Assassin Lord

[thalen]

Is there really no reward for a shadowblade who sides with the assassin lord? (Searching, I see a Prodigy, but let's face it, I already have a zillion places to spend my skill points, and don't need any more.) I means, sure, I unlock poisons for my future characters, but since I have no interest in playing a rogue, that's not worth anything. Is he really going to find me and ask me to do something, or is that just flavor text? And if so, is it going to be before I die, given that I never seem to last longer than 16th to 18th level? (I've finally given up on roguelike and am playing with the training wheels, but realistically, given how repeatably my character deaths are at that point, I can't imagine lasting much longer than that even with two dozen lives.)

This game seems to have a whole lot of situations where choices seem like they could be balanced choices, a place where you actually have to decide what you want between two alternatives. Instead, most of the time, it simply seems to be a 'you should always choose X because Y gives you nothing/crap/a randart that is 99% likely to be utterly useless/instadeath' situation. I mean, after having played the game out to 20th or so level half a dozen times, I STILL wouldn't understand how the alchemy quests work if I hadn't given up and looked at the wiki. Still unanswered is the question 'who on earth would want one of the final alchemist quest rewards?' (I mean... why PUNISH people for finishing the alchemy quests, by taking away the ability to earn any of the good rewards and giving them something they'll never use?) And then there's the ring of blood (no reward unless you choose to run a fighter in the arena, and no risk or punishment of any kind for doing so). And so on.

I dunno. I like parts of the game, but other parts leave the game designer in me screaming in agony. Fortunately, I guess, my screams are generally abruptly silenced. (Often by things like a greater demon doombringer with 5000+ hit points, who could and did crit for 500+ hit points in one shot, in the Old Forest. When my character was level 13. That one was fun.)

[nate]

As far as I know, that's it for the assassin lord. Got any good ideas for a benefit?

I think most of the stuff works this way. If you have a good idea for a benefit, you should say so, and it might just be included. But outcomes don't always have to be balanced or beneficial. (Have you ever played Dark Souls? I love the way it lets you kill your friends for their pretty armor, and frequently the only consequence is the effect on your conscience. Which is sufficient consequence!)

The nice thing about the alchemy quests is that you don't have to know how they work in detail to take advantage of them. I think they're fine. The final rewards are a little meh, but the elixir of invulnerability is nice (especially for time travelers, I understand). They could stand to be a little better.

That doombringer? That's a good example of a meaningful choice: risk an unfair death by inspecting all of the pedestals, in trade for a chance at loot. It's rarely a good gamble, but it gives some people something fun to do.

[Omega Blue]

For the Brotherhood of Alchemist Quest, you get somewhere between 3-5 potions and a final reward without doing anything extra. I mean, you kill monsters all day long already, right? So you get a bunch of goodies for nothing, and you still complain?

[Hunter]

It wouldn't be a bad idea to expand the storyline for siding with the Assassin Lord after the first time. The reward for saving the merchant is potentially substantial, after all. It's a no-brainer (unless your character is too weak to survive the level) because there's really no advantage to not killing them all. The prodigy is underwhelming, to me, so that's not much of an alternative.

[bahumaut]

That is a good point, in most cases there is no benefit to not saving the guy, so why couldn't there be a way to give a reward for saving him that is equal to the reward of killing him, but still have the ability to get a random artifact. These guys could be smugglers that do the same thing as the merchant later in the game, but perhaps saving the merchant could open up a talent tree like survival. This way if you chose to play the game evil, you wouldn't miss out on a great reward later on in the game. I know right now that the only time I've ever sided with the thieves is for the unlock, and possibly in the future I may do it for the prodigy someday. Just think that when a choice is made that the decision shouldn't be so heavily influenced to make it seem like you are completely missing out on something if you pick one option over the other.

[darkgod]

It should offer *something*. But certainly not the same thing as siding with the merchant.
Symmetry in game design is a good road to blandness

[Mopman43]

While we are on the topic of their being a bonus for one path and basically nothing for the other, could Lianiil PLEASE give you something for taking down Urkis? It's only fair...

[SageAcrin]

If anything were added there, locked Conveyance (1.0)/+0.1 to Conveyance if you have it probably works the best.

It's an interesting parallel to Fungus, and the benefits generally aren't so much better than using Runes for teleports that it would be dominate. I think the classes it would be best for(poor mobility types) are some of the ones with the worst options for category point category unlocks outside of their class, too.

Granted, Probability Travel is pretty great outside of the original classes, but so is Premonition, and you don't even have to unlock to get that. I think it'd be okay.

(Also, no one really uses Probability Travel right now anyways, except as an extreme situation escape, which only takes one level. It's a shame, neat ability.)

[Amphouse]

While we are on the topic of their being a bonus for one path and basically nothing for the other, could Lianiil PLEASE give you something for taking down Urkis? It's only fair...

This. I like Sage's suggestion, but honestly I'd be happy with almost anything; it just makes the mages look so cheap/ unappreciative compared to the Ziguranth.

[Earwicker]

While we are on the topic of their being a bonus for one path and basically nothing for the other, could Lianiil PLEASE give you something for taking down Urkis? It's only fair...

This. I like Sage's suggestion, but honestly I'd be happy with almost anything; it just makes the mages look so cheap/ unappreciative compared to the Ziguranth.

I didn't even notice. After all, it's YOU (and Derth) who begs the mages for help, not the other way around (and they do help you, with free intel and a free ride to Urkis' lair.) Why are players always so ungrateful?

[Theyleon]

It's more that antimagic players get congratulations and one of best defensive generics as a reward, everyone else doesn't even get a thank you.

[Velorien]

I didn't even notice. After all, it's YOU (and Derth) who begs the mages for help, not the other way around (and they do help you, with free intel and a free ride to Urkis' lair.) Why are players always so ungrateful?

"Yes, we have noticed the devastation that happened there. I have sent some friends thence to disperse the cloud, but the true threat lies not there.
He who created this abomination is Urkis. He is a Tempest, a powerful Archmage who channels the storms.
Years ago he went rogue, severing himself from Angolwen. At first he remained quiet, and thus we withheld action, but it seems we have no choice now.
Cleansing the skies will take much time. In the meanwhile, if thou art willing, we can send thee to Urkis' lair to face him.
I will not lie to thee: we can send thee thence, but this could be a death trap, and we have no means for thou to depart his lair, as he lives atop a tall peak in the Daikara mountains."

Translation: "We trained Urkis in devastating destructive powers that have very few peaceful applications and are known for driving their wielders insane. Then he went rogue, but we couldn't be bothered to do anything about it because he wasn't being obviously evil. Now he is, and people are dead, and we've dispatched some guys to get rid of the murder weapon before it kills anyone else. But although we are an entire city of powerful archmages, with a freaking demigod as our leader, and we know the exact location of his lair and have the teleportation magic to get there, we're not planning to do anything about Urkis himself unless some random adventurer volunteers for a suicide mission to clean up our mess.

P.S. If you, unlike us, don't have powerful teleportation magic, well, you're just plain out of luck."

Oh, yes, I think they owe the player a reward.

[darkgod]

If you take it this way Linaniil can just go storm the east and kill the bosses, she certainly is powerful enough. But then, there wouldnt be a game would there be ?

[Velorien]

If you take it this way Linaniil can just go storm the east and kill the bosses, she certainly is powerful enough. But then, there wouldnt be a game would there be ?

But that potential plot hole has an in-game explanation: Linaniil simply doesn't know about the sorcerers, so she wouldn't know that they need taking out. On the other hand, her behavour vis-a-vis Urkis is much harder to explain.

[sofocles]

i agree with darkgod about equal rewards not being necesarry;
On the other side their are games that consistently say if a choice is easy to make (one-sided) then its not a choice. (for example in the new xcom game).

There should also be a random choice thing. Like assasin lord increasing several abilities at random...

Maybe siding with the assasin lord should give you a bigger bonus (like 0,3 mastery) to poisons? on top of everything else?