Reavers

[marvalis]

Hi,

I didn't see a reavers thread so I might as well start it. One reason for this might be that its not so easy to unlock them, so most people will never play them. Just to be honest: I edited the source code to unlock them for myself.

That being said, I think reavers hard to play (without abusing stairs or other scummy tactics). Right now I have to play them like mages with only one spell. I can see how their melee attacks might become powerful at higher levels, but getting there is hard. Besides having only one good ranged spell, and low melee damage at the start, you have no way to disable opponents (stun please?) and no way to heal. You only get one beam spell every 3 turns (~100 dmg, not bad) and you have to sacrifice 20% of your health every few spells. On top of that, there are no utility spells like vision or detect.

I got one to level 12 now, but he died by loosing a turn because he ran into a wall instead of going the stairs up.

The description of death curse seems buggy. The resistances decrease with magic level, what resistances? Seems like the description was copied from curse of vulnerability. What is also lacking in the description, is the duration of the spell. I wonder what daze does? Stuff like daze/stun/freeze/blind need a decent description so players know exactly what they do.

Code: Select all

  [Tome 4.00 @ www.te4.org Character Dump]

Sex              : Male         STR:  22
Race             : Bree-man     DEX:  16
Class            : Reaver       MAG:  37
Level            : 12           WIL:  10
Exp              : 55%          CUN:  10
Gold             : 54.45        CON:  10

Attack(Main Hand):  15          Life             :     -20/288  Encumbrance      : 36.9/79
Damage(Main Hand):  22                                          Difficulty       : Normal
APR   (Main Hand):   3          
Crit  (Main Hand):   4%         
Crit  (Main Hand):   4%         
Crit  (Main Hand):   4%         Vim              :     22/144
Speed (Main Hand): 1.00         

Attack (Off Hand):  15
Damage (Off Hand):  11
APR    (Off Hand):   3
Crit   (Off Hand):   4%
Speed  (Off Hand): 1.00

Fatigue          : 26%          Spellpower       : 37
Armor            : 12.3         Spell Crit       : 1%
Defense          : 5.1          Spell Speed      : 1
Ranged Defense   : 5.1          

All damage       : 0%

Physical Save    : 8
Spell Save       : 11.75
Mental Save      : 5


Number of NPC killed: 262
Most killed NPC: cold drake hatchling (59)

  [Talents Chart]

 - Technique / Combat training        (mastery 1.30)
    Heavy Armour Training (generic)   1/5
    Massive Armour Training (generic) 1/5
    Health (generic)                  0/5
    Weapon Combat (generic)           1/10
    Sword Mastery (generic)           0/10
    Axe Mastery (generic)             2/10
    Mace Mastery (generic)            0/10
    Knife Mastery (generic)           0/10
 - Corruption / Sanguisuge            (mastery 1.30)
    Blood Sacrifice (generic)         5/5
    Drain (generic)                   1/5
    Absorb Life (generic)             1/5
    Life Tap (generic)                1/5
 - Corruption / Bone                  (mastery 1.30)
    Bone Spear (class)                5/5
    Bone Grab (class)                 0/5
    Bone Nova (class)                 0/5
    Bone Shield (class)               0/5
 - Corruption / Curses                (mastery 1.30)
    Curse of Defenselessness (class)  1/5
    Curse of Impotence (class)        1/5
    Curse of Death (class)            5/5
    Curse of Vulnerability (class)    0/5
 - Corruption / Plage                 (mastery 1.30)
    Virulent Disease (class)          0/5
    Cyst Burst (class)                0/5
    Catalepsy (class)                 0/5
    Epidemic (class)                  0/5
 - Corruption / Scourge               (mastery 1.30)
    Rend (class)                      1/5
    Ruin (class)                      1/5
    Acid Strike (class)               1/5
    Dark Surprise (class)             1/5
 - Corruption / Reaving combat        (mastery 1.30)
    Corrupted Strength (class)        1/5
    Bloodlust (class)                 0/5
    Carrier (class)                   0/5
    Acid Blood (class)                0/5

  [Current Effects]


  [Completed Quests]

 -- Escort: repented thief (level 2 of Carn D?m)
Escort the repented thief to the recall portal on level 2 of Carn D?m.
 -- Escort: lost warrior (level 6 of Carn D?m)
Escort the lost warrior to the recall portal on level 6 of Carn D?m.

  [Active Quests]

 -- Of trolls and damp caves
Explore the caves below the tower of Amon S?l and the trollshaws in search of treasure and glory!

   * You must explore Amon S?l and find out what lurks there and what treasures are to be gained!   
   * You must explore the Trollshaws and find out what lurks there and what treasures are to be gained!   

  [Character Equipment]

 In main hand
a) steel waraxe
   Type: weapon / waraxe
 In off hand
b) steel waraxe
   Type: weapon / waraxe
   Dropped by red ooze
 On fingers
 Around neck
 Light source
c) brass lantern
   Type: lite / lite
    When wielded/worn:
    Light radius 2
 Main armor
d) iron plate armour
   Type: armor / massive
   Dropped by icy wyrmic uruk-hai
 On head
e) iron helm
   Type: armor / head
   Dropped by cutpurse
 On hands
 On feet
f) pair of rough leather boots
   Type: armor / feet
 Tool
 Quiver

  [Player Achievements]

'Level 10' was wchieved for Got a character to level 10. At 2010-09-12 19:26:14

  [Character Inventory]

a) 4 potion of cure poison
   Type: potion / potion
    It can be used to cure poison.
b) potion of free action
   Type: potion / potion
c) potion of see invisible
   Type: potion / potion
   Dropped by green ooze
d) long scroll of magic mapping
   Type: scroll / scroll
e) scroll of magic mapping
   Type: scroll / scroll
f) scroll of phase door
   Type: scroll / scroll
g) scroll of teleportation
   Type: scroll / scroll
   Dropped by blue ooze
h) charged(sense) copper amulet
   Type: jewelry / amulet
i) copper ring
   Type: jewelry / ring
   Dropped by white ooze
j) copper ring
   Type: jewelry / ring
k) steel dagger
   Type: weapon / dagger
   Dropped by white ooze
l) steel dagger of massacre
   Type: weapon / dagger
m) steel waraxe
   Type: weapon / waraxe
n) agate
   Type: gem / black
    When used to imbue an armour:
    Increases stats: 1 Strength,1 Dexterity,1 Magic,1 Willpower,1 Cunning.

  [Last Messages]

Reaver uses Acid Strike.
Reaver misses huorn.
Reaver hits huorn for    27.78 acid damage   .
Reaver hits huorn for    31.06 acid damage   .
Reaver killed huorn!
   Talent Acid Strike is ready to use.
   Talent Curse of Death is ready to use.
There is an item here:       potion   
Reaver picks up (b.):       potion   .
Reaver slides on a rock!
Reaver is stunned!
Xorn hits Reaver for    37.00 acid damage   .
Reaver is not stunned anymore.
Reaver uses Curse of Death.
Xorn is cursed.
Reaver hits xorn for    33.68 darkness damage   .
Xorn hits Reaver for    39.00 acid damage   .
The splash of acid destroys your       potion of lesser healing   !
Reaver hits xorn for    33.68 darkness damage   .
Reaver hits xorn for    33.68 darkness damage   .
Reaver hits xorn for    33.68 darkness damage   .
Reaver hits xorn for    33.68 darkness damage   .
Rantha the Worm slides on a rock!
Rantha the Worm is stunned!
Reaver hits xorn for    33.68 darkness damage   .
Reaver hits xorn for    33.68 darkness damage   .
Reaver hits xorn for    33.68 darkness damage   .
Reaver hits xorn for    33.68 darkness damage   .
Reaver hits xorn for    33.68 darkness damage   .
Reaver killed xorn!
   Talent Curse of Death is ready to use.
Rantha the Worm casts Freeze.
Rantha the Worm hits Reaver for    61.50 cold damage   .
Reaver is frozen!
Rantha the Worm breathes ice!
Rantha the Worm hits Reaver for    118.00 cold damage   .
Reaver warms up.
Rantha the Worm casts Freeze.
Rantha the Worm hits Reaver for    61.50 cold damage   .
Rantha the Worm killed Reaver!

[Feanor.81]

IIRC dazed is like asleep, i.e. the npc is stunned but will recover if you hit it.

[edge2054]

Besides having only one good ranged spell, and low melee damage at the start, you have no way to disable opponents (stun please?) and no way to heal. You only get one beam spell every 3 turns (~100 dmg, not bad) and you have to sacrifice 20% of your health every few spells.

Actually they have a lot of good ranged spells but you didn't invest in that tree >.>

Trust me, plague looks weak on paper but it might need a nerf.

Also Blood Sacrifice isn't the only way to recover Vim. Drain does quite a bit of damage on it's own and gives you back Vim.

As to the stun... you get it late but again you skipped that tree

Anyway I've only had to stair scum once with the class and that was on a boss I could have kited had I invested in some scrolls of enemy detect or phase door.

As to the bug I should mention another one, Ruin doesn't seem to work, at least not for me. It doesn't even take the Vim. Just does nothing

Aside from that I can't really comment on Bone. I started a second reaver so I could get a better feel for that tree. My impressions so far though are that Bone Spear might be cooler if the damage was nerfed a bit and it was given a special effect. Right now it's just a physical damage lightning bolt. If it caused bleeding or had a really high chance of criting (it's a spear that impales your opponents after all) it might be more fun. Or maybe it could knock back and pin if the opponent connects with a wall? (MWHAHA)

Bone Grab is kinda cool. You can pin someone back off and disease them, or pull guys into melee to spread more diseases around.

On that note, maybe Cyst Burst should increase to a radius of 2 at level 3 or 5? It can be pretty hard to get everyone diseased.

Drain could also give back some hit points and some Vim. Would help offset Blood Sacrifices a bit. Or do that with Absorb Life.

Anyway I'll post more once I get this guy up a bit further and get a chance to play with more of the talents.

[marvalis]

Pin has allot of potential but it actually teleports the enemy to a (seemingly) random location next to you. That way it is they can actually block off your escape route. You don't really need it for getting a monsters closer to you, they do that themselves lol.

Drain is a nice utility spell for when the monster comes to close, generally I try to avoid that (unless I can stun them).

The reason why I didn't go for the disease is because it seemed to take allot of skill-points and allot of skill-casts to get a combo going for some aoe dmg. I might have to try and see how it works out.

I all in favor of a knockback on the spine throw.

[edge2054]

I think you may have been trying to play them more like a caster then they really are. Granted it's easy to get into that playstyle because playing as a caster until you hit your stride makes life a lot easier but the class isn't built to do nothing but ranged damage.

Hence the Bone Grab talent, it's designed to pull ranged mobs to you Like archers.

Reavers are built to be hybrids but aside from that they're debuffers. Higher levels of Virulent Disease can lower stats by 10. Dark Surprise blinds. The curses and hexes are all about the debuffs. Even one of the classes main defensive talents is a debuff (acidic blood).

The class simply isn't built to go toe to toe with a full strength mob. If it was it would be overpowered because the class shouldn't be going toe to toe with full strength mobs, it should be going toe to toe with mobs who are diseased, cursed, hexed, sundered, and/or blinded

One thing I would like to say about diseases. If nothing else experiment with Virulent Disease before you judge the whole tree. Right now I'm using just that with the occasional cyst burst to spread the love and it's working great. I plan to pick up Epidemic when I have the points but as you've probably noticed the class needs a lot of talent points to really get going and my next two will probably go into acidic blood for the armor sunder.

[Final Master]

I'm going to be talking about each talent and I have them grouped in their talent trees. I'll also be giving them a broad rating of x/5 with 5 being the highest, 0 the lowest, and ? being I don't know what it does/broken.


Scourage
Rend (5/5): I really love this one. I love all the DOT effects of the class and this talent really shows that off. It's a physical talent, so Ruin effects it along with any damage effects your weapons have, plus sense it's a multiplier of damage (that then cuts), it can really cut through a mob fast. I recomend maxing it out as your melee talent, but only after Ruin is maxed.

Ruin (5/5): It works for me. It's a sustained so be sure it's turned on. It's AMAZING too, much like the Sun Paladin's Weapon of Light talent, only way better because it doesn't drain. Also it's sustained cost isn't all that great for the damage it will add. Sure, 5 damage or so at level 1 may not seem like much, but that's five damage per attack, and you with two attacks a turn, that's 10 extra damage. It really really helps with your otherwise weak melee damage output. This should be either your first or second class talent to max out.

Acid Strike (3/5): It's a good bit of damage once you have some medium attack (remember kids, always invest in weapon combat) but it really shines and should only be used when there's more than one npc next to you, that way the splash damage can show it's full potential.

Dark Surprise (2/5): I thought that this was going to be better than it was. The damage always seemed way lower than what I was expecting from the description, and the blinding from it didn't ever seem to do anything. I was able to blind most things with it, but they were still able to find me just fine, follow me, hit me just like if they were not blinded. Also, I'm not sure it forced a critical once with the second blow. Don't know if it was bad luck or what. On the plus side, if you do have a big mob (like the labyrinth minotaur) bleeding, poisoned, diseased, ect then Dark Surprise is a good turn five/six hit as it should really add up for damage that turn.

Sanguisuge
Blood Sacrifice (5/5): Really your most important talent, and the 20% hit is really nothing at all if you use it smart, such as when your disease/cut/ect damage is going to kill the mob. Just use this, and you're probably right back up to full vim or close to it. Raise this with weapon focus, alternating as you go. At level 3 even (if you're running with Ruin sustained) it should completely fill or be just a few points shy of filling your vim at every use. At level 5 (at character level 22) it has yet to not completely fill my vim.

Drain (2/5): Two issues with this one. One, the description says "Fires a bolt of blight". Now, normally a bolt travels a bit of distance, usually at least 5 squares or greater. Well in Drain's case, it's only two tiles worth (at talent level 1). I don't know if it's meant to go such a small distance, but if it's really going to be a bolt then it should probably have a range of about 5. Otherwise just make it another weapon based melee assault. Two, the 20% of the damage dealt with it always seemed to give me back exactly 10 vim, no matter the damage I dealt.

Absorb Life (?/5): I'm not sure how this works exactly. I haven't tried it, but I assume you gain back health as you kill mobs, but each turn it costs you 1 vim (while killing a mob grants you some back). The problem with this is, it doesn't give any clue how much health I should expect to have returned to me. If it doesn't work like this then... anyone?

Life Tap (3/5): I haven't played with this one yet either, but with the wide range of damage types Reavers can inflict, Life Tap seems like a perfect fit. A couple issues though, it doesn't say how much life it will take from me, nor does it give a duration. The amount of damage boost though seems like a good amount; I believe it's 7% [!] at level 1 which is just huge.

Reaving Combat
Corrupted Strength (1/5): I wouldn't put any points into it as it only increases the damage of your offhand weapon, and by marginal amounts at that. You'll be able to do enough damage in both melee and range to not worry about using class points here.

Bloodlust (2/5): It seems like a bit of an odd skill to have to me. Reavers are all about debuffs, and here we have a buff. And an odd one at that. It's passive, as all things are in this talent tree (which makes them have the potential to be really good), but it's a buff to your spellpower. Now... I have a question. Does spellpower effect non-spell talents, like things that run off of equilibrium/vim/positive/negative/stamina? If so... then I'd give it a 4/5. Other wise, if it just effects maybe the bone tree, then just put a point in it so you can get to the goods further down.

Carrier (3/5): This is were we are starting to get somewhere. It grants you a good amount of resist to disease (though it isn't displayed on the character sheet), and gives you a chance to spread disease for free. I'm not sure exactly how that works, as with the same deal with Epedimic, but if it's a chance to inflict a disease on an enemy in melee that doesn't have a disease, or add another disease to someone that is inflicted, then it's a pure awesome 5/5 easy. If not then I'd still give it a 3/5 as it will make you immune to disease (which is like a much stronger poison).

Acid Blood (5/5): This is by far my favorite talent of the class. It is just passive dubuffing at it's finest. Sure, it's a shield effect, but it's a REALLY GOOD one. 1) It's passive, so it's free and always on. 2) It deals Acid damage, one that isn't all that highly resisted or so broadly resisted. 3) It lowers the enemies ATTACK. Meaning that you become harder to hit, and it appears to be a cumulative effect! 4) At level 3, it also lowers their ARMOR! You shouldn't ever have an issue hitting (defense) but with all your DOT effects, armor will rape your face. This helps you get around that pretty well. Sure, you have to let yourself be hit once, but it's a simple matter of phasing away afterward (you are a magic stat based character, so it'll be a good phase).

Plague
Virulent Disease (5/5): This is by far your most useful ranged talent on it's own and when comboed with. One, it does damage immediately AND over time. Along with that, it will either lower (possibly) strength, dexterity, or constitution; and by a good amount at that (10). So, it's got range, it's a cheap cost, it's the first talent, it's cooldown is super fast, and it debuffs one of three pretty good stats to hit. Oh, what's that? You can inflict more than one disease at a time? So they take two hits to health and two stats are down at the same time? WHAT!? You have good effects that go with this!? Amazing!!!!

Cyst Burst (1/5 or 10/5): This is the first and most obvious combo with Virulent Disease. On it's own, it does nothing. However, say... you have a pit. You're able to disease an enemy that has maybe 3 or 4 mobs adjacent to it. Use Cyst Burst! Now all that DOT becomes Right Now OT, and that particular disease is now effecting all the adjacent mobs, so now they are taking the DOT. Think of it as Fireflash turning into Corrosive Vapors with a hole in it. Ya, better than that.

Catalepsy (2/5 or 10/5): This is a second combo with Virulent Disease, but it's even better as a third piece to the V/Cyst combo. If you go Disease to a surrounded mob, then Cyst Burst, then Catalepsy, it's like a second Fireflash! Though, instead of burning, they're Stunned! The only drag with this is that it removes the disease status from any of them that happen to survive the nasty explosion; but with good reason. Another issue is, the cost is a bit high, but when timed right it almost feels free.

Epidemic (?/5 or 10/5): If this is kind of like Cyst Burst only on a whole new level, then it is maybe the strongest combo talent in the game, if not within the top 5 talents in the game over all. As Ruin causes (non-disease) Blight damage you can almost instantly make this trigger. If it does trigger, then any pit/splitting thing will be kept under control until you do use Catalepsy and just wreck havoc. Regardless though, it REALLY needs a given radius in the description.

Curses - All the curses need some hint at duration, especially vulnerability -
Curse of Defenselessness (2/5): This is a good idea, but feels unnecessary. As almost all of your status effects are based on your spellpower/magic stat, (and given that they should be pretty high for a non-devoted mage), you should be able to bypass npc saves quiet easily. However, I do see this becoming rather useful against stubborn strong elites and bosses. The 20 cost on it also seems very excessive. Probably cut it in half or make it about 12 myself.

Curse of Impotence (4/5): For the name alone, easily a 5/5. The effect though, is also very good. In my opinion, this is much better (in many cases) than raising your armor. Against things that can do some massive one turn damage against you, this is my first tactic choice. It's easily much more useful against large, single npcs when you'll be fighting 1 vs <4, because the effect starts to lose the appeal with the more targets present. Again though, the cost seems a bit off. At times the 20 vim seems almost free, and others it feels like I'm robbed. Maybe drop it to 15?

Curse of Death (1/5): This is most likely the weakest curse even though it's proactive. The damage amount seems low, and natural healing is really only a concern when you are column dancing (which you shouldn't be doing with a Reaver anyway). The bit that says "The resistances will decrease with Magic stat" I don't understand... Bonus: It's Darkness damage! Not that anything is weak to it, and almost all undead things are greatly resistant... (So it's Physical, Blight, Darkness and Acid so far)

Curse of Vulnerability (5/5): This is what all those black orc spellcasters in the prides is slinging at you. This is your chance to sling it back. It can REALLY debuff a target (I'm talking somwhere along 20% at times) and as it's a negative resistance penalty to ALL damage types, it's even more helpful to Reavers. This lets all your diseases do more damage, melee attacks sky rocket in effectiveness, and for the standard 20 vim, it really seems under priced. The 20 cooldown however keeps it from being broken, but this is THE curse to get.

Hexes
Pacification Hex (0/5): This is your anti-plague tree. This single talent alone makes an entire tree worthless. Because Daze is broken out of once damage is dealt, if something is diseased, poisoned, ect. the DOT will break the Daze effect. This states that there's a chance that the effected target will become Dazed again, but I've never seen it.

Burning Hex (1/5): This one sucks without ruining a whole tree. It only comes into effect against things that use talents, and really the only things that reliably use talents are spellcasters and wyrmics. (I'm looking at the orcs here, not the skeletons). It only deals damage when they use a talent, and only then. It's not like a delayed burning status, it's just a drop of damage. Luckily it deals a new damage type for Reavers, which is Fire. Oh... ya, fire, probably the most or second most resisted damage type in the game. Well... there goes that then.

Empathetic Hex (2/5): This reminds me of the Martyr talent that Sun Paladins get. You hex your target, and if the target damages you, they take a percentage of that damage themselves. Here's some issues. 1) You really shouldn't be getting hit unless you want to get hit. 2) The % is rather low for the amount of damage that you can expect to be getting hit by. 3) It's 30!!! vim, just like the rest of the hexes...

Domination Hex (?/5): I'm not sure how this works. I think it turns the hexed npc into an ally allied state, meaning that it won't attack you and will only attack those that are now not allied with it (note: I'm sure that once you deal damage to it it'll turn on you). Anyone used this hex and able to fill me in more?

Bone
Bone Spear (3/5): A physical damage lightning bolt. Enough said. Though, I do like the idea of edge's where it would have nerfed damage but a knockback/pinning effect. I prefer the knock back effect myself. That would really give this some utility, especially with the hallway fighting. Though, I'm not sure how multiple instances of knockback happening at the same time might be handled... Also, it feels a bit expensive at 13 vim when lightning is 10 mana.

Bone Grab (2/5): Bone Grab is one of those talents where it is REALLY close to being really really useful almost all the time, but it just isn't there yet. The enemy is deposited randomly, it costs 28 vim with a 15 turn cooldown, the range is a bit low for what it's really supposed to be used for (15) [I'm talking wide open spaces or places with super long hallways like carn dum, old forest, the prides, and ofcourse Tol Falas]. Also, the damage is a one time effect, and it isn't as much as I'd expect. The pinning aspect IS nice however, but it seems counter productive.

Bone Nova (?/5): I haven't gotten to use Bone Nova yet, but if it's a view effect physical damage spell, then it's easily a 5/5 if not better. If it is a view type, I'd be happy paying 80 or more vim for it.

Bone Shield (?/5): I haven't also gotten to try Bone Shield either. It looks like a mix between the 4th skeleton talent and the Shielding scroll. I say it could prove useful against enemies that deal big damage in single attacks, but completely useless against stuff that is DOT. At 150 vim, there should be a good amount of shields as well.


Over all, I think Plauge is the best tree to invest in, and the most fun to play with. Bone seems like it could be useful, with some tweeks but right now I would really kind of ignore it outside of dropping a single point in bone spear for a beam effect. Scourge's second act needs some adjustments to compete on the same level as the first half. Sanguisage is obviously an important tree but also doesn't feel just right yet. Hexes are just over costed, longer ranged, weaker Curses in my opinion, and even though they are different style effects, they seem a bit too similar. Hexes are very weak compared to Curses, and that's not just because of the power of Curse of Vulnerability either.

I really think that Reavers are my new favorite class now, and I really enjoy playing them as Dunadan. With a few tweaks to the way the talents function and better detailed descriptions, Reavers may very well become #3/4 in over all power.

[Grey]

Uh, sorry to make a fuss, but could this be moved to spoilers please?

[edge2054]

Uh, sorry to make a fuss, but could this be moved to spoilers please?

Yeah, I actually started a more spoilish thread in spoilers. Maybe this one should be moved and the two should be merged?

Nice post Final Master I've been anxiously awaiting this class getting unlocked and played more to hear some feedback.

A couple of things. Drain does really good damage for a generic talent (though I also don't get the range being so low, I think this will hurt the caster corruptors the most but maybe DG has something else in mind for them).

Bloodlust; if it says blah scales off magic bloodlust increases it's damage. It also increases the effect of a few abilities like the stat damage diseases do. Finally the description is a little vague. You gain spellpower every time you inflict damage on a target, meaning it has synergy with all those dots you love. If you're fighting a bear and it's plagued and bleeding, that's two points for Bloodlust. If you just attack it with your weapons and hit both times, that's two points for Bloodlust. Bloodlust is the Reavers answer to both Arcane Power and the various hybrid spellpower boosting trees.

Finally, Bone Shield is sick. I'm not a huge fan of the rest of the tree (and honestly I was pushing DG to go with a Blood tree instead) but Bone Shield is worth building a character around. For each talent point (not raw btw) you get one Bone. That bone 100% negates a hit (could do 1 billion damage and it would still negate it). Once the bones are gone the talent deactivates. Also... you can activate sustained abilities as long as your maximum Vim meets the requirements. In other words you're fighting uber tough boss dude, you drop 100 Vim into him and have all your dots ticking away, your Vim is at 100/200 now. He smacks you around a bit, you pop Bone Shield, you're now at 50/50 Vim. See?

Not as fun as Acidic Blood but Bone Shield's probably a better defensive talent in all honesty.

Anyway, here's the other thread.

http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=4 ... it=Reavers

P.S. My comment about Ruin being broke was for a previous beta.