Tannen's tower rewrite

[Dracos]

You know, the added lore from Ashes really does add a much nicer touch to this previously almost random 'oh betrays for the evils' wizard on the trips back east.

Just had to yammer Good Going somewhere

[Hogulus]

I wrote it (along with all the Ashes lore, although you can access the Tannen stuff without having Ashes), glad you like it I tried to make it so, although he's definitely a card-carrying mad scientist with an unhealthy disdain for the lives of "undesirables", he has decent reasons for doing what he does, and ultimately has Maj'Eyal's best interests at heart; really, the only problem is that he overestimates how clever he is and how important his experiments are (sure, necromancy-based medical advances would probably pay off in the long run, but Gerlyk's on our doorstep and the player-character he kidnaps needs to deal with it now, and in the meantime his overconfidence is letting the demons play him for a fool). I considered adding a bit where you can decide what to do with his findings (pass them on to Angolwen for the potential good they could do with them, or destroy them to discourage others from following in his footsteps), but a: couldn't think of any way to make the decision "matter" in terms of gameplay, and b: didn't want to create more work for DarkGod

I'm currently trying to muster up the inspiration for my next bit of lore for ToME (the story of a certain young couple, inspired by Tannen's rant and an argument with Lianiil to disregard Angolwen's standards of morality and take the world's fate into their own hands), but if there are any other glaring absences in the game's lore, let me know and I can write something for those too!

[Ragnarok]

I wrote it (along with all the Ashes lore, although you can access the Tannen stuff without having Ashes), glad you like it I tried to make it so, although he's definitely a card-carrying mad scientist with an unhealthy disdain for the lives of "undesirables", he has decent reasons for doing what he does, and ultimately has Maj'Eyal's best interests at heart; really, the only problem is that he overestimates how clever he is and how important his experiments are (sure, necromancy-based medical advances would probably pay off in the long run, but Gerlyk's on our doorstep and the player-character he kidnaps needs to deal with it now, and in the meantime his overconfidence is letting the demons play him for a fool). I considered adding a bit where you can decide what to do with his findings (pass them on to Angolwen for the potential good they could do with them, or destroy them to discourage others from following in his footsteps), but a: couldn't think of any way to make the decision "matter" in terms of gameplay, and b: didn't want to create more work for DarkGod

I'm currently trying to muster up the inspiration for my next bit of lore for ToME (the story of a certain young couple, inspired by Tannen's rant and an argument with Lianiil to disregard Angolwen's standards of morality and take the world's fate into their own hands), but if there are any other glaring absences in the game's lore, let me know and I can write something for those too!

Well what would be cool if all (or as much as possible) lore ties into the game directly via item, event or self reference.

For example the lucky halfing foot while you found all of the lore of the halfing calling for help is extremely cool.

[breadsmith]

I like even more the new twist on the Spellblaze. The Zigur still think it's the mage's fault. The Demon's think it's the Sher'tul. And Shassiy knows it's neither, but isn't telling. Another strike against the Zigur, they can't even get their apocalypse right.

[pheonix89]

I like even more the new twist on the Spellblaze. The Zigur still think it's the mage's fault. The Demon's think it's the Sher'tul. And Shassiy knows it's neither, but isn't telling. Another strike against the Zigur, they can't even get their apocalypse right.

Isn't it kinda sort the mage's fault? They weren't TRYING to do that, but messing with Sher'Tul stuff never ends well. Shassiy nuked a town or two, not continents.

[Red]

I like even more the new twist on the Spellblaze. The Zigur still think it's the mage's fault. The Demon's think it's the Sher'tul. And Shassiy knows it's neither, but isn't telling. Another strike against the Zigur, they can't even get their apocalypse right.

What? No black mark against the Demons for being wrong too?

Or, as phoenix pointed out, the mages for actually causing said destruction? Even if there were a lot more factors, you can't deny the amges - up quite royally.

I only really speak here because I'm a Zigur fan. Say what you will about their extremism, a good number of them are nothing more than people who are sick and tired of beings more powerful than them causing indiscriminate destruction and have stood up to say "No more." Gotta respect that.

[Doctornull]

What? No black mark against the Demons for being wrong too?

Or, as phoenix pointed out, the mages for actually causing said destruction? Even if there were a lot more factors, you can't deny the amges - up quite royally.

I blame the Orcs.

I only really speak here because I'm a Zigur fan. Say what you will about their extremism, a good number of them are nothing more than people who are sick and tired of beings more powerful than them causing indiscriminate destruction and have stood up to say "Now we will cause indiscriminate destruction, we sure are morally superior to the innocent mages we're burning alive, ha ha ha!" Gotta respect that.

fix'd

[Hogulus]

Well, not quite indiscriminate. The Story Of My Salvation says they'll spare small-time magic users, and antimagic players don't want Melinda burned at the stake for something she couldn't control. The Ziguranth just see magic as an inherently corrupting, dangerous force - and to be fair, their experiences with the Spellblaze and the Age of Dusk don't give them much evidence otherwise (and it's not like they're too aware of the efforts of Angolwen's healers, given that they're working in secret). From their standpoint, the best thing you can say about magic is that it's useful for fighting off people who are also using magic (orcs weren't really a threat until they started learning magic), and now they've developed good methods for doing that without using magic themselves, so...

And yeah, Zigur patrols will hunt down magic-using PCs, but honestly, someone with a PC's insatiable lust for arcane violence and shiny magical artifacts probably fits their profile for high-risk targets exactly.

[HousePet]

But other lore also says that lots of innocent people have been killed for being mages when they aren't.

[Hogulus]

Well, yeah. Every movement has its extremists looking for an excuse to hurt people, and sometimes they outnumber or outrank the ones clinging to its actual tenets. Ziguranth CAN be reasonable, and they CAN be a blindly raging mob; it really depends on which individuals you're dealing with. Think of it like Christianity, sometimes you'll get charitable sorts who pray in the privacy of their own homes and treat others as they'd like to be treated, other times you'll get televangelists and the Spanish Inquisition.

[Doctornull]

The Ziguranth just see magic as an inherently corrupting, dangerous force

And they're wrong.

And yeah, Zigur patrols will hunt down magic-using PCs, but honestly, someone with a PC's insatiable lust for arcane violence and shiny magical artifacts probably fits their profile for high-risk targets exactly.

EVERY PC is an insatiable force of violence. Trying to sneak "arcane" in there, like somehow antimagic Oozemancers don't also murder entire continents with equal ease, is ... not really an honest argument.

You're free to like them if you want, but please don't claim some kind of moral superiority for these medieval murderer-hippies.

[jaumito]

Oozemancers, mass murderers? Oozemancers are pro-life actually. Oozes multiply at a very fast rate, so it makes sense to make room for them by exterminating the lesser species that can't keep the pace, if what really counts to you is to make life thrive in Eyal.

[Red]

Note, DoctorNull, I was talking about low level Zigurranth. Or, hell, even people in random towns who got some training from a wandering antimagic person or something. (Just because you don't find any doesn't mean there aren't any.) Normal people who just learned some tricks to help fight back for their friends and family.

The upper echelons of Zigur, while perfectly capable of doing very good deeds, are... Less savory people. *cough genocidal madwoman cough* But that's no reason to speak ill of the good it does do. No one blames Linanlanlanllnalnlan... The head Archmage of Angolwen for what the final bosses in the game do, or for what the Grand Corruptor does in the spellscar. I'm just asking that the hate stay at the crazy people who want to stamp out magic for their own plans, and stay away from the people who just want a way to fight back for themselves and their families.

[Doctornull]

Note, DoctorNull, I was talking about low level Zigurranth.

The ones who wander around the countryside who decided that anyone wearing a Rune is an acceptable target, worthy of murder? Great people, very morally upstanding.

Or, hell, even people in random towns who got some training from a wandering antimagic person or something

That's hilarious. The way you get training from a wandering person is you sacrifice an innocent person to Zigur. Again, very morally upstanding training methods you've got there.

I'm just asking that the hate stay at the crazy people who want to stamp out magic for their own plans, and stay away from the people who just want a way to fight back for themselves and their families.

Those people don't seem to appear in the game, so nobody seems to hate them, so far as I can tell.

Only the crazy murder-hippie versions show up in the game, and guess what? They get hate because they try to murder you.

[Red]

Low-level as in lower echelon.

That being said, is there a piece of lore I've not found which does document initiation into Zigur? That might sway my opinion on them.

Honestly, I just like Zigur more because anyone can be antimagic. (Excepting half of all player characters, but they chose magedom.) (And Undead characters. Sorry guys.) Magic is something you have to be born with (I think. It's not made too clear to me), antimagic you can work at it.

And, in the interests of total fairness, each of us has probably murdered tens or hundreds of thousands of people throughout various playthoughs. So once you get right down to it, we're the number two killer in Eyal, right after the Spellblaze. And if you count player characters as a whole, we are far and away the number one cause of death for anything.