Mages a bit to hard to unlock?

[Elliott]

Oh, I've got access now. Huh. Well, all good now.

[Feanor.81]

I actually feel the other way. Unlocking classes and races makes them special and feel like you've accomplished something.

I completely agree. I'm well aware of what are the lines of code which would allow me to unlock any race or class, but never changed them, because I want to get them in the intended way (gods punish the cheaters). I still remember the excitement of seeing the message stating I had unlocked the Summoner class

(well, actually it is the only race/class I unlocked so far... still, I won't give up )

[darkgod]

Yeah the thrill of the hunt

Also roguelikes are very punishing games, you play but you barely hope to actually win.
So I want to have more "steps" than just winning, unlocking a class is one of them, I have some other plans too maybe in the next beta

[edge2054]

From a game-play point of view, unlocking is a big no-no for me.
Even from a game making perspective it does not make sense: Why put in the effort to code something if a reasonable amount of your player-base will never get to enjoy playing it?
I don't see any good reason why you want to force people to spend real life time just so they can play -insert whatever class here-. Whatever your personal preference is when it comes to unlocking you should not force other people to do the same.

A lot of highly successful games feature stuff that has to be unlocked. It adds to the replay value of the game.

As a perfect example my wife and I are playing an indie title on the ps3 called Castle Crashers. You start out with four different classes you can play but there's I think 20+ more classes you can unlock. Castle Crashers has been downloaded millions of times and was a highly successful XBOX title before it released last month for the ps3.

The fact that the game has stuff to unlock for a lot of people adds to the game rather then detracts from it. It gives you something to do other then just beat the game.

Now for a game like Tome maybe it's a bit different. Maybe people read more spoilers or whatever and don't want to go through the hassle of unlocking everything. For other people they want to experience the excitement of earning new classes. They want to be able to go through and say, hey, look what I managed to do.

Especially for a roguelike I think this adds to the game. RLs are generally hard. Most people that sit down and play Tome 4 will never beat it. But they may still get a sense of accomplishment when they unlock archmages or reavers or whatever.

And as to the option to simply unlock everything... well it's really not that hard to figure out how to flip the switch and I'm sure someone will eventually write up step by step instructions on how to do it. Personally it took someone with no coding experience twenty minutes to figure it out... what can I say, after losing three promising characters to corrupted save files I was out of patience.

Someday I'll unlock Reavers without cheating.

[marvalis]

well it's really not that hard to figure out how to flip the switch and I'm sure someone will eventually write up step by step instructions on how to do it.

I think I just found the allow_build.profile file :3. I feel like a pro now. A pro at cheating.

[Hedrachi]

Unlocks are fun, they add a lot of replayability. Give you a reason to keep on trying. It's maddeningly effective. I still got a lot to learn about the game, only unlocked summoner so far, on the best character I had. It died about 100 turns later though, from a mino that confused it, my golem, and the escort dude. But I keep on playing.

[Burb Lulls]

Just adding my voice to the 'unlocks are good' side. Although I'm feeling remarkably dirty, just making a bunch of characters to charge to Tol Falas to get whacked by the undead. And I still haven't unlocked either!

[Repton]

Just adding my voice to the 'unlocks are good' side. Although I'm feeling remarkably dirty, just making a bunch of characters to charge to Tol Falas to get whacked by the undead. And I still haven't unlocked either!

To me, plot or quest driven unlocks are great, but anything that encourages mindless grinding is not a good thing...

[Burb Lulls]

That is true. Also, rewarding something that is fundamentally bad for your character - nobody should attempt to fail purposefully to unlock something.

[Fela]

That's one way of looking at it. Another would be to just play the game and not worry about the unlocks.

That way, the undead unlocks are pretty neat, since they made that certain death just a bit less pointless.

[Kemsha]

I personally like to have many options, the more the better

In a game where I die fast, repeatedly and permanently it's easy to get a bit dismayed

So what do I do after my fifth fighter incarnation dies to bill? I try a rogue
That didn't go well? I'll try a mage next

I'll eventually try a fighter again but in a game where you have to do the first dungeons over and over until one character finally survives, I think it's better to have as many ways to do them as possible

So, while I think it's fun to have other rewards besides winning, I prefer to have all classes open from the start

[Fela]

I'll eventually try a fighter again but in a game where you have to do the first dungeons over and over until one character finally survives, I think it's better to have as many ways to do them as possible

The first thing i'd do is move away from that misconception. If you repeatedly find Bill too strong it might be a good idea to do another dungeon first, or do another dungeon halfway, then return, finish Bill then finish the other. For some classes the shade is easy and comes first, for others Bill. Hell, some classes can take on the Master rather early while others require serious leveling.

All of this counts for the basic classes already.

[Kemsha]

The first thing i'd do is move away from that misconception. If you repeatedly find Bill too strong it might be a good idea to do another dungeon first, or do another dungeon halfway, then return, finish Bill then finish the other. For some classes the shade is easy and comes first, for others Bill. Hell, some classes can take on the Master rather early while others require serious leveling.

All of this counts for the basic classes already.

I agree with you but that was just an example. The truth is, no matter what dungeon I try first, chances are that I'll die anyway

I'm not the best player of the world but I really like the game and I am persistant... but I'd be more if I had more classes to try

[Patryn]

@Kemsha: Just a hint: Try going to Old Forest first. You'll lvl there extremely fast. I usually reach lvl 9-10 when I see the Ol'Man, though I pretty much powerdive. And maybe you come out with an additional class to play...

[Hedrachi]

Bill can be rather unfriendly to the extremely new player yeah... simple strategy would be to remember to 'R'est whenever you can, and to use stuns/pinning things. For fighters, this means trying to make sure when you fight Bill you're surrounded by trees on all sides but his, except maybe a way to flee if you can't keep. Alchys, Golem:Taunt can force Bill to attack your meat shield, Golem:Crush can pin him. My most successful alchemist to date was lucky enough to start with a jade gem, turned it into an alchemist gem and used it for nasty fights like Bill. Always remember for alchies that you can target a tree or piece of flat ground to hit your target and not you or your golem.