Help with The Master & beyond

[Zaive]

I really wanted to unlock the cyromancer class, since I really like using the archmage class with a focus on water spells. The only problem is, out of all of the characters I've played, I've only gotten 2 of them to the master and they both died there. Both mages, 1 managed to get him to the point he had to use resurrect with clever use of corrosive acid and phase door (I never actually saw him without the aid of sense). Both of them died to an instant kill rush when I'm pretty sure he had to 'round a corner to reach me.
I'd really like some help with this boss fight, as well as the following dungeons since I don't want to deal with the master any more than I have to, at least until I unlock the cyromancer (and, I guess the pyromancer too).

[darkgod]

Well if he kills you with rush the best (only) way would be to up your constitution more to get more HP.
You can also try to invest into the various damage shield spells, use scrolls to make some too. Scrolls get more efficient with higher magic so with an archmage you are in a good position using them.
You talk about phase door, remember that a high enough phase door spell can be used offensively by teleporting the master to where you want him to be.
You could also try with stone prison-ing him inside an inferno/corrosive cloud.
Don't forget you can cast time prison on yourself too, you can lay down inferno/corrosive cloud, and time prison yourself, making you immune while they deal their damage, if you stay inside the clouds, so will the master.

Well, many possibilities

And yes he is a mean bastard, I am very proud of myself!

PS: the cryo/pyromancers are not guaranteed to unlock at all

[Zaive]

Well, I've pretty much given up on it now. >.>
Too much work.

[Patryn]

Humm... strange. My Archer and Sunpala didn't have this kind of problem with him... Gotta try an Archmage in beta9...
Are you sure you have see invisible? I'm not sure if is is invis, but that may explain why you never see him even though he has to go around a corner before attacking. Maybe just quaffing a potion of see invisible before you encounter him the next time to be on the safe side.

The tactic with both of these chars was waiting around a corner, stun him and give him all you got. If necessary phase door and repeat when the CD are ready.

[Zaive]

....He can turn invisible. Never knew that.

I guess I must be pretty bad at this game... either that or my more promising characters keep dying to bugs >.>

[Patryn]

Heh, i'm not absolutely sure but it makes sense. And helping ppl seems to bring good karma. As I just mentioned I started an Archmage in beta9, went randomly walking around trollshawsa lvl1 (I usually never so the trollshaws at all) and immediatly found the bloody phial. Already jumping with joy since I only found it once before, I went back on my usual track in the old forest and voila - just around the corner the glowing phial awaits my lucky lil' archmage.

Hell, thats gotta be my luckiest game ever. I don't want to image what evilness the RNG plans for me to make THAT up.

Cheers,
Patryn, humbly sacrificing a d20 on the sacred shrine of the mighty RNG.

[Zaive]

Then again, now that I think about it, maybe I was just under-prepared? I usually entered tol falas at around level 10 and wind up at about level 13 by the time I reached the master, and I didn't really have much useful equipment.

[Patryn]

yeah, with lvl13 the master seems *very* luck dependent to beat... I just went with my Archmage down to the master. He was already lvl20 when he reached him allthough I was powerdiving from the beginning. However, I did OldForest (for quick start), Amon'sul (for the staff), the Dragon&Troll cave in the north (for the shoes) and sandworm lair (for the heart).

However, when I reached the Master I decided to experiment a bit (with planned save-scumming) to see why people consider the master so hard. Actually, with the Archmage he indeed seems more difficult than with the Archer or Sunpala since the single-target dmg is lower. But the mage makes that up with plenty powerful utility spells (especially the precise and offensive phase-door).
While experimenting, when I used risky tactics I actually died constantly. Anyway, as soon as I applied a proper tactic he was not easy but absolutely doable (but took me a couple of minor mana+heal potions).

BTW:
The master does not seem to be invisible. Thus I can only explain that he kills you without you seeing him with a sloppy choice of location where the corner he has to come around to hit you is either not enlighted or you are in LoS without having him in sight. Consider: When you "discover" the map with "magic mapping" or the spell "vision", the map is not fully enlighted as it was in ToME 2.x with potions of "Enlightment"! The dots on the floor (ASCII mode) are misleading and only a very slight change in brightness distinguishes between "magic mapped" area and "enlighted" area! I dont know how well visible the difference is in GFX mode, so propably you got fooled to think that you see the relevant corner while it actually lies in darkness and thus you have no warning / rest-interrupt when the Master shows uo and starts to go frenzy on you...

[Shoob]

in graphics mode it actually is pretty clear regarding magic map...

just remember that you need to have a means of sensing monsters and whatnot.

(P.S. Patryn, now you need to do what I did, head directly to tol falas without killing anything (that is, enter it at 0% of lvl 1). From there you can kill stuff, make your way down to the master (no going up stairs until you kill him), kill him, then go back up and survive the ambush . I had a Dunadan fighter do that... it was fun)

[Patryn]

Uhhh... that sounds... deadly.
Okay, with the right class I can imagine killing the master but surviving the ambush with that char? I guess on your way up you're not allowed to go back down, are you?

[edge2054]

I lost a level 20 Archmage today to the Master. Pretty much the same progression you used Patryn (OF for xp, Staff, Heart, Boots, Master).

Anyway he was spawned next to a black z (ghoul king iirc) and I figured my aoes would take the z out while I pounded away on the frozen master.

That first freeze I believe was the last stun I managed to land on him. I did manage to beat the first part of the fight with a potion of healing but the second part of the fight didn't go so well.

I got stunned by something (maybe a freeze or a ghoul), dropped to 9 hit points, tried to teleport into a nearby hall but instead managed to only travel a few squares (and right into melee range of the ghoul king) and ended up losing my blood of life. I figured if I burned hard enough I could clear off the map but instead I got slowed, diseased, and dropped down to a scary hit point total.

My phase door never went off. Guessing being slowed changed the order that I got to go and yup, that was it for poor Radagast the 3rd (4th, 5th, or whatever).

Anyhow in retrospect I should have Time Prisoned The Master and burned that ghoul king down. I guess the moral of the story is don't fight bosses that summon when they're grouped with elite creatures that summon. By the end I think I'd killed two or three vampires, who knows how many ghouls (with aoe), and had the master, two ghoul kings, and another ghoul on the map (one of them had summoned another one.)

[Patryn]

The solution would have been pretty simple for you: phase door the master away, kill the z's quott a manapot to refill your mana and patiently wait until the master walked back through the whole level to you.
Then give the pink V what it deserves.

Basically thats how I did him in the "real" try then. Wait in a tunnel filles with fumes for him to come around the corner, freeze him and fireshock-stun him. If a stun is resisted phase door him away where he needs about 30 rounds to walk back to where I am. The monsters he sometimes summoned when a stun was resisted died while the master was hiking around.

[Zaive]

Well, when my level 11 character is fighting level 18 monsters... I think I'm doing something wrong.

Where can I go to grind up? The old forest only gives 1% exp every 5 monsters, and most other places seem to be dangerous x_x

[edge2054]

Phase Door wouldn't have worked since I maxed Teleport instead.

But yeah, I should have Time Prisoned or Teleported one or the other away off the bat. Thinking I could take them both at the same time was a judgment error that cost me the character. Honestly though, it was my Beta 8 character and I wasn't being very cautious because well... when he died I got to check out Beta 9.

For a mage I'd go get the staff and then do sand worm liar. Then go get the boots. That should put you at high teens to low twenties.

Also, the mobs are going to level with you to an extent so it really doesn't matter when you go as long as you get your kit situated the way you want it.

My level 20 mage I just lost was having to hit insect swarms with a full boat of targeted spells to kill them in Tol Fallos because THEY where level 20.

[Patryn]

@edge: Well, the mob leveling effect is mostly dungeon based and not charlvl based. Therefore you can't really level in Trollshaws with lvl10 anymore.

@Zaive:
Humm, as I already mentioned I usually go to Old Forest with lvl1. When the Old Man Willow is dead I'm usually about lvl10.
Then I go to Amon'sul to get the staff, but there aren't much xp to gain with lvl10+
After I go to Carn'D?m (north of bree in the mointains) to get the boots. It's not really easy doing it that early but if you manage to reach the Master with lvl13, then you shouln't have much trouble there.
When I killed the boss of Carn'D?m I usually already reached lvl18+ without grinding. It's pretty good xp and fun down there.