Weird Wyrmics
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Re: Weird Wyrmics
Looks interesting. Gonna splat some yeeks with this, methinks
Ghoul never existed, this never happened!
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anonymous000
- Thalore
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Re: Weird Wyrmics
Played a fire/sand-spec one to lvl10, like it so far. If we are going to remake wyrmic we can use a lot of your ideas. I have not leveled up my character much so I don't know if my arguments are all sound here, but hope this helps
General comments:
1) The class is now stripped of Bellowing Roar & Wing Buffet, while Quake has become the Sand Drake Aura (don't know if the former 2 got similar treatment in other trees). In my opinion, they are wyrmics' signature moves (although the latter 2 are largely useless) and should be shared by all wyrmics. Suggest improving them and putting them into a separate tree.
2) Claws: I think offering synergy is a good direction. I see Fire Claw interacts with Fan the Flames. Although I had not played a ice-spec weird wyrmic, I guess Ice Claw works like the original one and it would offer synergy with Shattering Smash. However, Sand Claw only offer blind and no synergy, I guess it needs work
3) Breaths: Considering breaths being wyrmic's core feature, doing 400 damage at maximum seems not really enough if we are facing bosses. Suggest making it a spikable sustain, should players want their breaths to be more powerful, they can delay spiking it, concentrate their power and make their breath become a line/ball. This would make the breaths more interesting and more useful
4) Tree design: The tree is designed like this: 1 dependent active skill+ its respective sustain, 1 independent active, and 1 passive buff.
-I feel the use of the dependent active highly depends on your sustain so I think they should be merged. This free up one slot and I think we can insert some spells
-As for the passive buff, they are ok-ish but seems a little bit bland, if I were you I would make them have more interaction with the talents in the tree, like making Fan the Flames a sustain/passive, making use of the burn status caused by the Fire talents. Also, I have not leveled up my character much to know whether Sand Aspect scales like other Aspects, but given probably wyrmic deals physical damage more than other elements, I see Sand Aspect will be much more preferable than other Aspects
Tree-specific comment:
Sand: Swallow being the only active attack skill in this tree, is just a stronger bump attack against bosses unless you happen to Swallow an enemy beforehand, the buff from the talent itself is also too small to be valuable. Suggest also make it do something even when it only hits rather than kill
Fire:
- Raging Rush: Don't really see the need to reduce vision radius, it seems also thematically wrong since you are making your weapon on fire, and this should make you more able to see things.
- Fan the Flames: The fire on the ground seems too weak to me, suggest increasing its damage
General comments:
1) The class is now stripped of Bellowing Roar & Wing Buffet, while Quake has become the Sand Drake Aura (don't know if the former 2 got similar treatment in other trees). In my opinion, they are wyrmics' signature moves (although the latter 2 are largely useless) and should be shared by all wyrmics. Suggest improving them and putting them into a separate tree.
2) Claws: I think offering synergy is a good direction. I see Fire Claw interacts with Fan the Flames. Although I had not played a ice-spec weird wyrmic, I guess Ice Claw works like the original one and it would offer synergy with Shattering Smash. However, Sand Claw only offer blind and no synergy, I guess it needs work
3) Breaths: Considering breaths being wyrmic's core feature, doing 400 damage at maximum seems not really enough if we are facing bosses. Suggest making it a spikable sustain, should players want their breaths to be more powerful, they can delay spiking it, concentrate their power and make their breath become a line/ball. This would make the breaths more interesting and more useful
4) Tree design: The tree is designed like this: 1 dependent active skill+ its respective sustain, 1 independent active, and 1 passive buff.
-I feel the use of the dependent active highly depends on your sustain so I think they should be merged. This free up one slot and I think we can insert some spells
-As for the passive buff, they are ok-ish but seems a little bit bland, if I were you I would make them have more interaction with the talents in the tree, like making Fan the Flames a sustain/passive, making use of the burn status caused by the Fire talents. Also, I have not leveled up my character much to know whether Sand Aspect scales like other Aspects, but given probably wyrmic deals physical damage more than other elements, I see Sand Aspect will be much more preferable than other Aspects
Tree-specific comment:
Sand: Swallow being the only active attack skill in this tree, is just a stronger bump attack against bosses unless you happen to Swallow an enemy beforehand, the buff from the talent itself is also too small to be valuable. Suggest also make it do something even when it only hits rather than kill
Fire:
- Raging Rush: Don't really see the need to reduce vision radius, it seems also thematically wrong since you are making your weapon on fire, and this should make you more able to see things.
- Fan the Flames: The fire on the ground seems too weak to me, suggest increasing its damage
Re: Weird Wyrmics
This is a really cool idea. Keep up the good work.
-Swallow should not trigger the healing effect from fungus
-Swallow is strange. You need about 12 points in that tree until it feels like a good pay off. If it fails to kill a target, or misses, your 12 points in that tree did nothing. It is binary in nature.
The buff also feels pretty weak. For 10 points in basically 1 move, that buff should be king. Instead, it is 11-30 str at full stacks? This synergy does nothing for boss fights or single, strong enemies.
For a suggested change, maybe make Appetite proc the extra hit off normal bump attacks, and if that fails to kill, reduce the CD on Swallow? Maybe the buff stacks increase Swallow damage?
-Please remove the terrain deformation from quake. A knockback + damage is a fine move, but also ruining the dungeon and having to spam the move to make it passable again is annoying.
-Burrow feels like a waste, except for that delicious crit chance. Consider changing it to something else.
-Sand Breath does not seem to give stacks of Swallow like it says it should.
Fire tree is next.
-Swallow should not trigger the healing effect from fungus
-Swallow is strange. You need about 12 points in that tree until it feels like a good pay off. If it fails to kill a target, or misses, your 12 points in that tree did nothing. It is binary in nature.
The buff also feels pretty weak. For 10 points in basically 1 move, that buff should be king. Instead, it is 11-30 str at full stacks? This synergy does nothing for boss fights or single, strong enemies.
For a suggested change, maybe make Appetite proc the extra hit off normal bump attacks, and if that fails to kill, reduce the CD on Swallow? Maybe the buff stacks increase Swallow damage?
-Please remove the terrain deformation from quake. A knockback + damage is a fine move, but also ruining the dungeon and having to spam the move to make it passable again is annoying.
-Burrow feels like a waste, except for that delicious crit chance. Consider changing it to something else.
-Sand Breath does not seem to give stacks of Swallow like it says it should.
Fire tree is next.
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anonymous000
- Thalore
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- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:07 am
Re: Weird Wyrmics
Don't know if your statement "changing it to something else" means "changing it to another talent" or "changing the buff to something else". I would agree on the latter but I oppose the former. Burrow is quite a good utility and is very "wyrmic-like" for me, I believe most people would not like to see it gone.finn wrote: -Burrow feels like a waste, except for that delicious crit chance. Consider changing it to something else.
To make it more interesting, would it be better to make it a signature sustain in the Sand tree (which is in line with my suggestion regarding making Fan the Flames a sustain). Remove the crit chance buff (which is covered by the buff from Claws), in its stead having your physical melee attacks pierce and reduce armour and magical shields? I think this buff would be more interesting and it fit the burrow theme better, also works well with the Appetite buff.
Re: Weird Wyrmics
okay made it to the east no deaths.
also I was wrong appetite does work and its been giving me a 60ish percent chance of another bump attack on any hit which makes it comparable to flexible combat and greater weapon mastery which combined with the 700 damage I'm getting from sand breath, phys multiplier, phys pierce, crit chance, phys resistance, and swallows strength boost if it worked makes sand aspect an overwhelmingly good melee boosting tree.
keep quake and burrow quake has really saved me a few times by providing cover and burrow is a very useful utility that works well with quake.
thanks for the hard work grey and seriously may need to balance the aspects against each other more.
note that appetite only works while you have the swallow buff active.
also I was wrong appetite does work and its been giving me a 60ish percent chance of another bump attack on any hit which makes it comparable to flexible combat and greater weapon mastery which combined with the 700 damage I'm getting from sand breath, phys multiplier, phys pierce, crit chance, phys resistance, and swallows strength boost if it worked makes sand aspect an overwhelmingly good melee boosting tree.
keep quake and burrow quake has really saved me a few times by providing cover and burrow is a very useful utility that works well with quake.
thanks for the hard work grey and seriously may need to balance the aspects against each other more.
note that appetite only works while you have the swallow buff active.
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grayswandir
- Uruivellas
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Re: Weird Wyrmics
Yeah, things definitely aren't balanced yet. I'm well aware. 
My current, sorta vague plans:
I think right now I'm leaning towards making a non-elemental tree that has swallow/appetite/wing buffet/bellowing roar. In that case I could keep swallow relatively strong because you wouldn't get a breath/claw attack/whatever out of putting points in it. Only problem is I need to figure out a replacement for sand first. This'll be a good opportunity to make sand more synergistic with blind overall.
I was considering making burrow deal radius 1-2 physical damage whenever you dug through a wall. Thoughts?
When I get around to coding my own version up I think I'll make it ~40 equilibrium sustain that takes additional equilibrium for each wall.
I think I'll make burning rage deal actual burn damage, and convert more fire stuff to burn overall.
I think I'll make the swallow buff just have a flat 20 duration or something. I definitely want it to be more viable with less investment.
Right now physical +damage/resist has a flat 70% modifier compared to the rest. Think that's too high/low?
My current, sorta vague plans:
I think right now I'm leaning towards making a non-elemental tree that has swallow/appetite/wing buffet/bellowing roar. In that case I could keep swallow relatively strong because you wouldn't get a breath/claw attack/whatever out of putting points in it. Only problem is I need to figure out a replacement for sand first. This'll be a good opportunity to make sand more synergistic with blind overall.
I was considering making burrow deal radius 1-2 physical damage whenever you dug through a wall. Thoughts?
When I get around to coding my own version up I think I'll make it ~40 equilibrium sustain that takes additional equilibrium for each wall.
I think I'll make burning rage deal actual burn damage, and convert more fire stuff to burn overall.
I think I'll make the swallow buff just have a flat 20 duration or something. I definitely want it to be more viable with less investment.
Right now physical +damage/resist has a flat 70% modifier compared to the rest. Think that's too high/low?
They probably would work better at T3.Doctornull wrote:The T2 sustains are expensive when you get them. Having 20 Eq sustains as the capstone talents would make more sense to me.
I don't want them to be spammable. I think a better solution is to just add more actives.Doctornull wrote:The T1 actives seem to have long cooldowns. That's depressing when they're all you have besides a bump-attack.
Breaths may need to be damage buffed some. I made the status effects (if they have them) always trigger, so I'm not really sure how to balance damage overall.anonymous000 wrote:3) Breaths: Considering breaths being wyrmic's core feature, doing 400 damage at maximum seems not really enough if we are facing bosses. Suggest making it a spikable sustain, should players want their breaths to be more powerful, they can delay spiking it, concentrate their power and make their breath become a line/ball. This would make the breaths more interesting and more useful
I want to avoid too many spells - I feel like wyrmics should be more of a close-up melee guy. Anything ranged/big aoe should go on one of the general shared-cooldown abilities (except maybe for 1 off talent to help differentiate an element). I would like to clean up the first/second synergy thing in general, but I'm not quite sure about completely getting rid of it.anonymous000 wrote:4) Tree design: The tree is designed like this: 1 dependent active skill+ its respective sustain, 1 independent active, and 1 passive buff.
-I feel the use of the dependent active highly depends on your sustain so I think they should be merged. This free up one slot and I think we can insert some spells
Putting more tree synergies on the fourth talent sounds like a good idea.anonymous000 wrote:-As for the passive buff, they are ok-ish but seems a little bit bland, if I were you I would make them have more interaction with the talents in the tree, like making Fan the Flames a sustain/passive, making use of the burn status caused by the Fire talents.
The idea was that you're in a rage and less able to focus on your surroundings.anonymous000 wrote:- Raging Rush: Don't really see the need to reduce vision radius, it seems also thematically wrong since you are making your weapon on fire, and this should make you more able to see things.
I'll try to fix this by giving the fire tree more burning damage overall first.anonymous000 wrote:- Fan the Flames: The fire on the ground seems too weak to me, suggest increasing its damage
Addons: Arcane Blade Tweaks, Fallen Race, Monk Class, Weapons Pack
Currently working on Elementals. It's a big project, so any help would be appreciated.
Currently working on Elementals. It's a big project, so any help would be appreciated.
Re: Weird Wyrmics
yeah I'm getting 700 damage out of sand breath at talent level 6 and I only have 50ish strength plus can get it up to talent level 7 with a cat point so unless sand breath has a better damage modifier than the other breaths I don't think it needs a damage buff did take a lot of point investment to reach this though.
putting the standard swallow, wing buffet, and bellowing roar into their own tree sounds like a pretty good idea.
would suggest adding different kinds of passives to the tree instead of just leaving it passive-less since thematically dragon powers always having some kind passive component heck could have wing buffet and bellowing roar as the aura and breath of the tree and make it a general draconic combat tree.
or just give the tree self contained passives.
or just shove the whole thing into draconic form and have it give the abilities based on investment in itself with the abilities counting double for them self.
and figuring out non element based passives would be pretty useful for the class if only for things that don't quite match up neatly to an element like this proposed tree, an antimagic aspect, prismatic aspect, or water aspect and already have it happening with draconic form.
also for burrow if you make it the sand tree's sustain that high cost would be difficult to handle and out of place compared to the others. would suggest more of a defense piercing to get through Armour, damage shields, and resistances.
also keep point costs in mind a tree like this on a heavily melee oriented class would draw a lot of points into it leaving less for aspects.
putting the standard swallow, wing buffet, and bellowing roar into their own tree sounds like a pretty good idea.
would suggest adding different kinds of passives to the tree instead of just leaving it passive-less since thematically dragon powers always having some kind passive component heck could have wing buffet and bellowing roar as the aura and breath of the tree and make it a general draconic combat tree.
or just give the tree self contained passives.
or just shove the whole thing into draconic form and have it give the abilities based on investment in itself with the abilities counting double for them self.
and figuring out non element based passives would be pretty useful for the class if only for things that don't quite match up neatly to an element like this proposed tree, an antimagic aspect, prismatic aspect, or water aspect and already have it happening with draconic form.
also for burrow if you make it the sand tree's sustain that high cost would be difficult to handle and out of place compared to the others. would suggest more of a defense piercing to get through Armour, damage shields, and resistances.
also keep point costs in mind a tree like this on a heavily melee oriented class would draw a lot of points into it leaving less for aspects.
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anonymous000
- Thalore
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:07 am
Re: Weird Wyrmics
Agree with astreoth about how Burrow should work. And I think besides blind, the theme of the sand tree can be about terrain manipulation too. Like filling an area with sand to block and suffocate your enemies / pushing sand or other solid terrain toward your enemies / extra damage when you perform melee attack against enemies who are backed to a wall / etc
Re: Weird Wyrmics
Getting a LUA and a free turn when I kill something with Lightning Speed up using Storm Breath.
Re: Weird Wyrmics
Right, so my current main Weird Wyrmic is a mindstar-using Yeek specializing in Fire and Storm aspects - Fire for Raging Rush and Storm for Rapid Strikes. The idea is to make the most of the on-hit damage bonuses and also stack combat/global speed to ridiculous levels with the Yeek 3rd racial.
So far I've noticed that dual-wielding does not go well at all with Fire Claw and Fan the Flames - in general the burning effects seem to do about 10% of what the tooltips claim they would do.
Using Storm Breath with Lightning Speed active fails to extend the evasion effect's duration, or anyway it's not shown as a buff anywhere.
Fire Breathing on a monster pit in Daikara however very satisfyingly boosted my Burning Rage to 20 something turns. At level 4 (from 3/4/1/4 in Fire Aspect and 1 in Draconic Breath), I'm doing about 400 damage with it.
So far I haven't used Jitter much - it was pretty underwhelming when I tried it in Morgol's lair, but maybe it'll be better with higher stats when I can run it together with Focused Fury.
So far I've noticed that dual-wielding does not go well at all with Fire Claw and Fan the Flames - in general the burning effects seem to do about 10% of what the tooltips claim they would do.
Using Storm Breath with Lightning Speed active fails to extend the evasion effect's duration, or anyway it's not shown as a buff anywhere.
Fire Breathing on a monster pit in Daikara however very satisfyingly boosted my Burning Rage to 20 something turns. At level 4 (from 3/4/1/4 in Fire Aspect and 1 in Draconic Breath), I'm doing about 400 damage with it.
So far I haven't used Jitter much - it was pretty underwhelming when I tried it in Morgol's lair, but maybe it'll be better with higher stats when I can run it together with Focused Fury.
Ghoul never existed, this never happened!
Re: Weird Wyrmics
Also got a lua error when killing something with lightning breath while having lightning speed.
storm-aspect.lua 367, 342, engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua: 148, 135, GameTargeting.lua 120 fct, 126 targetMode, 187, engine/KeyBind.lua 229
storm-aspect.lua 367, 342, engine/interface/ActorTalents.lua: 148, 135, GameTargeting.lua 120 fct, 126 targetMode, 187, engine/KeyBind.lua 229
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grayswandir
- Uruivellas
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Re: Weird Wyrmics
Edit: Old Weapons Pack is incompatible, make sure you update that as well if you want to use it.
Alright, new update:
Alright, new update:
- Added a 'Draconic Might' tree, with wing buffet (rework)/bellowing roar/swallow. No passive benefits for these talents, but I tried to make them all worth putting points in.
- Reworked the sand tree quite a bit.
- They no longer get any of the stamina trees.
- Added 2 new locked level 10 trees - 1 for two-handers, 1 for shields.
- Added weird drake enemies - you can turn them on/off in the game options. Not sure how strong they are, but they shouldn't (hopefully) be too overpowered at the very least.
Addons: Arcane Blade Tweaks, Fallen Race, Monk Class, Weapons Pack
Currently working on Elementals. It's a big project, so any help would be appreciated.
Currently working on Elementals. It's a big project, so any help would be appreciated.
Re: Weird Wyrmics
At the moment, fan the flames has cooldown of 6 with-out burning rage and cooldown of 10 with. I think the check is going backwards or something.
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grayswandir
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Re: Weird Wyrmics
Indeed it is. The fix is up.
Also, forgot to mention: The T4 'aspect' talents now make draconic form talents of their elements have shorter cooldowns.
Also, forgot to mention: The T4 'aspect' talents now make draconic form talents of their elements have shorter cooldowns.
Addons: Arcane Blade Tweaks, Fallen Race, Monk Class, Weapons Pack
Currently working on Elementals. It's a big project, so any help would be appreciated.
Currently working on Elementals. It's a big project, so any help would be appreciated.
Re: Weird Wyrmics
Loading entities file from memory /data-grayswandir-weird-wyrmic/npcs/storm-drake.lua
Lua Error: /engine/Entity.lua:949: attempt to index local 'base' (a nil value)
At [C]:-1 __index
At /engine/Entity.lua:949 newEntity
At /data-grayswandir-weird-wyrmic/npcs/storm-drake.lua:106 f
At /engine/Entity.lua:987 loadList
At hooks/grayswandir-weird-wyrmic/entity.lua:5 load_npc
At hooks/grayswandir-weird-wyrmic/entity.lua:11
At [string "return function(l, self, data) local ok=false..."]:1 triggerHook
At /engine/Entity.lua:991 loadList
At /engine/Entity.lua:980 load
At /data/zones/tempest-peak/npcs.lua:23 f
At /engine/Entity.lua:987 loadList
At /engine/Zone.lua:164 loadBaseLists
At /engine/Zone.lua:119 init
At /engine/class.lua:97 new
At /mod/class/Game.lua:844 changeLevelReal
At ...ns/grayswandir-weird-wyrmic/superload/mod/class/Game.lua:23 changeLevelReal
At /mod/class/Game.lua:737 changeLevel
At /data/quests/lightning-overload.lua:88 teleport_urkis
At /data/chats/angolwen-leader.lua:38 action
At /engine/dialogs/Chat.lua:93 use
At /engine/dialogs/Chat.lua:46 fct
At /engine/ui/VariableList.lua:123 onUse
At /engine/ui/VariableList.lua:106
At /engine/KeyBind.lua:229 receiveKey
At /engine/ui/Dialog.lua:566 keyEvent
At /engine/ui/Dialog.lua:339
Lua Error: /engine/Entity.lua:949: attempt to index local 'base' (a nil value)
At [C]:-1 __index
At /engine/Entity.lua:949 newEntity
At /data-grayswandir-weird-wyrmic/npcs/storm-drake.lua:106 f
At /engine/Entity.lua:987 loadList
At hooks/grayswandir-weird-wyrmic/entity.lua:5 load_npc
At hooks/grayswandir-weird-wyrmic/entity.lua:11
At [string "return function(l, self, data) local ok=false..."]:1 triggerHook
At /engine/Entity.lua:991 loadList
At /engine/Entity.lua:980 load
At /data/zones/tempest-peak/npcs.lua:23 f
At /engine/Entity.lua:987 loadList
At /engine/Zone.lua:164 loadBaseLists
At /engine/Zone.lua:119 init
At /engine/class.lua:97 new
At /mod/class/Game.lua:844 changeLevelReal
At ...ns/grayswandir-weird-wyrmic/superload/mod/class/Game.lua:23 changeLevelReal
At /mod/class/Game.lua:737 changeLevel
At /data/quests/lightning-overload.lua:88 teleport_urkis
At /data/chats/angolwen-leader.lua:38 action
At /engine/dialogs/Chat.lua:93 use
At /engine/dialogs/Chat.lua:46 fct
At /engine/ui/VariableList.lua:123 onUse
At /engine/ui/VariableList.lua:106
At /engine/KeyBind.lua:229 receiveKey
At /engine/ui/Dialog.lua:566 keyEvent
At /engine/ui/Dialog.lua:339