Burial Sites in Old Forest

[cttw]

I hadn't yet opened any of the burial sites you can sometimes find in Old Forest. I opened one last night, with my lvl 14 doomed, and out poped a lvl 28 forest wight with a ranged spell per turn.

A monster with double the character's level, on a minor vault, seems a bit too much. As it is, the graves might as well not be in the game. After you open your first one and lose your character you won't make that mistake again.

Being lvl 25 and fighting a lvl 50 might be somewhat doable in some circumstances, but at lvl 14 fighting a 28 you have none of your synergies running yet, and you are facing an NPC that has all its abilities running and leveled.

[Final Master]

Vaults are designed to be challenging - and quiet a bit more powerful than the rest of the zone. That's why they have the popup warning. ;)

[cttw]

I know but they should be somewhat doable. It is not a half-floor-sized Dreadfell vault. It's a single square vault that pops out a single creature.

I think 14-28 is a very bad level combination, and this should be looked into. If the rule or limit is twice your level, it is very easy to fight a lvl 2 with a lvl 1, and even a lvl 50 with a lvl 25 is more or less doable. But 14-28 is literally to be caught with your pants down.

[HousePet]

They are quite doable, however at least wait until you have beaten the dungeon boss before attempting them.

The level difference is not always equal to your level, there is a small issue with many high level creatures are not allowed to spawn below a set level. eg. Greater Demons are never below level 30. The mob generator doesn't take this into account and can spawn some nasties for low level characters.

[ajfluffy]

Just had a lvl 30 patchwork troll spawn at level 11 with bill. Any chance this can be a put in as a bug lol. Still got the bugger but was quite tough!

[darkgod]

No, you are warned this will end your life, entering bills lair. It is not OOP protected by design

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Graves aren't that hard at all, even the 'being dumped into a grave-arena' which is the worst possible form of grave vaults, isn't immediately fatal. Granted, this is likely character specific. And yes, at old forest, a LOT of the higher undead will be generated with there minimum levels, which could be quite high. If you do these later, the undead are a lot more reasonable. The same is true of dreadfell vaults, which can spawn level 50 creatures, easily, which are far beyond you. This is both the regular vault level inflation, and inflation based upon a specific minimum level that may be far higher then normal enemies. It's the same thing that can cause orc pyromancers and orc cryomancers to appear in normal portions of the old forest, with no vault in play. Both will, of course, be level 30. And probably one-shotting you.

Out of depth tends to spawn deep enemies anywhere, it just sort of happens sometimes. Typically, the solution is to teleport away. (Been there and done that before with a rare dread bulwark/archer that popped out of a grave) Then, you can leave the level, and come back later when dealing with it was actually possible. Overall, graves shouldn't really be a problem, except on tempest peak. If you do that through Angolwen, there are often graves on the top, and you can't come back to do them later, so it's a do it now or forever hold your peace situation. That could be potentially fatal, as the top floor is quite tiny, giving almost no room to run.

[ajfluffy]

No, you are warned this will end your life, entering bills lair. It is not OOP protected by design

DG is truly a cruel god at times

[Mewtarthio]

Protip: You can easily tell the difference between graves with randelite undead and graves that lead to a sublevel filled with the monsters. The former type are scattered sparsely across the level, while the latter are bunched up in a single tight group.

[ajfluffy]

Yup and the special events ones seem to scale to the level of the zone(set when you first enter)

[Sirrocco]

Personally, I've enjoyed the challenge of taking them at first opportunity. It *is* doable, if you know what you're doing, and have escapes. If you dont' want to risk death like that and/or are not up to that level yet, leave them for later or avoid them.

[Hunter]

Just had a lvl 30 patchwork troll spawn at level 11 with bill. Any chance this can be a put in as a bug lol. Still got the bugger but was quite tough!

I don't recall ever finding a patchwork troll in Bill's lair, but a level 30 one in his lair would seem to be a good way for Bill to get himself killed. There's a reason why a good evil overlord never hires henchmen smarter and/or tougher than him.

With a good mage or wyrmic or the like, patchworks are fine. With most classes, though...god, I hate them, especially if there's more than one at a time.

[Faeryan]

Personally, I've enjoyed the challenge of taking them at first opportunity. It *is* doable, if you know what you're doing, and have escapes. If you dont' want to risk death like that and/or are not up to that level yet, leave them for later or avoid them.

Exactly! The thing I love the most about ToME and Roguelikes is the possibility for out of depth monsters and loot.
Still gotta learn not to try each opportunity to kill baddies but to actually flee the scene and come back later and stronger.

After having done few bear vaults in Trollmire at level 2-5 facing opposition up to level 24 I'm no longer afraid of the level differences. I know that bear won't pull a joker out of its sleeve.

[Crim, The Red Thunder]

Indeed, level means MUCH less then talent levels. If you were talking a RARE that was overleveled, that's a different kettle of fish entirely. Speaking from experience, hideously overlevleed talents can make such insane differences in damage it's not even funny. Agony for 900+, for instance.