Various things that you can do early in the game to make things... easier on yourself
- For alchemists - and this one works well with your "conga line of the damned" technique for unloking the undead races. Immediately after chargen, kill your golem (with a combination of siccing him on any enemies that show up and blasting him with your staff) leave the initial dungeon, head down to the southern part of the map, and walk back and forth until you find the elven ruins. Go in. If you see a monster of the appropriate type, walk up to them and die. Perhaps you will unlock the undead race that you crave. If you see any other monster (other than a nonmoving nonadjacent melee-only one) leave the dungeon, step away a square, and step back a square (thus resetting the monsters) then go in and try again. If you find yourself alone, resummon your golem. Eventually, you'll wind up with a character who lucked into an entryway that was *actually* empty (as oppose to the potentially lethal "only looked empty" and you'll successfully get off your golem summons - at which point you'll have a level 30-something golem to breeze through the first set of dungeons with - and if he dies, he's the same inflated level when you resummon him. This both means that he's treendously powerful to begin with, and that you don't have to wait for mutual leveling to give him the stats necessary to wear the gear that you want him to wear. Disadvantage is that you're walking around outside with a golemless alchemist of low level - which means that you may trigger (and be forced to abandon) the Trapped quest, and thus may lose out on the merchant. Of course, if that happens, you can just let yourself die to an appropriate undead in Tol Falas, and you're fine. Other disadvantage is that he takes huge amounts of time to heal - frequently measured in days if you don't burn gems on it, and your healign ability doesn't give him back all that large a percentage of his base HP.
- Again for alchemists: it's worth noting that the staff that you get from the shade is nice and all, but it may *still* worth handing it off to the apprentice rather than hoarding staves. 8-10 seems like a lot when you get it, but there are consistently staves for sale in the wizard-town that do double that. Mind you, the spellpower boost is better than you're likely to see for a while, which makes the staff a lot more appealing for anyone who uses actual spells as their primary damage source, but the straight damage is easily topped.
- For newbies in general: take a quick trip to Bree at the very beginning of the game (and hope to avoid the Trapped! quest). Just walking into the scroll and potion shops will do good things for your knowledge of potion and scroll drops, and you can pick up a few pieces of relatively affordable armor, which will help your survivability a fair bit. Grind the first floor of the trollmoors a few times, until about level 3, then grind the second floor a couple of times, and so on. Being overlevelled will make it significantly easier to keep those escort quest alive, and they give permanent advantage. Taking out Bill can be tricky for some character types, and the combination of erratic paths with painfully short sightlines makes it really painfully easy to lose track/control of escort quest characters. Fixed artifact useful for two-handed weapon wielders and alchemists, others may wish to consider going elsewhere for a bit first.
Edit: edited for a greater understanding of Angmar's staff.
things I've noticed
Moderator: Moderator
Re: things I've noticed
More things I've noticed:
- If you care about slime mold potions (most useful for willpower-loving melee classes with durability builds) you want to do your quaffing early. Unless you get really lucky, you're going to have to chug a lot of them, and as you gain levels, they get less and less common in the potion shops. I'd suggest shopscumming for them shortly after you get powerful enough to handle the Trapped! quest. It is not that this is not obnoxious - it is. I wound up spending an hour or two grinding the trolls to get money to buy slime without leveling too far. It's that it's *less* obnoxious than trying to do it when you have plenty of money and the potions show up one at a time.
- The characters you escort in escort quests are leveled based on your level. If you have trouble keeping them alive and really crave those escort rewards, leveling up a bit in non-escort dungeons will make things a *lot* easier - you'll be stronger, which helps, but they'll be stronger, which helps more.
Anyone else have any similar random tips?
- If you care about slime mold potions (most useful for willpower-loving melee classes with durability builds) you want to do your quaffing early. Unless you get really lucky, you're going to have to chug a lot of them, and as you gain levels, they get less and less common in the potion shops. I'd suggest shopscumming for them shortly after you get powerful enough to handle the Trapped! quest. It is not that this is not obnoxious - it is. I wound up spending an hour or two grinding the trolls to get money to buy slime without leveling too far. It's that it's *less* obnoxious than trying to do it when you have plenty of money and the potions show up one at a time.
- The characters you escort in escort quests are leveled based on your level. If you have trouble keeping them alive and really crave those escort rewards, leveling up a bit in non-escort dungeons will make things a *lot* easier - you'll be stronger, which helps, but they'll be stronger, which helps more.
Anyone else have any similar random tips?
Last edited by Sirrocco on Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: things I've noticed
Tips, okay. Here's an example recipe for mage-in-the-West, if having trouble deciding on an order of things ...
MAG 3, Flame 1, Lightning 1, Sense 1
You have two attacks per three turns, use Flame first on trolls and such to get the most benefit from it. A bit of Sense will help if there's an early escort quest - think about each move, might succeed.
Down through Trollshaws, clearing quite fully to get the right level, but no need to revisit levels.
CL 2 ... MAG 3, Flame 1, P/D 1
Starting to work on Phase Door (a) for Bill use it as disengagement, and (b) the Lost Merchant
CL 3 ... MAG 3, Lightning 1, P/D 1
CL 4 ... MAG 2 (hit max), WIL 1, Manathrust 1, Identify 1
Now have three attacks. The ID is handy but is mainly as a step towards Vision.
CL 5 ... MAG 1, WIL 2, Flame 1, Lightning 1
(Killed Bill)
CL 6 ... MAG 2, WIL 1, Manathrust 1, P/D 1
Out of Trollshaws the long way, to get this extra CL and to avoid being tempted into an early spend.
Rearrange hotkeys - my preference is battle spells on Page 1, sustained effects and less-used on Page 2
I like to leave Amon Sul and if possible the Lost Merchant for a while - annoying to miss out on the BM - so now sneak across to Bree, fingers crossed - and then work through the Old Forest. Most dungeons will be done from beginning to end in one go (Tol Falas usually not), partly just because one can and partly because it feels 'proper'.
Will mostly turn away from MAG a while, work on CON with a bit more WIL and some STR. So, into the OF ...
CL 7 ... CON 3, Manathrust 1, P/D 1
CL 8 ... MAG 1, CON 2, Manathrust 1, Vision 1
Vision a big help planning ahead if escort duties in Old Forest - can work out where to stand and fight a while, and where to block the suicidal idiot while resting. Once got caught between Old Man Willow and a manathrusting escort - oh cheers pal, that was close.
CL 9 ... WIL 1, CON 2, Chain Lightning 1 (generic point set aside for Health)
Hitpoints are what keep you alive, always been the case - so will get Combat from the shop and nudge Health whenever possible - also a point in Heavy Armor (want Stability). T4 mages are triply powerful, can end up not a glass cannon but a teflon-coated cannon with reasonable melee for mana-saving coups de grâce.
With each of the main attacks at Level 4, time to start working on other talents - e.g. Chain Lightning is a start on crowd control but also a step towards a point or two in Feather Wind, which gives a big boost to carrying capacity. Pyromancers don't get that and the effect is very noticeable.
CL 10 (now in OF 6) ... MAG 1, CON 2, Feather Wind 1, Flameshock 1, unlock Meta category
Flameshock a step towards Fireflash. Should maybe have arranged to get that before meeting Old Man Willow because needing LoS made it a tough battle, frozen twice and could quite easily have been killed. Main target in Meta is Spell Shaping - when need arises, being able to dump a Level 5 Fireflash on your own head comes in very useful later on - and is great fun.
Teleport to Angolwen. Back at the top of OF, nip to Bree and then set out for Minas Tirith, triggering the Lost Merchant en route. Because nice and strong, can trigger all the summoning traps to get money and expensive daggers. Done, was able to afford something nice. Mana still tight - it always will be really - so turn off Feather Wind until needed for loot.
Amon Sul, dropping through - aims simply "kill boss, get staff".
CL 11 ... CON 3 (now 23, first magic number), Fireflash 1, Vision 1
Vision useful now, later try and keep Vision <= Sense to avoid a costly blunder.
Recall to Angolwen, then go to MT for Combat training, use the stored generic point for Health 1. Had a Lost Warrior offer me Combat, but don't use points on something you can buy (also is at 1.00 instead of 0.70) - chose STR 2 over Weapon Combat 1 because though generic points feel sparse now, they get a little redundant later on for a mage.
Now to the Maze - aims money and daggers (i.e. more money), a couple of levels, and the Minotaur's fancy hat. Back to MAG and WIL now for a while, am carrying enough and reached the first Health boost. Drop down, except P/D to visit most 'dagger-bearers' and fry them.
CL 12 ... MAG 3, Sense 1, Disperse Magic 1
Disperse Magic a step to Spell Shaping - had always ignored this itself but lately been raising it to the targettable level, is useful against various swirly folk when cheaper on mana to turn their shields off rather than drain them.
CL 13 ... MAG 3, Spell Shaping 1, Vision 1
Really there's Spell Shaping "on" which costs 5 talent points - not a great help to kill yourself only 20, 40, 60 or 80% of the time ! ... but at present the game tries to kill you with a targetting glitch, might as well have a chance of thumbing your nose at its wickedness.
Boss dead, hat retrieved, out. Not ready to wear it yet, let's sell/buy and go visit the Sandworms ...
CL 14 ... MAG 3, Spell Shaping 1, Sense 1
CL 15 killing the Queen ... MAG 1 (now max again), WIL 2, Spell Shaping 2
Munch, munch ... WIL 3, Spell Shaping 1 (it's fireworks time
Save the generic point for Heavy Armor - not enough STR for the hat yet, will only get the skill when it becomes useful. One try at Angolwen - no, disturbed, so out the hard way. Minas Tirith selling and shopping. Off to Carn Dum ...
CL 16 ... MAG 2, STR 1, Fireflash 1, Vision 1
CL 17 ... MAG 1, WIL 1, STR 1, Fireflash 1, Sense 1
Boss dead, teleport to Angolwen and then wander down the coast to Tol Falas ...
CL 18 ... MAG 2, WIL 1, Illuminate 1 (save another generic point for Health 2)
Have picked up chant and hymn, so Illuminate as a step to Blur Sight - want to max out my Visual Entertainment Factor, show those half-assed corruptors and sun paladins just what true swirliness looks like.
CL 19 ... MAG 1, CON 2 (wanting Health 2 before Moria and the East), Blur Sight 1, Weapon Combat 1
If you can get to dishing out 100-200 in melee, helps out of some tight spots, and in general to save on mana. Only ghouls and such though - overdo melee with tough orcs in the prides (especially the LSD pits) and it's game suddenly over.
CL 20 ... MAG 1, CON 2, Fireflash 2 (mwuha-ha)
Topped the boss, go through motions of heading towards Angolwen and instead get minced. Did beat the ambush once, but that was with a far more levelled mage who had Stonewall and was able to wield the groovy staff - was fireflash, P/D to LoS of least archers, stonewall (drink, drink etc), fireflash and P/D - then a race against time, mainly to kill the archers speedily or avoid their line of fire. Surely no way you could guarantee it though - big bad only has to pick the right talent at Turn 1 and it would arrive at the normal end.
Time to finally tackle the Bree plotline - they must be wondering where I am. Done. Ooh, almost forgot - Health 1
Return to Tol Falas for the vaults, it often has the ones with a load of good stuff at the far end - but inevitably a load of levelled baddies also, must accept going up a level or two ...
CL 21 ... MAG 2, WIL 1, Blur Sight 1 (saving again for Health, have a few Con-boosting items to swop in)
CL 22 ... MAG 1, WIL 2, Illuminate 1, Health 1 (now at 3, needed a temp boost to CON 41)
Angolwen, Minas Tirith, off to Moria ...
CL 23 ... MAG 2, CON 1, Stone Skin 1, Displacement Shield 1 (heading towards Probability Travel)
CL 24 with Golbug ... MAG 1, WIL 1, CON 1, Dig 1, Health 1 (so the notes say, must've really strained to CON 50)
Dig is ever useful for customized orifice-making anyway, and we're heading towards Stone Wall
CL 25 coming up the normal way ... MAG 1, WIL 2, Strike 1, Stonewall 1 (aiming for 5 here pre-wizards)
Final shopping, grab stuff stored (where there's a will there's a way) for The East, and ... death or glory.
MAG 3, Flame 1, Lightning 1, Sense 1
You have two attacks per three turns, use Flame first on trolls and such to get the most benefit from it. A bit of Sense will help if there's an early escort quest - think about each move, might succeed.
Down through Trollshaws, clearing quite fully to get the right level, but no need to revisit levels.
CL 2 ... MAG 3, Flame 1, P/D 1
Starting to work on Phase Door (a) for Bill use it as disengagement, and (b) the Lost Merchant
CL 3 ... MAG 3, Lightning 1, P/D 1
CL 4 ... MAG 2 (hit max), WIL 1, Manathrust 1, Identify 1
Now have three attacks. The ID is handy but is mainly as a step towards Vision.
CL 5 ... MAG 1, WIL 2, Flame 1, Lightning 1
(Killed Bill)
CL 6 ... MAG 2, WIL 1, Manathrust 1, P/D 1
Out of Trollshaws the long way, to get this extra CL and to avoid being tempted into an early spend.
Rearrange hotkeys - my preference is battle spells on Page 1, sustained effects and less-used on Page 2
I like to leave Amon Sul and if possible the Lost Merchant for a while - annoying to miss out on the BM - so now sneak across to Bree, fingers crossed - and then work through the Old Forest. Most dungeons will be done from beginning to end in one go (Tol Falas usually not), partly just because one can and partly because it feels 'proper'.
Will mostly turn away from MAG a while, work on CON with a bit more WIL and some STR. So, into the OF ...
CL 7 ... CON 3, Manathrust 1, P/D 1
CL 8 ... MAG 1, CON 2, Manathrust 1, Vision 1
Vision a big help planning ahead if escort duties in Old Forest - can work out where to stand and fight a while, and where to block the suicidal idiot while resting. Once got caught between Old Man Willow and a manathrusting escort - oh cheers pal, that was close.
CL 9 ... WIL 1, CON 2, Chain Lightning 1 (generic point set aside for Health)
Hitpoints are what keep you alive, always been the case - so will get Combat from the shop and nudge Health whenever possible - also a point in Heavy Armor (want Stability). T4 mages are triply powerful, can end up not a glass cannon but a teflon-coated cannon with reasonable melee for mana-saving coups de grâce.
With each of the main attacks at Level 4, time to start working on other talents - e.g. Chain Lightning is a start on crowd control but also a step towards a point or two in Feather Wind, which gives a big boost to carrying capacity. Pyromancers don't get that and the effect is very noticeable.
CL 10 (now in OF 6) ... MAG 1, CON 2, Feather Wind 1, Flameshock 1, unlock Meta category
Flameshock a step towards Fireflash. Should maybe have arranged to get that before meeting Old Man Willow because needing LoS made it a tough battle, frozen twice and could quite easily have been killed. Main target in Meta is Spell Shaping - when need arises, being able to dump a Level 5 Fireflash on your own head comes in very useful later on - and is great fun.
Teleport to Angolwen. Back at the top of OF, nip to Bree and then set out for Minas Tirith, triggering the Lost Merchant en route. Because nice and strong, can trigger all the summoning traps to get money and expensive daggers. Done, was able to afford something nice. Mana still tight - it always will be really - so turn off Feather Wind until needed for loot.
Amon Sul, dropping through - aims simply "kill boss, get staff".
CL 11 ... CON 3 (now 23, first magic number), Fireflash 1, Vision 1
Vision useful now, later try and keep Vision <= Sense to avoid a costly blunder.
Recall to Angolwen, then go to MT for Combat training, use the stored generic point for Health 1. Had a Lost Warrior offer me Combat, but don't use points on something you can buy (also is at 1.00 instead of 0.70) - chose STR 2 over Weapon Combat 1 because though generic points feel sparse now, they get a little redundant later on for a mage.
Now to the Maze - aims money and daggers (i.e. more money), a couple of levels, and the Minotaur's fancy hat. Back to MAG and WIL now for a while, am carrying enough and reached the first Health boost. Drop down, except P/D to visit most 'dagger-bearers' and fry them.
CL 12 ... MAG 3, Sense 1, Disperse Magic 1
Disperse Magic a step to Spell Shaping - had always ignored this itself but lately been raising it to the targettable level, is useful against various swirly folk when cheaper on mana to turn their shields off rather than drain them.
CL 13 ... MAG 3, Spell Shaping 1, Vision 1
Really there's Spell Shaping "on" which costs 5 talent points - not a great help to kill yourself only 20, 40, 60 or 80% of the time ! ... but at present the game tries to kill you with a targetting glitch, might as well have a chance of thumbing your nose at its wickedness.
Boss dead, hat retrieved, out. Not ready to wear it yet, let's sell/buy and go visit the Sandworms ...
CL 14 ... MAG 3, Spell Shaping 1, Sense 1
CL 15 killing the Queen ... MAG 1 (now max again), WIL 2, Spell Shaping 2
Munch, munch ... WIL 3, Spell Shaping 1 (it's fireworks time
Save the generic point for Heavy Armor - not enough STR for the hat yet, will only get the skill when it becomes useful. One try at Angolwen - no, disturbed, so out the hard way. Minas Tirith selling and shopping. Off to Carn Dum ...
CL 16 ... MAG 2, STR 1, Fireflash 1, Vision 1
CL 17 ... MAG 1, WIL 1, STR 1, Fireflash 1, Sense 1
Boss dead, teleport to Angolwen and then wander down the coast to Tol Falas ...
CL 18 ... MAG 2, WIL 1, Illuminate 1 (save another generic point for Health 2)
Have picked up chant and hymn, so Illuminate as a step to Blur Sight - want to max out my Visual Entertainment Factor, show those half-assed corruptors and sun paladins just what true swirliness looks like.
CL 19 ... MAG 1, CON 2 (wanting Health 2 before Moria and the East), Blur Sight 1, Weapon Combat 1
If you can get to dishing out 100-200 in melee, helps out of some tight spots, and in general to save on mana. Only ghouls and such though - overdo melee with tough orcs in the prides (especially the LSD pits) and it's game suddenly over.
CL 20 ... MAG 1, CON 2, Fireflash 2 (mwuha-ha)
Topped the boss, go through motions of heading towards Angolwen and instead get minced. Did beat the ambush once, but that was with a far more levelled mage who had Stonewall and was able to wield the groovy staff - was fireflash, P/D to LoS of least archers, stonewall (drink, drink etc), fireflash and P/D - then a race against time, mainly to kill the archers speedily or avoid their line of fire. Surely no way you could guarantee it though - big bad only has to pick the right talent at Turn 1 and it would arrive at the normal end.
Time to finally tackle the Bree plotline - they must be wondering where I am. Done. Ooh, almost forgot - Health 1
Return to Tol Falas for the vaults, it often has the ones with a load of good stuff at the far end - but inevitably a load of levelled baddies also, must accept going up a level or two ...
CL 21 ... MAG 2, WIL 1, Blur Sight 1 (saving again for Health, have a few Con-boosting items to swop in)
CL 22 ... MAG 1, WIL 2, Illuminate 1, Health 1 (now at 3, needed a temp boost to CON 41)
Angolwen, Minas Tirith, off to Moria ...
CL 23 ... MAG 2, CON 1, Stone Skin 1, Displacement Shield 1 (heading towards Probability Travel)
CL 24 with Golbug ... MAG 1, WIL 1, CON 1, Dig 1, Health 1 (so the notes say, must've really strained to CON 50)
Dig is ever useful for customized orifice-making anyway, and we're heading towards Stone Wall
CL 25 coming up the normal way ... MAG 1, WIL 2, Strike 1, Stonewall 1 (aiming for 5 here pre-wizards)
Final shopping, grab stuff stored (where there's a will there's a way) for The East, and ... death or glory.
Re: things I've noticed
Very interesting progression Overtrix. I may have to try that out. First questions is, what race is that for? You mention at certain times about maxxing certrain stats, which would be different with different races. Secondly, you don't go with arcane power. That is one of the first things I level up. I figure it is cheaper to max that than put points in things like flame and lightning. I realize sustaining it can be burdonsome sometimes, but with practice you get used to the lower mana. Of course, I should make notice that I've never made it to the east or to level 25.
Re: things I've noticed
Skilling Arcane Power is up your choice. Usually at high level, the spellpower boost is ridiculously low compared to your spellpower, so it can appear as a waste of skill points.
Re: things I've noticed
Some other tips from my experience with mages:
- always max MAG
- boost WIL with the remaining points until you reach 25 (for sustained talents), then put all remaining points in CON until you reach 59 (Health at 5/5), then boost WIL again (for more sustained talents)
- skill Feather Wind: extra carrying capacity, protection against ranged attacks, ignore traps
- always max MAG
- boost WIL with the remaining points until you reach 25 (for sustained talents), then put all remaining points in CON until you reach 59 (Health at 5/5), then boost WIL again (for more sustained talents)
- skill Feather Wind: extra carrying capacity, protection against ranged attacks, ignore traps
Re: things I've noticed
I do like the way that mages in T4 are invited to bash stuff on the head now and again, it's more a Gandalfy way to go about the business than in T2 and helps a lot with managing mana - granted, it's also a good way to find your fatal mistake. Scoosh the pyromancer was determined to stick with Glamdring after finding it, but on the home stretch he found a perfick staff (something like 40 spellpower and +38% fire) so after seeing what that did for his various entertaining ways of burning baddies, he buckled - bad Scoosh
Justice was done when he thought Aeryn was far enough away to finish the day with his favourite spell, launched it - the ball made its way about two grids at a time across the room, while she walked towards the big scoosh zone. No Aeryn no, here I'll PD you away - fizzle - aargh. So then she was a bit disgruntled, had to put her in prison to get out of there. No forgiveness of course, there was need for a murder back at the Sunwall, sad really but that's what comes from holding a grudge.
Justice was done when he thought Aeryn was far enough away to finish the day with his favourite spell, launched it - the ball made its way about two grids at a time across the room, while she walked towards the big scoosh zone. No Aeryn no, here I'll PD you away - fizzle - aargh. So then she was a bit disgruntled, had to put her in prison to get out of there. No forgiveness of course, there was need for a murder back at the Sunwall, sad really but that's what comes from holding a grudge.