Beta 8: how far

[darkgod]

So how far did people go in beta 8 ?
Anybody seen the latest zones or unlocked the new classes ?

[Taxorgian]

Not I. I saw Gorbug for the first time yesterday (yes, I'm not that good lol).

[Mushroomhermit]

I keep getting perma pinned by post death arrows

[Patryn]

Hi.
After a long absence from ToME I took a peek into it a couple of weeks ago and (of course) had to try tome4. Unlocked the SunPala with an archer in beta7 and (to get back ontopic) ran through the game in beta8 with the pala (easy cheesy on "normal" with the pala).

Actually i'm done with Mt.Doom and Vor Pride and peeked into the Grushnak(sp?) Pride a bit.

Some comments on the new stuff of b8:
Vor Pride
Hell, thats fun. Beside the Elven Ruins boss (killed the one and only "ancestor" of my current pala that made it beyond lvl5) the only actual challenge to the pala. The high pyro- and high cryomancers did give me quite a beating if I stumbled across them in open field (sloppy me). Once, they got me down to 7hp and only a very lucky high-risk phase door saved me, that ported me into a room instead of (very likely) making everything worse.

Grushnak Pride
- I like the layout so far. Can't really say much about it, but it feels most roguelike'isch up2now. Just do me a favor and make it evil when its finished.
- I met a GMH wyrm in merry company of a Fire and Cold Wyrm. Got really excited since you declared it as badass. Well, took all of em head on (ok, I was round a corner so they had to walk to me) and lost something like... uhrm... 300hp in total with my lvl36 pally. Nothing really special about him (he did a breath once and still didn't matter much). The loot was only some gold too. Disappointing, kinda... Actually I think the eternal bone golem is much tougher (at least at the time youre meant to meet them).

new classes unlocked
None so far. I usually avoid spoilers I didn't "know" already and just forgot the details or want to look up game mechanics so I don't know how exactly they're supposed to be unlocked. Just that it has something to do with the Vor Pride.

unrelated stuff
- The "Orb of Command" stuff you get from the Pride Bosses. Is it for the upcoming storyline? Because I didn't find any use for them up to now...
- I like very much that "nests" can appear and non-native creatures spawn. The game need more of such stuff to give a thrill (take the vault head on or not?).

Summary:
tome4 looks pretty promising actually. I like the storytelling system and how the game develops by unlocking, allthough it feels more like "classic" hack'n'slay rpg than a munchkinish rougelike. Propably I'm going to write a longer post on some general stuff I noticed playing b7+8 soon...

Cheers and keep it up!
Patryn

edit: some really ugly typos...

[darkgod]

Hey welcome back

First, could you post a character dump of you paladin ?
You sound quite powerful, I dont like that ;>

So you did not find the master challenging ?
What would you change to make things more challenging in general ? Monsters are not tough enough ? or your character was too strong ?

GMHW: it only breathed once ? it did nothing else ?

The orbs of command are indeed for the next part of the story. They'll probably get uses on their own too.

Thanks for the comments!

[Patryn]

[Tome 4.00 @ www.te4.org Character Dump]

Sex : Male STR: 64
Race : D??nadan DEX: 25
Class : Sun Paladin MAG: 60
Level : 37 WIL: 19
Exp : 8% CUN: 15
Gold : 722.32 CON: 31

Attack(Main Hand): 89 Life : 940/940 Encumbrance : 53.4/155
Damage(Main Hand): 162 Stamina : 246/246 Difficulty : Normal
APR (Main Hand): 10
Crit (Main Hand): 11%
Speed (Main Hand): 1.00 Equilibrium : 0

Fatigue : 59% Spellpower : 65
Armor : 23.1 Spell Crit : 2.5%
Defense : 23.25 Spell Speed : 1
Ranged Defense : 33.25

Cold damage : 25%

Physical Resist : 23.75
Spell Resist : 23.75
Mental Resist : 8.5

Fire Resist: 53%
Cold Resist: 105%
Nature Resist: 20%
Lightning Resist: 35%
Acid Resist: 35%

Number of NPC killed: 2744
Most killed NPC: uruk-hai (141)

[Talents Chart]

- Technique / Weapons and shields (mastery 1.10)
Shield Pummel (class) 5/5
Riposte (class) 2/5
Overpower (class) 1/5
Assault (class) 5/5
- Technique / Combat techniques (mastery 1.10)
Quick Recovery (class) 3/5
Fast Metabolism (class) 1/5
Spell Shield (class) 1/5
Unending Frenzy (class) 2/5
- Technique / Combat training (mastery 1.10)
Heavy Armour Training (class) 1/5
Massive Armour Training (class) 1/5
Health (class) 1/5
Weapon Combat (class) 10/10
Sword Mastery (class) 10/10
Axe Mastery (class) 0/10
Mace Mastery (class) 0/10
Knife Mastery (class) 0/10
- Wild-gift / Sand drake aspect (mastery 1.00)
Burrow (class) 1/5
Swallow (class) 0/5
Quake (class) 0/5
Sand Breath (class) 0/5
- Divine / Chants (mastery 1.30)
Chant of Fortitude (class) 1/5
Chant of Fortress (class) 5/5
Chant of Resistance (class) 3/5
Chant of Light (class) 0/5
- Divine / Light (mastery 1.00)
Healing Light (class) 5/5
Bathe in Light (class) 1/5
Barrier (class) 1/5
Second Life (class) 0/5
- Divine / Combat (mastery 1.30)
Weapon of Light (class) 5/5
Martyrdom (class) 1/5
Wave of Power (class) 2/5
Crusade (class) 0/5
- Divine / Sun (mastery 1.00)
Searing Light (class) 5/5
Sun Flare (class) 1/5
Firebeam (class) 5/5
Sunburst (class) 1/5

[Current Effects]

- Weapon of Light
- Chant of Resistance

[Completed Quests]

-- The Island of Dread
-- Important news
-- An apprentice task
-- A mysterious staff
-- Into the darkness
-- Eight legs of wonder
-- Trapped!
-- Let's hunt some Orc
-- The Doom of the World!
-- The wild wild east

[Active Quests]

-- Of trolls and damp caves
Explore the caves below the tower of Amon S?»l and the trollshaws in search of treasure and glory!

* You must explore Amon S?»l and find out what lurks there and what treasures are to be gained!
* You must explore the Trollshaws and find out what lurks there and what treasures are to be gained!
-- The many Prides of the Orcs
Investigate the bastions of the Pride.
* You have destroyed Rak'shor.
* A group of corrupted humans live in Eastport on the southern costline, they have contact with the Pride.
* You have destroyed Vor.
* Grushnak Pride, whose location remains unknown.
* Gorbat Pride, in the southern desert.

[Character Equipment]

In main hand
a) Ringil, the glittering sword of Fingolfin (38-53.2 power, 10 apr)
Type: weapon / longsword
38 Power [Range 1.40] (+100% Strength), 0 Attack, 10 Armor Penetration, Crit 10%
Damage type: physical

Damage on hit(melee): 15 ice.
Increases resistances: 25% cold.
Increases damage type: 20% cold.
Light radius 1
See invisible: 2
It can be used to generate a burst of ice, costing 8 power out of 18/18.
In off hand
b) galvorn shield of fire resistance (10 def, 2 armor)
Type: armor / shield
Armor 2, Defense 10
Fatigue 14%
Increases resistances: 18% fire.
On fingers
c) Ring of Ulmo
Type: jewelry / ring
Increases stats: 4 Willpower,3 Constitution.
Increases resistances: 25% cold,10% nature.
Maximum mana 20
Maximum stamina 20
It can be used to summon a tidal wave, costing 60 power out of 60/60.
d) steel ring of regeneration (+0.60/turn)
Type: jewelry / ring
Regenerates 0.60 hitpoints each turn.
Around neck
e) Choker of Dread
Type: jewelry / amulet
Attack 0, Armor Penetration 0, Physical Crit 0%, Physical power 5
Increases blindness immunity: 100%.
Spellpower 5, Spell Crit 0%
See invisible: 10
It can be used to summon an elder vampire to your side, costing 60 power out of 60/60.
Light source
f) Arkenstone of Thrain
Type: lite / lite
Light radius 5
It can be used to map surroundings, costing 100 power out of 150/150.
Main armor
g) galvorn plate armour of stability (7 def, 13 armor)
Type: armor / massive
Armor 13, Defense 7
Fatigue 26%
Increases stun immunity: 70%.
Increases knockback immunity: 70%.
On head
h) Crown of the Elements (0 def, 5 armor)
Type: armor / head
Armor 5, Defense 0
Fatigue 5%
Increases stats: 5 Constitution,3 Willpower.
Damage on hit(melee): 10 fire,10 acid,10 lightning,10 cold.
Increases resistances: 15% fire,15% acid,15% lightning,15% cold.
See invisible: 15
On hands
On feet
i) Frost Treads (1 def, 2 armor)
Type: armor / feet
Armor 2, Defense 1
Fatigue 14%
Increases stats: 4 Strength,4 Dexterity,4 Cunning.
Increases resistances: 20% cold,10% nature.
Increases damage type: 5% cold.
Light radius 1
Tool
Quiver

[Character Inventory]

a) Ever-Refilling Potion of Healing
Type: potion / potion
It can be used to heal, costing 80 power out of 100/100.
b) 2 acid-proof potion of greater healing
Type: potion / potion
It can be used to heal a lot.
c) 4 giant potion of greater healing
Type: potion / potion
It can be used to heal a lot.
d) giant potion of healing
Type: potion / potion
It can be used to heal a good part of your life.
e) 3 potion of cure disease
Type: potion / potion
It can be used to cure poison.
f) 3 potion of cure poison
Type: potion / potion
It can be used to cure poison.
g) 7 potion of greater healing
Type: potion / potion
It can be used to heal a lot.
h) 15 potion of healing
Type: potion / potion
It can be used to heal a good part of your life.
i) 4 potion of lesser healing
Type: potion / potion
It can be used to heal some life.
j) 6 potion of speed
Type: potion / potion
It can be used to increase your speed for a while.
k) 4 fire-proof scroll of enemies detection
Type: scroll / scroll
It can be used to detect enemies within a certain range.
l) 2 fire-proof scroll of identify
Type: scroll / scroll
It can be used to identify one object (or all with high magic stat).
m) 2 fire-proof scroll of phase door
Type: scroll / scroll
It can be used to teleport you randomly over a short distance.
n) fire-proof scroll of shielding
Type: scroll / scroll
It can be used to create a temporary shield that absorbs damage.
o) scroll of enemies detection
Type: scroll / scroll
It can be used to detect enemies within a certain range.
p) 4 scroll of identify
Type: scroll / scroll
It can be used to identify one object (or all with high magic stat).
q) scroll of shielding
Type: scroll / scroll
It can be used to create a temporary shield that absorbs damage.
r) scroll of teleportation
Type: scroll / scroll
It can be used to teleport you anywhere on the level, randomly.
s) Fiery Choker
Type: jewelry / amulet
Increases stats: 5 Magic,4 Willpower,3 Cunning.
Increases resistances: 20% fire,-20% cold.
Increases damage type: 10% fire,-5% cold.
Increases blindness immunity: 100%.
Spellpower 7, Spell Crit 8%
t) charged(stunning blow) gold amulet
Type: jewelry / amulet
It can be used to activate talent: Stunning Blow (level 2), costing 1 power out of 4/4.
u) charged(time prison) steel amulet
Type: jewelry / amulet
It can be used to activate talent: Time Prison (level 1), costing 1 power out of 3/4.
v) gold amulet of the fish
Type: jewelry / amulet
w) Elemental Orb (Orb of Command)
Type: jewelry / orb
x) Orb of Many Ways
Type: jewelry / orb
It can be used to activate a portal, costing 25 power out of 50/50.
y) Orb of Undeath (Orb of Command)
Type: jewelry / orb
z) Steel Helm of Hammerhand (0 def, 4 armor)
Type: armor / head
Armor 4, Defense 0
Fatigue 8%
Increases stats: 3 Strength,3 Constitution,4 Willpower.
Increases physical resistance: 7.
Increases spell resistance: 7.
Increases mental resistance: 7.
{) Phial of Galadriel
Type: lite / lite
Light radius 4
It can be used to call light, costing 10 power out of 15/15.
|) charged(teleport) dwarven lantern of clear sight
Type: lite / lite
Increases blindness immunity: 50%.
Light radius 3
It can be used to activate talent: Teleport (level 2), costing 1 power out of 5/6.
}) charged(identify) dwarven lantern of clear sight
Type: lite / lite
Increases blindness immunity: 50%.
Light radius 3
It can be used to activate talent: Identify (level 2), costing 1 power out of 4/4.
~) Rod of Spydric Poison
Type: wand / wand
It can be used to shoot a bolt of spyric poison, costing 25 power out of 75/75.

[Patryn]

Hey welcome back

First, could you post a character dump of you paladin ?
You sound quite powerful, I dont like that ;>

So you did not find the master challenging ?
What would you change to make things more challenging in general ? Monsters are not tough enough ? or your character was too strong ?

GMHW: it only breathed once ? it did nothing else ?

The orbs of command are indeed for the next part of the story. They'll probably get uses on their own too.

Thanks for the comments!

After the dump, now your questions:

• The master was not very challenging (though it was still in the Top5 of tough situations). Lure him into a tunnel and the summons dont matter. Then just stun (shield bash) and give him everything u got (assault, etc.). He dies pretty fast actually (okay I got ringil before directly before I went to Tol'Falas).
• GMHW: Nope, it didn't have much of an opporunity anyways. Unlike the eternal Bone Golem it takes (nearly) full damage what makes the 1700hp almost doable within one shield-bash-stun. IIRC he breathed when standing behind the Cold Wyrm that accompanied him (when the GMHW was still out of melee reach), but dont remember exactly the situation.
• Challenging monsters? No. Most of them are not challeniging when encountered 1on1 or in a controlled situation (eg a tunnel corner where at most 2 monsters can have you in LoS). Ringil makes things quite cheesy too, because it freezes very often on hit, giving you free attacks. I miss the "oh-shit" effects when you see a crazy Black Reaver tunneling towards you with ESP, or when you turn around a corner, see a Q und suddenly you're suddenly surrounded by Ancient Dragons or Greater Undeads which summon themselfs again and again.
  The only notable summon happens sometimes when a ghoulking summons ghast and they summon more ghasts. But standing in a tunnel and giving the weakness of the single mob you can just take em down one by one. Up to now I very rarely missed the possibility to dig something like anti-summon tunnels (and when I did, it was only because of general LoS issues because nothing appropriate happened to be nearby).
• Mt.Doom was quite a callenge for the pala (#3 in the tough-situations-list, after the high cryo and pyromancer bombing I mentioned before and the Greater Mummy Lord). I've seen it in the very first time and I jumped in quite unprepared. It took nearly my complete stack of greater heals and heals. In addition the time-limit cuts down the use of the powerful stamina-based moves (stun, assault) and the lack of tight tunnels make you being hit by many monsters at a time, given the fact that the pala has no strong AoE. Reached the final area 11 turns before the deadline even though I used 3 potions of speed to get things on more quickly. Nice encounter! *thumbs up*
• I won't really say that the pala is too strong in general. Choosing the favorable situation to encounter the baddies, the archer went through beta7 (hes in the first Pride right now, didn't play him anymore after I startet pala in b8) just with little more hardships. It's just a bit different and of course you have to adjust your gameplay but I won't say the archer is weaker in any sense. Can't say much about the other classes, since I just looked into them a bit (lvl < 10). With beta9 I'm going to finally play an archmage from scratch.
• Side note: One of the quest descriptions in the Mt. Doom questline was missing. Don't know exactly which one anymore though.
• Spicing things up:
  I would like to see more nests, pits and vaults worth clearing at high risk but with possible high reward too. But I guess that has to wait until the game has more variety in powerful egos and artifact world drops. And more situations that may force you to retreat a level completely. Latter is kind of cheesy as the game is right now, but with random-quests in old tome it was a tough decision because it meant that you have to hunt the strong baddies all over again to progress. I would like to see such power-dive "blockers" (except for the sandworm lair, that would be just MORE annoying ), because at some point I just went straight downwards, killing the boss/completing quest and straight back up.

Ugh. Propable some more stuff comes into my mind when I think about it some more... but thats enough for now.

EDIT:
Ah yes. The path my char took was: Old Forest, Maze, Carn'Dum, SWLair, elven ruins, Tol'Falas, Moria, Spiders, Rak'shor tribe, Mt.Doom "forest" and lavarun, Vor pride, peeking into the last pride.

[Zaive]

I still can't get past the master.... Though I haven't been playing much ever since my mage died to his own ice storm.

[darkgod]

Don't despair Zaive!
People have played some RL for years without winning

[edge2054]

I think my first non-cheesy (read: non-alchemist) 2.x winner was an Ent Sorcerer. Figured if DG could do it with an Ent Sorcerer anyone could

[Patryn]

Yeah, my last winner was a Sorceror. I think it was still ToME 1.x or even PernAngband (may I mention this name aloud? *hides from Anne*). And before that... ugh... I think I did beat the Balrog in Moria (not the dungeon, the old pre-Angband game) once. ;D

Somehow I always got myself killed somewhere in deep Angband. Propably always_small_rooms and 98 randomquests wasn't such a good idea for the late game... *whistles innocently*

[Taxorgian]

Of course you could have played T-Plus and had an invincible Avatar character before long.

[darkgod]

Well it's good that there are people that are still struggling with the master it means that normal difficulty is .. normal
I have much improved the insanity of insane mode for next beta, you'll do much less damage and take much more, it's .. well, unfair

I've also added a few monsters that I hope will make people think "oh damned", monsters that silence casters and disarm melee weapons.

Maybe player HP scales a bit too easily ?

Thanks for mount doom, I had some fun creating it !

I'll add vaults & such yes, the pits are just the beginning.

As for egos & artifacts, I am open to ideas

[Patryn]

Hmm. That sounds like good news.

While playing an insane archmage today a bit, I noticed something that may be a reason why you rarely get into a real pinch:

1. Speed. Basically everything moves at nearly the same speed (very few exceptions as some snakes - but they move eratically what makes their speed advantage less dangerous). Combined with the fact that a level is not slowly respawning as it was in *band and tome 2.x, you can usually flee by simply walking away because you can be sure that the area you already cleared is absolutely safe.

2. There are (almost) no ood monsters. Okay, sure... monsters that dont belong in this dungeon can spawn but if they do, they're usually not out-of-depth. I've seen an orc warrior in lvl1 today and thought "whoops, thats going to be hard". Well, he had 80hp and was about as much of a threat as a wolf...
Without real ood monsters, even pits and vaults will be pretty easy to handle, if you choose an appropriate tactic. Ok, there are a lot of monsters but you can avoid handling them all at once. Therefore, even if you spawn the stronger types in the center of the pit (like it was in old tome) the monster is not really that much more difficult. Its just a new type and scaled to a relative difficulty comparable to the difficulty when you're meant to meet this type regularly.

[Shoob]

I has found a GMHW and it *never* breathed on me (or even hit me for that matter)... I guess that is because I went down the stairs and it spawned right next to me...