Mages a bit to hard to unlock?

[Rimbecano]

I'm finding the requirement to find 15 staves to be a bit much for unlocking mages, considering that I'm the type whose character who made it the deepest in Tome 2.x was a yeek sorcerer, and how rare staves seem to be...

[Frumple]

S'been brought up a few times, before. Honestly, it's not so much 'hard' as 'time consuming'. Staves spawn often enough in the Old Forest (Which is more or less harmless once you've got a few levels in you.) that getting the 15 happens sooner or later, if you're patient. Trying to just pick up fifteen as you go along does take a bloody long time and is indeed quite difficult, though. Concentrated effort, not so much. Bit of a nuisance, sure.

Having to get the 15 every time I want to get back to the super-shop of accesory-ie doom is much more of a kick in the pants than unlocking mage was, teh be honest.

[bio_hazard]

Unlocking skeletons was much more annoying for me- after many, many "natural" deaths in Amon Sul I still hadn't unlocked it. It took maybe an hour and 30 or more throw-away kamikaze characters to finally unlock it. For the mage, I got lucky with several treasure vaults, and was able to buy half or more of the staves I needed.

Maybe this should be in Ideas, but how about require only the Amon Sul bosses' drop to unlock the mage city once mages have been unlocked? this would give a reason to do the dungeon, and mages who might use the staff already have access to the city.

[Gwai]

I recommend buying some of the staves. As soon as my husband thought to do that, my next character unlocked them.

[madmonk]

The important thing to remember is you only have to do this once...

Then you have access forever! So I generated a special stave collecting character and did that and nothing else. The Old forest is definitely good here.

[Shoob]

I don't think that they are hard to unlock per say, staves are fairly common.

and I think that they were referring to Angolwen when they said you have to do it for each character, with that you do have to unlock it each game if you want to go there.

[Vanguard]

Having to get the 15 every time I want to get back to the super-shop of accesory-ie doom is much more of a kick in the pants than unlocking mage was, teh be honest.

Yeah that's the worst part for me.

Honestly though I think mages should be made fast and easy to unlock because a lot of the people who try this game are going to want to try them.

[Gwai]

Speaking of which, are there any plans to open the existing accessory store in Bree?

[Shoob]

Speaking of which, are there any plans to open the existing accessory store in Bree?

I would be against opening any jewelry stores in easy to access places right now, just because they are so easy to scum... but then again, I am also averse to the jewelry store in angolwen, because it makes the game soooo much easier.

Honestly though I think mages should be made fast and easy to unlock because a lot of the people who try this game are going to want to try them.

I can see your point, but again, I could say that there are people who try this game that are going to want to play summoners or wyrmics or sun paladins or anorithils or skeletons or ghouls right off the bat, does this mean that unlockables should be completely removed from the game? I wouldn't think so, it makes the game fun because you get a feeling of accomplishment without beating the game.

I suppose there would be people that want to play t4 to see how they like it, maybe there could be a different version that has *all* the classes/races unlocked...

then I could see 1 of 2 places to go from there:
a) ask you every time if you want to remove the unlocks, or
b) make it so that only 1 or 2 levels are playabe

then call it the t4 trial version (strange though, having a trial version of a free game), but then again t4 is still in beta, so there is still work being done to make it a full game.

[bio_hazard]

In terms of access to Angolwen, here's another idea.

for non-mage characters, require a lower number of staffs EACH TIME you want access in a game. This would be like a toll to use their portal. Either a static number each time (e.g. 3), or an ever increasing number for each subsequent visit (1,2,3,....) or (1,2,4,8,...)

Perhaps mages could be required to sacrifice a single staff each time they visit the city as well.

[darkgod]

I kinda like the idea that once unlocked it would only require less staves to access.
Maybe just Angmar's Fall

[Vanguard]

I can see your point, but again, I could say that there are people who try this game that are going to want to play summoners or wyrmics or sun paladins or anorithils or skeletons or ghouls right off the bat, does this mean that unlockables should be completely removed from the game?

No, obscure classes like those are fine for coming later, but your basic elemental mage is something a typical roguelike player expects to have as an option. Someone new to Tome 4 won't know wyrmics and such exist or expect them to be options, but they'll wonder why there's no mage.

Really though my biggest complaint isn't that mages are an unlockable class, but that the method of unlocking them involves farming as opposed to, say, the wyrmic or sun paladin which are based on killing bosses as you progress through the game.

Maybe just Angmar's Fall

There's an idea. It's challenge-based instead of farming-based, and Angmar's Fall is something non-mages aren't going to care about.

[Shoob]

so what are your thoughts on unlocking ghouls and skeletons then

it is a bit strange farming deaths.

and back on track... what would you say would be a better solution to unlocking mages, I think that the amon sul boss is too early/easy to unlock mages with... but I suppose if people want it that soon it is sufficient.

[Gwai]

Lol, Shoob! So true.

But for the record, I can't say I think Angmar's fall is that easy. I find Old Man Willow and Bill both easier.

[bio_hazard]

so what are your thoughts on unlocking ghouls and skeletons then

it is a bit strange farming deaths.

and back on track... what would you say would be a better solution to unlocking mages, I think that the amon sul boss is too early/easy to unlock mages with... but I suppose if people want it that soon it is sufficient.

I don't mind the current mage unlock, although 15 staves is a lot. Would 9 be too few? 5 staves, 5 rings, 5 amulets? I think Angmar's Fall would be a good unlock for the mage city in future games once mages are unlocked.

I'm not a fan of the skele/ghoul unlocks either. not sure what a solution would be though. Killing X undead is not that great either, but at least it is not a total waste of time.