I think it might be better to just open a dual wielding and shield tree, and then close the current 2h maiming one. I don't think selecting a big weapon because it hits harder really fits in with the theme of arcane blades anyway (They get their extra magic from dexterity!)
Perhaps start with a shield and have dual wield unlockable, or just start with both unlocked.
I do think arcane blades need some extra benefits for stuff. They have a lot of penalties, and not really any chance to overcome them with such a wide stat distribution.
If you want to keep them 2h, maybe they should have a dex based sustain that increases magic, instead of just spellpower, or magic based that increases dex/str. Something to help with their stats, like Temporal Warden's two sustains.
"Suicidal" Talents
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Re: "Suicidal" Talents
As I said in another thread, though: If you give them duel wielding talents, they're going to be very close to Temporal Wardens in terms of how they play. Maybe that's all right, but still, it might be worth thinking about how they differ and how to play those differences up so both classes still offer a unique gameplay experience.
Re: "Suicidal" Talents
Well, they'd both be... dual wielders? That weren't rogues.
AB (especially D-AB) is a much higher DPR class, that's tankier and generally has less crowd control options, as well as considerably less mobility.
TW's a powerful hybrid with a focus on mobility and an arguably more viable ranged game (unarguably so in the early game, actually). TW's considerably more versatile, in a general sense.
Now, a melee warden might play fairly similar to an AB, but that's just one way to build a warden. I don't think they'd be stepping too hard on each other's toes, m'self.
AB (especially D-AB) is a much higher DPR class, that's tankier and generally has less crowd control options, as well as considerably less mobility.
TW's a powerful hybrid with a focus on mobility and an arguably more viable ranged game (unarguably so in the early game, actually). TW's considerably more versatile, in a general sense.
Now, a melee warden might play fairly similar to an AB, but that's just one way to build a warden. I don't think they'd be stepping too hard on each other's toes, m'self.
Re: "Suicidal" Talents
The mechanics seem different enough to me. Ranged/hybrid TW is undeniably unique when compared to a hypothetical dual-wielding Arcane Blade. I don't think anyone is bothered by Berserkers and Wyrmics overlapping. If Arcane Blades don't get dual wielding talents, they should at least be motivated to not build for it. Quite frankly, I'm probably just going to hack up a version of Arcane Blade with the appropriate talents and give it a shot.
Sorry about all the parentheses (sometimes I like to clarify things).
Re: "Suicidal" Talents
Wyrmics actually run into a very similar situation. They start with an unlocked two-hander tree, and it contains their only in-class stun resist. Their only sword and shield tree is locked. Other than that, they are stronger with a one-handed and a shield in basically every way. In particular, in the end game they shape up as little walking armored forts with damage return and breath weapons. That's far better suited to a sword and shield than to a two-hander.
This is a problem with hybrids in general, actually (although it may be at least partially in my head). It feels like the two-hander vs the sword and shield is balanced for berserkers vs fighters (with rogues as the dagger side). The martial power source is the only power source in the game that churns out characters who channel all of their damage through their weapon multipliers. All of the other melee classes use at least some nonweapon skill-based damage - they have one or more sustains that add damage based on skill and stat rather than weapon or they have secondary attacks, and so on. The Cursed is the one that's the least like this, and he still has a couple off of the gloom tree. Two-handers beat weapon-and-shield in raw damage, but raw damage just isnt' as important to most character types, and trying to shoehorn them into the two-hander style without making that a fundamental part of their skillset winds up with a set of trees that make it look like the class default is kind of dumb.
Simple Answers:
- slap some multiplier on the enchantments of two-handed weapons, particularly the bonus damage on hit (both ways) and the stats. It's not that an unenchanted greatsword is so lacking compared to an unenchanted longsword and an unenchanted shield, it's that the enchantments on the greatsword can't compete with the stacked enchants on the other two.
- Accept that characters who have strong reasons to go dex will never want to go two-handed, unless you're really ham-fisted about it. sword-and-dagger or dagger-and-dagger will always outperform greatsword in damage, especially once you start stacking on damage bonuses and on-hit effects. Sword-and-shield can compete, but only if you give them reasons to want to crank defense (or to wear a shield specifically).
I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with class balance at the moment. Honestly, I think if you gave wyrmics the tree with Shield Wall in it (You know the one. It's the tree that has all of the little wyrmics outside the window, whimpering and pawing at the glass), they'd probably be a bit overpowered. I just don't like seeing classes where the class as a whole would so obviously be better off with one style being shoved at another by a single add-on tree.
This is a problem with hybrids in general, actually (although it may be at least partially in my head). It feels like the two-hander vs the sword and shield is balanced for berserkers vs fighters (with rogues as the dagger side). The martial power source is the only power source in the game that churns out characters who channel all of their damage through their weapon multipliers. All of the other melee classes use at least some nonweapon skill-based damage - they have one or more sustains that add damage based on skill and stat rather than weapon or they have secondary attacks, and so on. The Cursed is the one that's the least like this, and he still has a couple off of the gloom tree. Two-handers beat weapon-and-shield in raw damage, but raw damage just isnt' as important to most character types, and trying to shoehorn them into the two-hander style without making that a fundamental part of their skillset winds up with a set of trees that make it look like the class default is kind of dumb.
Simple Answers:
- slap some multiplier on the enchantments of two-handed weapons, particularly the bonus damage on hit (both ways) and the stats. It's not that an unenchanted greatsword is so lacking compared to an unenchanted longsword and an unenchanted shield, it's that the enchantments on the greatsword can't compete with the stacked enchants on the other two.
- Accept that characters who have strong reasons to go dex will never want to go two-handed, unless you're really ham-fisted about it. sword-and-dagger or dagger-and-dagger will always outperform greatsword in damage, especially once you start stacking on damage bonuses and on-hit effects. Sword-and-shield can compete, but only if you give them reasons to want to crank defense (or to wear a shield specifically).
I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with class balance at the moment. Honestly, I think if you gave wyrmics the tree with Shield Wall in it (You know the one. It's the tree that has all of the little wyrmics outside the window, whimpering and pawing at the glass), they'd probably be a bit overpowered. I just don't like seeing classes where the class as a whole would so obviously be better off with one style being shoved at another by a single add-on tree.
Re: "Suicidal" Talents
Reducing the damage range on daggers and one-handed weapons would go a long way to improving two-handed weapon viability.
An ego multiplier for them would be nice too as Sirrocco mentioned. Multiply all the ego resolvers when applied to a two-handed weapon by 1.5 or something.
An ego multiplier for them would be nice too as Sirrocco mentioned. Multiply all the ego resolvers when applied to a two-handed weapon by 1.5 or something.
Re: "Suicidal" Talents
I agree that Sword+Shield would fit the Arcane blades much better than the two handed weapons style. It's been putting me off of more than dabbling in them, because Dex loses all its offensive potential (that dagger+shield and riposte would offer) in that tree.
Re: "Suicidal" Talents
I can easily see this to be an addon. This one is very easy to do. I would love a dual wielding or shield ab.