Building a Tempest

[prsmith]

Help!

In 15b I am trying to build my first Tempest. I must have created 50 characters but have never been able to get past Lvl 4 of the Blighted Ruins

I have been putting what few points I have achieved on level changes into Magic. , Generic points into Skeleton and class into Lightening

I do not do vaults because I get killed immediately - time and time again

I find what is obviously good stuff but I can not ID it to make use of it

I can not see the Traps so they also take a terrible toll on me.

Can someone point me in the right direction so that I can at get out of the Ruins or at least get closer to the Boss?

I am sure I am missing something but I have no idea what I am doing wrong

Thanks

OldMan

[greycat]

Is "stop playing undead" a valid response?

[Sirrocco]

Thing 1: If you are having difficulty getting an undead tempest to work, then learning how to play a non-undead tempest first is probably a plan. Likewise, if you have another class that you are more comfortable with, learning to play an undead non-tempest (at least long enough to get a real grasp of the Blighted Ruins, and learn what you need to take on the big guy at the end) is probably a good idea.

Thing 2: this game is not nearly as grind-heavy as most angband variants, but if you're dying too frequently on the upper levels of the ruins, it may be worth your while to stay in the lower levels for a while to gain a bit of experience. Mind you, this requires that you not find the lower levels as starkly lethal, so YMMV. Basically, if you manage to get to a point where you can consistently survive the first two levels, clear out the first level as best you can, then move to the second level long enough for the first level to refresh, then go back rather than going onward. Picking up the extra gear will help some, and picking up the levels will help more.

Thing 3: are you sure that taking points in skeleton immediately is the way to go? Grabbing better panicbuttons (phase door, say) at the beginning might help you out here.

Warning: I've personally never qualified for an undead character, so my advice should perhaps be taken with a few grains of salt.

[Charlatan73]

I would agree with the guidance in trying another race. You are giving yourself two strikes before you even start with a Skeleton tempest

strike 1) the blighted ruins is a higher difficulty dungeon than the trollshaws for starting out
strike 2) a skeleton isn't the ideal race for a mage

Also - pumping generics into the Skeleton tree is only essentially benefiting your ability to carry more stuff (strength increase) as a tempest. You should be looking to down your opponents with spells. If someone gets into close quarters, you should either try to finish off with a spell, or phase door out of there.

[prsmith]

Hi folks,
Thanks for your replies

I have been playing these games forever - have never done well but I recently got my Zerk up to a high teens level. I was getting very bored with the Trollshaws and other early quests. So when my Tempest was unlocked last week (after saving Bree from the Elementals) I thought I would try something new

Greycat said "Is "stop playing undead" a valid response?"

Not really - I am 69 and looking for something a bit different. Darkgod's superb work on this game ahs opened up new avenues for me - and the indead is one of those avenues

Sirrroco said "Thing 1: If you are having difficulty getting an undead tempest to work, then learning how to play a non-undead tempest first is probably a plan. Likewise, if you have another class that you are more comfortable with, learning to play an undead non-tempest (at least long enough to get a real grasp of the Blighted Ruins, and learn what you need to take on the big guy at the end) is probably a good idea.

That may have to be a part of my solution - I have always been a melee sort of guy and these first steps into the Archmage/Tempest world is proving to be a challenge - like I said, the lack of ability to find traps is hurting me very badly - and until I get up top to get the Orb, I do not know if any of my good finds can offer me some resists.

Sirrocco also said "Thing 2: this game is not nearly as grind-heavy as most angband variants, but if you're dying too frequently on the upper levels of the ruins, it may be worth your while to stay in the lower levels for a while to gain a bit of experience. Mind you, this requires that you not find the lower levels as starkly lethal, so YMMV. Basically, if you manage to get to a point where you can consistently survive the first two levels, clear out the first level as best you can, then move to the second level long enough for the first level to refresh, then go back rather than going onward. Picking up the extra gear will help some, and picking up the levels will help more.

I have cleared these lower level ruins many times - it takes about 1 1/2 to 2 ruin levels to get enough XP to raise one CL. What really is devastating me is hitting a Burning Trap followed my one of the stronger mages found in ruin lvl 3 and 4 - they usually come back to back and zot - I am fried.

Sirroccoi also said "Thing 3: are you sure that taking points in skeleton immediately is the way to go? Grabbing better panic buttons (phase door, say) at the beginning might help you out here."

Charlatan73 said: "I would agree with the guidance in trying another race. You are giving yourself two strikes before you even start with a Skeleton tempest

strike 1) the blighted ruins is a higher difficulty dungeon than the trollshaws for starting out
strike 2) a skeleton isn't the ideal race for a mage

Also - pumping generics into the Skeleton tree is only essentially benefiting your ability to carry more stuff (strength increase) as a tempest. You should be looking to down your opponents with spells. If someone gets into close quarters, you should either try to finish off with a spell, or phase door out of there.

I have zapped through the Trollshaws many times hence I am enjoying the Blighted Ruins - but am just unable to progress

What would be a better race for the Tempest?

the Tempest is born with a Phase Door Rune in place and a Phase Door talent - so the escape mechanisms are there. Increasing Skeleton makes that undead a little stronger by incrementing STR and DEX - I will alter my approach here

Perhaps I should be building the Keen Senses and Illuminate spells - maybe one of them will help me find the traps - there is no Find Traps offered to Tempest at birth

Thanks for your thought - I will keep surging forward. I am sure I am missing something in the early character build of an Undead Tempest

OldMan



Perhaps

[PowerWyrm]

Skeleton is great for mage... no poison, no bleeding, no fear, no breathing. The problem is to survive the first dungeon... Myself I tried a lot of tempests recently, and the only thing I can tell is that they're weaker than an insect until level 4 because you start with only one attack (lightning... nova is totally useless with low chance of stunning and low damage) every 3 turns. At level 4, you get Manathrust and Shock... so things become a LOT easier.
For my latest tempests, I tried Higher as race for the extra regen, stats and low xp requirement.

[prsmith]

Skeleton is great for mage... no poison, no bleeding, no fear, no breathing. The problem is to survive the first dungeon... Myself I tried a lot of tempests recently, and the only thing I can tell is that they're weaker than an insect until level 4 because you start with only one attack (lightning... nova is totally useless with low chance of stunning and low damage) every 3 turns. At level 4, you get Manathrust and Shock... so things become a LOT easier.
For my latest tempests, I tried Higher as race for the extra regen, stats and low xp requirement.

Thanks

So I must look to Lvl 4 - ouch - lots of toing and froing to get XP

What is a Higher?

OldMan

[prsmith]

Just went to LVL 3 and my Char LVL is 2

Old Man

[greycat]

until I get up top to get the Orb, I do not know if any of my good finds can offer me some resists.

You can equip them and then check the character screen. You'll always see your resists there, even if they come from unidentified equipment.

What would be a better race for the Tempest?

Probably the Shalore Elf (the one with +Magic and the racial speed boost talent). Not that I know much about Tempests specifically.

Perhaps I should be building the Keen Senses and Illuminate spells - maybe one of them will help me find the traps - there is no Find Traps offered to Tempest at birth

Nope. No trap detection from either of those. The method I use to avoid dying to traps as a mage-type character in T4 is two-fold:
(1) Don't start out in dark stony dungeons like Kor'Pul and the Blighted Ruins that have big fire/acid/cold/lightning traps. Start out in the Trollshaws and the Old Forest where everything's lit up and there are only poison vines.
(2) Boost HP and elemental resists and HP. Also, get more HP.

I am sure I am missing something in the early character build of an Undead Tempest

You've essentially set yourself up with a Challenge Game. It's a difficult start, because your race and class don't synergize all that well (especially given how tough that starting dungeon is). There's nothing wrong with challenging yourself, but you should expect frustration.

[Final Master]

At lvl 50, this is how I plan to have my Tempests play out.

Class Lvl
Arcane Power 4
Manathrust 3
Manaflow 5
Stone Skin 5
Lightning 5
Chain Lightning 5
Feathwind 5
Thunderstorm 5
Nova 5
Shock 1
Hurricane 1
Tempest 5
Illuminate 3
Blur Sight 5
Phanasmal Shield 1
Invisibility 5

Generic Lvl
Heavy Armor 1
Health 5
Weapon Combat 10
Phase Door 4
Teleport 5
Keen Senses 5
Arcane Eye 5
Vision 5

I like to play hobbit tempests [in homage to a D&D character I had] and to be something different. They have decent stats for a mage, especially in the HD department. I raise stats in this order: mag/con/will/cun so I have plenty of HP to survive. Tempests [outside of maybe geomancers, I haven't played them yet] are the most defense orienteded mancer there is, with stone skin/blursight/feather wind, and mostly beaming spells meaning they can hit what they want when they want - at a good distance and instantly too.

I raise lightning and arcane power as much as possible early, and when shock is available I put my 1 point in there. I then lvl manathrust to lvl 3 so that it beams, and leave it there. So about lvl 7 or so I then start to work on building up featherwind [this requires 1 point in chain lightning first], for the massive ranged defense, and the extra carrying capacity is a bonus. Once we reach lvl 12 - I'm maxing out tempest first and foremost as it increases my damage and helps me take care of those damn storm dragons easier. From there it's pretty much what I need more - am I being hit too often? Then I go blur sight. Not often but too hard? Stone Skin. Need more attack spells? Then I go into more lighting/storm. But eventually I will have a LOT of sustains going, however with raising willpower [and mages having massive mana gains on lvl] it's hardly, if ever, an issue.

With generic talents I work in keen senses and have it sustain until I get a point in teleport. From there, I work down the divination tree, picking up a lvl in arcane eye and vision. As soon as I can afford it, I buy the armor/weapon combat technique tree from last hope and raise health as much as I can and drop a point in heavy armor [if I can yet]. The extra generics go to vision then arcane eye as I go, unless I've found a good staff to attack with [just in case], in which case I raise weapon combat a few points.

I tend to do Old Forest, then amon sul [don't know what it's called now], followed by the shaws, then the maze. I tend to do the cursed and merchant quest after the shaws or right after the maze. Then I do the sandworm lair [depending on how much lightning res and if tempest is maxed out], or go do the bree/urkis quest. From there, the game is pretty straight foreward.

Sorry I'm not going in a more detailed, broken down manner, but this is how I generally build, so I hope it helps.

[Dranwin]

No Hurricane?

It does really drop the Tempest's survivability as the Daze affects are no longer useful but Hurricane is UNBELIEVABLE when killing bosses. It is a verrrrrrry effective skill.

[Frumple]

Hurricane was kinda'... I'unno, it looks like something that would be rocking at level five, when you're like level 30+, but it's not very helpful early on. S'expensive to maintain, and the only talent you have that actually has a solid chance to daze -- and is safe to use -- is shock. Nova can daze, but it's not very likely and you have to get quite close to use it, even when Nova's maxed out.

The hurricane activation itself is pretty sporadic for those first few talent points, too. Mind, when it does activate, whatever it sticks to is deader than a doornail, but it's not terribly reliable and drastically reduces the tempest's ability to keep fighting over an extended period, at least until you can really afford to snap off 100 mana for what amounts to a DoT boost for shock.

The tempest I've been running has a couple of points in hurricane, but generally doesn't use it for the points mentioned above. We'll see how things go when th'fellow can actually afford to set aside what's currently about half 'is mana pool for a shock upgrade.

[Dranwin]

Yea I complete Agree. I ran a few tempests lately who got into the high teens by a few points of hurricane that I can would pop right before a boss fight, make sure i get the proc, then teleport out. By the time I find my way back to the boss hes dead and its loot time!

[paboperfecto]

It took me four tries to get a ghoul tempest out of the undead paths, a few notes:

Put generic into phase door....once you can target it the dungeon becomes pretty darn easy. I believe that was character level 3. Just make sure to always target in LOS so you don't risk the fizzle.

As soon as you step on a powerful fire trap use your shield rune, that will protect you from the follow up damage.

I was able to clear out the two vaults I encountered by clearing out the level, opening, and immediately using phase door (first one at CL 2 was not targeted) and choosing the place of the following encounters.

After defeating the dungeon I was CL 5.