cold drakes

[Lailoken]

So I had finally managed to finish the game back in beta 4 with a fire mage, and decided I would take a break from the game for awhile. I come back to 11b and see a new class: Alchemist. Seems fun (it has been) so I decide to give it a spin. My and my golem buddy are pretty much dominating and everything is going swimmingly until I get to Carn Dum.

These damn cold drakes keep summoning cold drakes, which is really causing me some grief. Even with a crazy tank and some pretty decent aoe every 3 turns, I just cant hold back the tide of drakes. Even if all I meet is a single cold drake off in the distance (out of stone touch range), 3 turns later there are 4 drakes and about 10 hatchlings. Then, because there is no room around the drakes, a wave of drake hatchlings begins to get summoned around me and beyond, making for crazy desperate situations trying to escape back to the stair lest I am overcome.

I don't remember Carn Dum giving my mage this much trouble back in beta 4. Is this whole cold drake summoning a cold drake thing intentional? If so, does anybody have any advice for me?

[Final Master]

It is intentional and also unlimited; however there are some discussions about changing how it works and trying to limit the amount summonable.

Oh ya, and, run. Just run. If you can't kill more than 4 hatchlings a turn or can't pinpoint drakes to kill, then just run away. Get to some stairs and get away. Unless you have 100%+ cold resistance, then you can pretty much stay and smack em forever, but the odds of getting that kind of cold resistance without the boss drop is kind of low.

[edge2054]

Doesn't help your alchemist much but on my Sun Paladin I'm chasing high cold resist before I go in there. Figure Ringil, Old Man Willow's Bark, and any cold resist rings I happen (hopefully) to come across combined with Chant of Resistance should do me pretty good.

[Repton]

There is a bug, in that cold drakes summon multiple hatchlings, and hatchlings come in groups, so the drakes are summoning multiple groups of hatchlings (i.e. LOTS).

But yeah, it's nasty.

Unless you have 100%+ cold resistance, then you can pretty much stay and smack em forever, but the odds of getting that kind of cold resistance without the boss drop is kind of low.

Well, it's achievable with nothing more than a bit of patience, actually. Old Man Willow + Ringil + 2 rings + armour of cold resistance = 100%+. Won't be feasible for all classes, but I did this as a fighter. Unfortunately once the drakes get out of control, they will summon more drakes faster than you can kill them. I killed 100+ drakes and 500+ hatchlings without making any headway at all. And the drakes still hurt you when they get up close, so you can't stay forever without healing..

[Feanor.81]

I would make this kind of summoning a "one time" ability, i.e. a greater drake can only summon a single lesser drake, and a lesser drake can only summon 4 hatchlings once in its lifetime. This way the spawning would still have an exponential trend, but would not be endless like it is now.

[Graziel]

I support Feanor.81 idea : )

[Lailoken]

me too. Or maybe a longish cooldown or something.

By the way. How to get Ringil with a fighter? I had just kind of written it off as more or less impossible. I did manage to get it with a sun Paladin, but he can soften from a distance, and there was definitely some luck involved.

[Feanor.81]

maybe a longish cooldown or something.

"One time" summon could be easily simulated with a 10000 cooldown value, indeed.
The main problem is that, the way things are coded, it is not easy to tweak the cooldown value basing upon the npc type, since the talent is the same used by all other summoning npcs (e.g. bandit lords, some kinds of ghouls and ghosts, etc.).
Probably, there would be the need to introduce a new talent other than T_SUMMON, something like T_UNIQUE_SUMMON, with a corresponding table unique_summon { ... } of its own.

[Final Master]

Ringil with a fighter is actually stupidly easy. Have shield wall at level 5, use shield wall. The level design of the boss level is always the same and very good to melee characters. Always duck into the sidewalls of the hallways as you work your way up/down them and always rest. Shield wall will prevent the crazy amount of freezes and random stuns. The rest is pretty much make sure you're of proper level (you know, 15-20 or so) and have plenty of phase door/teleport, cure poison & cure disease along with plenty of healing and greater healing potions. Once spotted the holder of ringil will find you no matter where you are, so prep a nice hallway that has been cleared previously (perhaps one that has a decent amount of damage traps along the way ) and sit and wait. The boss can be stunned if you absolutely need it but I often don't. Always my worry is a stray animated mummy wrappings more than anything, so always travel slowly, especially down hallways.

[Lailoken]

On the summoning issue: So what exactly does T_SUMMON do? Something like: randomly summons a creature just like me or a few creatures that are weaker but of the same family? Cause if "summon a creature just like me" and "summon a couple weak creatures" were separated out as two separate skills maybe the problem could be solved that way. Also, if all sorts of other creatures use the same skills how come I have only had that issue with Cold Drakes? Maybe just 'cause they take longer to kill? Did any of that make sense?

On getting Ringil with a Fighter: Granted, this was in beta 4, and I definitely wasn't level 20, but I found my fighters (who always maxed shield wall asap) just get ripped to shreds by that mummy once he was in melee range. Interestingly enough, I found I could hack his magic just fine. I usually took a couple levels in health too, so maybe that is why. Also I don't know if this afffects anything but all my fighters that made it that far were skeletons (so I could give myself a nice strength/dex boost as soon as I found some mythril or galvorn gear). I guess I just need to level up a little more before fighting him(it)?

[Feanor.81]

So what exactly does T_SUMMON do? Something like: randomly summons a creature just like me or a few creatures that are weaker but of the same family?

T_SUMMON uses a preset table of creatures, customizable per npc; it's game master's choice to put there creatures identical to the original, lesser ones, or even greater ones.

if all sorts of other creatures use the same skills how come I have only had that issue with Cold Drakes? Maybe just 'cause they take longer to kill?

Indeed. Bandit Lord, too, will spawn an endless number of "normal" bandits; usually you 1-2 hit them, but if you encounter one at very low level it will be a challenging fight.

[greycat]

I had no problems getting Ringil with my last two Fighters. I brought and used free action potions to help against the Freeze spells. Having Track helps a lot. That's a HUGE improvement over older betas.

Cold drakes and fire drakes are just sickeningly overpowered right now. I hope that's fixed in b12.

[darkgod]

Yeah.

But then people complained that drakes where too whimpy !

[Fela]

I've always found drakes to be among the harder opponents with my SB - once they appeared in numbers and kept on my tail.
Stun immunity and fire/cold sheath will do that.

That was before they learned to summon.

[Gwai]

Not to be a materialist or anything, but I have a theory about that. My SB really likes meeting a bandit lord at a low level. It's dangerous as heck, but if you survive ...ooooh the daggers. What if the drakes dropped rings some. Maybe it would be worth it to brave the dangers. As mirrizin notes, by the t ime you hit Carn Dum, most rings aren't a big deal. So, it wouldn't be overpowered if the drakes dropped rings occasionally and it would sweeten the pot.