Yeek

[lukep]

Wayist Unity buff/debuff based on how many friendly Yeeks are in LoS? Something like:

Unity of the Way: 50 cooldown, 10 radius
Debuffs all enemies for (5 * total number of friendly Yeeks in sight) damage, accuracy, spellpower, and all saves, and boosts the friendlies by the same amount. Also teleports all friendly yeeks to the same location. Lasts 7 turns.

Could be very powerful combined with Wayist, but not too bad. Could also be locked to the Yeek Wayist, instead of being a character spell.

[tiger_eye]

Hmm, I don't think the mindslayer unlock should be any easier. So...

What if when the yeek wayist dies (hence, no unlock), it releases a furious mental assault against Subject Z, reducing its saves and defense by a reasonable amount.

btw, I did manage to beat Subject Z with a yeek fighter in pre-beta26 (w/ no scumming), and I even think the wayist was able to run away to safety in time to stay alive, so this certainly isn't impossible to do even with a basic melee character.

[edge2054]

Hmm, I don't think the mindslayer unlock should be any easier. So...

What if when the yeek wayist dies (hence, no unlock), it releases a furious mental assault against Subject Z, reducing its saves and defense by a reasonable amount.

I like it.

[madmonk]

This only addresses half the issue (that of getting past Subject Z)...

How do we deal with getting the Wayist to survive?

One thought I had was to allow the Wayist to summon other Wayists (as per the Racial Tree), might this help?

[tiger_eye]

How do we deal with getting the Wayist to survive?

That's for the player to figure out--who says unlocks should be easy ? Once you get Subject Z to attack you and not the yeek wayist, the yeek wayist typically runs away very effectively and survives. So, we could do as both Grey and Gandolfo suggested: have the player (as a yeek) begin closer to the battle when they first enter the zone.

[moth]

Another issue I've had with Yeeks is trying to reach dearth before I'm level 11 and it get's attacked so the arena quest is still available. So in addition to worrying about being able to deal with Subject Z and save the wayist I also have to try doing it at the lowest possible level :<.

[Grey]

That's for the player to figure out--who says unlocks should be easy :wink: ? Once you get Subject Z to attack you and not the yeek wayist, the yeek wayist typically runs away very effectively and survives. So, we could do as both Grey and Gandolfo suggested: have the player (as a yeek) begin closer to the battle when they first enter the zone.

Quite frankly it's necessary unless playing a class with a range 10 attack. Not that melee chars have much chance against him anyway, mind...

I personally find the idea that unlocks should be exceptionally hard distasteful. I'm all for challenge, but not for keeping content locked behind very class-biased challenges.

[madmonk]

I personally find the idea that unlocks should be exceptionally hard distasteful. I'm all for challenge, but not for keeping content locked behind very class-biased challenges.

Just had a thought... Rather than having this situation appear just for Yeeks, why not have it for other players when they venture into and down the Ruins?

[Grey]

Eh? It does appear for them... Saving the Wayist unlocks yeeks for them. And it's a far easier task since you'd normally be much higher level *and* you come in right behind Subject Z, making it easier to get his attention. You also have room to flee if you feel the need.

[madmonk]

Sorry, my bad...

To get the Mindslayer unlock.

So the thought was...

1) Kill Subject Z (unlocks Yeeks)
2) Capture and talk to the Wayist (unlocks Mindslayer)

[Grey]

I think the current set-up is fine, it just needs to be easier on yeeks. Indeed the whole thread is about how hard a start yeeks have, not just with Subject Z (who I swear is fecking impossible with slingers). Although my attempt at an insane archmage yeek last night went well... wasn't careful enough with the second boss though :(

[Grey]

Hrmph, well I finally got to subject Z on Insane Mode with an archmage, and the level 33 yeek wayist died in 4 rounds, and I died in 1 round (Z rushed me and did more damage than my total health in one attack - that's what I get for playing insane mode, I guess!)

[darkgod]

???
The two do not (at least should not) start battling before you arrive.
Well before you see them, so I suppose if you use telepathy or detection it'll trigger

[Grey]

Problem is you see them 10 squares away, and then the yeek dies when you're 6 squares away.

[aztec]

I agree that the battle should start way closer. I've gotten to the area like 4 times as different classes and Subject Z kills the Wayist 2 turns after I see them. I gotten there as an Alchemist, a Reaver, a Fighter, and an Anthoril and they have nothing that can stop him from killing the Wayist. the only way I can think to beat this is to make an Archmage, use Phase Door to teleport on the other side of the wall and leave and continue with the rest of the game until level 20 or so, then return and kill Subject Z. But I've never gotten an Archmage past the first area without permanently dying.