I made my first trip into the crypt with the screaming lady today. Consequently I lost my first character to the crypt with the screaming lady.
Granted I've never been in that particular dungeon before, but I'm assuming it's the new tactical AI at play that made it nigh impossible to even approach one of the guys at the bottom (other than with that first rush). Every step I took toward one, it would take a step back while the others pounded me. Hiding behind a column and waiting for someone to approach--they're not falling for it.
So that was my level 25 "roguelike" berserker, Ronald Reagan. Don't think I'll be trying that particular area again with a melee class. At least he got the temporal warden unlock, though.
Tactical AI
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Re: Tactical AI
That zone was a death trap before tactical AI, and only elven corrupters and elite warriors gained tactical AI.kazak wrote:I made my first trip into the crypt with the screaming lady today. Consequently I lost my first character to the crypt with the screaming lady.
Granted I've never been in that particular dungeon before, but I'm assuming it's the new tactical AI at play that made it nigh impossible to even approach one of the guys at the bottom (other than with that first rush). Every step I took toward one, it would take a step back while the others pounded me. Hiding behind a column and waiting for someone to approach--they're not falling for it.
So that was my level 25 "roguelike" berserker, Ronald Reagan. Don't think I'll be trying that particular area again with a melee class. At least he got the temporal warden unlock, though.
<DarkGod> lets say it's intended
Re: Tactical AI
The corruptors are the bad bitches, and the AI makes them even badder. The crypt is especially deadly because of the open spaces - they're no room to hide or duck around corners. It's a very very dangerous place. Sometimes when you hear a woman scream... just walk away... ;)
Re: Tactical AI
In beta18 with a luck involved (phase door that very luckily put me next to them quickly), my berzerker managed to actually save the lady from the cultist before that very small 30 turns countdown reaches 0.
But in beta19 in which i have kept a save for this to retry it from time to time, it feels impossible for my new berzerker, that i prepared by getting the anti-magic abilities earlier than in beta18 (i didn't have the anti-magic branch in beta18 for this quest).
By taking my time, all those 4 elf casters with their more than 700 health are not as big as a problem that they seem, i can manage to get them one by one.
Of course taking time mean that i will fail to save the lady. 30 turns is much smaller as a delay than it seems.
But in beta19, the big problem is that those elf casters run away from my character. I don't remember them doing that in beta18 or at least not to this extent.
Even using the Rush ability, they take a blow, but then immediately run away, putting distance.
Additionally, phase door will mean breaking my anti magic abilities, and involve a very lot of luck to get next to the casters, and because the other are running away, they are always increasing their range to you, so even with luck reaching every elf before the 30 turns limits seems impossible.
Not using a phase door means that i'll have to run (as unfortunately Rush has a too big cooldown to be usefull more than once) to the casters.
And because they are running away, it is then impossible to catch all the 4 of them before the 30 turns limit.
The demon that then spawn is much less difficult to kill than those casters, because it does not run away, and a berzerker can make very short work of it in close combat at the kind of level you are when you make that quest.
With the running away behaviour of the elf casters in beta19 i really can't see how it is possible to kill all 4 before the 30 turns limit.
But in beta19 in which i have kept a save for this to retry it from time to time, it feels impossible for my new berzerker, that i prepared by getting the anti-magic abilities earlier than in beta18 (i didn't have the anti-magic branch in beta18 for this quest).
By taking my time, all those 4 elf casters with their more than 700 health are not as big as a problem that they seem, i can manage to get them one by one.
Of course taking time mean that i will fail to save the lady. 30 turns is much smaller as a delay than it seems.
But in beta19, the big problem is that those elf casters run away from my character. I don't remember them doing that in beta18 or at least not to this extent.
Even using the Rush ability, they take a blow, but then immediately run away, putting distance.
Additionally, phase door will mean breaking my anti magic abilities, and involve a very lot of luck to get next to the casters, and because the other are running away, they are always increasing their range to you, so even with luck reaching every elf before the 30 turns limits seems impossible.
Not using a phase door means that i'll have to run (as unfortunately Rush has a too big cooldown to be usefull more than once) to the casters.
And because they are running away, it is then impossible to catch all the 4 of them before the 30 turns limit.
The demon that then spawn is much less difficult to kill than those casters, because it does not run away, and a berzerker can make very short work of it in close combat at the kind of level you are when you make that quest.
With the running away behaviour of the elf casters in beta19 i really can't see how it is possible to kill all 4 before the 30 turns limit.
Re: Tactical AI
It sounds like Rush needs to be changed to perhaps put a short pin/daze on the target? That allows you to close the distance and then at least attempt to put a more permanent status effect on them before they begin retreating.
<DarkGod> lets say it's intended
Re: Tactical AI
I think its cooldown should be reduced too and probably the stamina cost.
After a certain level, there are many, many npcs with ranged attacks, it's really hard for a melee class to deal with them and rush is often the only option (I remember battle call and... nothing else?)
After a certain level, there are many, many npcs with ranged attacks, it's really hard for a melee class to deal with them and rush is often the only option (I remember battle call and... nothing else?)
Re: Tactical AI
I like the daze idea yufra.
As to Kemsha's comment. Rush is the only talented way many classes have of immediately closing the distance. But there's controlled PD runes, boots of rushing, creative use of disengage, blinding speed, speed runes, invis runes, a rod that pins, and new stuff being introduced all the time.
Rush's cooldown now lowers with each talent point invested. I agree the stamina cost is pretty high but I think the cooldown is probably pretty good now (though it could use a short daze so it isn't blown by an immediate disengage or pd). Sure even at 5/5 talent points you can't get by with just Rush but I for one would prefer it that way.
As to Kemsha's comment. Rush is the only talented way many classes have of immediately closing the distance. But there's controlled PD runes, boots of rushing, creative use of disengage, blinding speed, speed runes, invis runes, a rod that pins, and new stuff being introduced all the time.
Rush's cooldown now lowers with each talent point invested. I agree the stamina cost is pretty high but I think the cooldown is probably pretty good now (though it could use a short daze so it isn't blown by an immediate disengage or pd). Sure even at 5/5 talent points you can't get by with just Rush but I for one would prefer it that way.
Re: Tactical AI
Regarding the crypt/cultist quest:
So basically, you also have to factor in the tactical AI loving to run away, the recent ~-25% damage nerf, AND enemies getting infusions/runes (Do the cultist leaders have them? Not sure, but I think I remember one of them running off and healing before I could even get back to it again as a Cursed.)
Any one of those would be grounds for increasing the 30 turn timer IMO, and I'm not sure how viable it was for some classes even before those changes.
So basically, you also have to factor in the tactical AI loving to run away, the recent ~-25% damage nerf, AND enemies getting infusions/runes (Do the cultist leaders have them? Not sure, but I think I remember one of them running off and healing before I could even get back to it again as a Cursed.)
Any one of those would be grounds for increasing the 30 turn timer IMO, and I'm not sure how viable it was for some classes even before those changes.
I don't remember finding even one of those things by the level the quest popped up.Rush is the only talented way many classes have of immediately closing the distance. But there's controlled PD runes, boots of rushing, creative use of disengage, blinding speed, speed runes, invis runes, a rod that pins, and new stuff being introduced all the time.
Re: Tactical AI
Sorry, didn't realize we where talking about that quest in particular.
I agree the timer should probably be higher considering all the changes.
I agree the timer should probably be higher considering all the changes.
Re: Tactical AI
Oh, you probably weren't, I was just hijacking the thread since I saw mention of it. 
Re: Tactical AI
Yeah. Increasing the count might be a reasonable response. I just went in with an absurdly overpowered Cursed - level 27 with gear from having scummed the last 7 levels in the first two floors of the elvish ruins. The floors up to the timed showdown were actually pretty trivial by that point, but I still wasn't able to make all four kills within 30 turns. Honestly, the fact that they step backwards alone seriously cranks up the difficulty for melee classes. Effectively, you need to have a power that both moves and does damage (or stuns/dazes/long slows) or a ranged attack (with either significant damage, stun, daze, or long slow) in order to do any damage to them at all without chasing them around the room and cornering them. The room does not lend itself to cornering, and there isn't nearly enough time to do it properly.