok, the "soon" was not that soon after all, but still it's better later than never .

Jadir is done as of 1.2.3 state (the new artefact playerdoll images that Amagad is transferring are not included) .

...
______________________________________________
Jadir base ...... Silicine slicers trap .. Genesis Plate

Download the package here.

Cheers!

[NemesisZeru]

I'm super-late to the party, but trying Jadirs now. A question!

Edit: Caught Gray on the IRC and we talked. x3

[grayswandir]

Alright, added all the graphics in. Thanks rex!

[rexorcorum]

Very nice !

So, what's next on the menu - ashas?

[grayswandir]

Yeah, they're about halfway done. You can try them out if you turn debug mode on.

[NemesisZeru]

Small problem with the new Jadir tile.

[rexorcorum]

Looks like somebody (ether me or grayswandir) has forgotten to include the "base_shadow_01.png" file . This should fix the "@" behind.

Edit: Checked and it's my fault, cause I've named the file "base_shadow.png". Doh.

There is also some whitish outline around the jadir and that means I have some cleaning to do. Shame on me!

[rexorcorum]

Ok, fixed .

Grab the base and shadow here. Cheers!

[tilkau]

EDIT: It seems the actual origin of the bug I had written about here is NullTweaks custom respec. Your Elementals addon appears to work okay, weird-wyrmics does appear to cause a crash ('bad parameter') when attempting to start a Thalore Berserker on Arena mode though.