Doomed and Chronomancers

[benli]

I took a look at some of the Doomed builds and I noticed that you (and others) seem to play the class like an offensive mage. As you say, Doomed is a bit weak for that. Try focusing on some defensive talents (and pumping your magic). Both magic trees make a world of difference (especially darkness). Creeping Darkness, Dark Tendrils and the shadows are great for distracting opponents and controlling the battlefield. I think working the battlefield in that way makes the game a lot more fun too. Dark Tendrils is a good boss killer too.

To comment on some of your general comments:
- Doomed uses a staff because they are mage-like in concept, but their weapon is more for show (and bonuses). I thought about a weapon tree (maybe slings?), but never really felt it would be useful. Reproach is practically a melee weapon. I could change this to a dagger and shield or something.
- I fixed some issues with targeting. Things should work a bit better in the next release. Darkness definitely doesn't go through walls anymore.
- Most of the generic trees are shared with Cursed and will probably be shared with other afflicted. They may seem a little odd for that reason. The problem with other generic trees in the game is that the few that don't require stamina or mana don't fit well with this class.
- Hate works a bit different for Doomed than Cursed. As you start using more powerful talents or use a lot of shadows, your hate will become a challenge to maintain.

I put together some changes for next release as well. Shadows should use less hate overall; I got rid of Cursed Ground because I think that it's annoying to use. A few other changes here and there.

[greycat]

I've tried a couple Doomed, and I haven't really figured out how to play them properly yet. I put my ideas on http://te4.org/wiki/tome4-charhints as I usually do once I've got anything even remotely useful.

What on earth are "tendrils"? Did I miss an entire talent tree somewhere, scrolling up and down too quickly?

Creeping darkness seemed mediocre at best, although I never really got far enough to invest in the enhancing talents. Maybe it gets good at some point, but it'd be hard for me to see how.

[eronarn]

- Doomed uses a staff because they are mage-like in concept, but their weapon is more for show (and bonuses). I thought about a weapon tree (maybe slings?), but never really felt it would be useful. Reproach is practically a melee weapon. I could change this to a dagger and shield or something.

A dagger could be appropriate, but a shield definitely isn't. What about giving them the ability to create some new class of held item, like how alchemists can make alchemist gems? Say - a skull totem, or an aura of dark energy, or a voodoo doll.

Crowd control on a Doomed doesn't seem to really work well. They have great defensive abilities, but their damage output is so low that they can't really leverage their options to shut down opponents. Other classes may 'only' get a few stuns or knockbacks, but they can do a lot more to take advantage of them.

[greycat]

Regardless of what is "appropriate", I certainly gave my Doomed a shield. Being an emo punching-bag with no real attack capability, and no spells that benefit from a staff, and then not upgrading your physical security, strikes me as particularly suboptimal.

My Summoners get shields, too.

[benli]

I suppose my play hints would be as follows:

1. Reproach is essential. I use it a lot more than any other talent and like to build it up early.
2. A couple points in Willful Strike is enough (though more is helpful). For melee, knock them back and Reproach them until dead. Remember WS does more damage the closer you are, but damage is low regardless.
3. I often put an early point in Shadows. They don't do a lot of damage, but are good for tying up the enemy. They keep you company too. Beware of how much Hate you lose to them (cost 1 to summon and they steal kills and feeding opportunities). Hate loss is one reason I rarely build this tree up, but I've made some changes to reduce that.4. Generally at level 4 I start to build up darkness. Every talent in that tree is a big help.
- Get Creeping Darkness to about 3 or 4 and its great defense. Block the sight of any ranged attacker and then take them out as they come to you. I changed CD to only creep from spots within sight of the targeted square. That will probably make it a lot more effective in tight areas.
- Dark Torrent is a pretty good beam for doing damage. It doesn't rival an archmage beam though.
- Dark Tendrils is probably my favorite talent aside from reproach. The tendrils chase after your target leaving a trail of creeping darkness behind. When they reach the target, they pin it inside the creeping dark for a few turns. It does better damage than Creeping Darkness and will block sight between you and your target as well. Great for bosses or tough foes. Good for hallways as well.
5. Creeping Darkness and all of the Punishments only attack foes, so they are safe to use near friendlies.
6. Madness makes the Punishments pretty helpful. It's Doomed's Gloom.
7. I put a lot of points in Feed so I can quickly build up a couple attacks when I run out of hate. I generally ignore the rest of the tree though. It's probably good when there are points to spare.
8. don't know a lot about Force of Will. It hasn't seemed important enough to build up. I may have to adjust it a bit. I intended it to be a cornerstone of Doomed's talents. Funny how things change.
9. I'd like to see Shadows work better. I wanted it to be an alternative to Darkness, but I don't know if I can get the balance right. I suspect this is a good tree for higher levels as the shadows can offer some decent defense if you've got a lot of points to spare.

[greycat]

Wow, that's actually helpful... just at a quick glance, not counting the talents I didn't know anything about at all, I already learned two very surprising things:

• Willful Strike's damage decreases if the monster's not next to you (wow, shitty!)
• You don't get XP from things killed by your Shadows (wow, shitty!)

Or at least that's what I assume "stealing kills" means.

[benli]

You get XP from shadows, you don't get hate. That means you lose the 0.8 hate (plus bonuses) if they kill something. They also kill a lot of weaker opponents before you can really feed off of them.

[Sirrocco]

Seems one thing you could do to make shadows more cornerstone is get rid of the hate-leeching - at least partially. If each kill by a shadow yielded .4 hate (or perhaps .0/.2/.4/.6/.8 depending on skill) per kill, it sounds like they'd be noticeably more viable as a strategy focus, and it doesn't seem like it would make them overpowered.

...Mind you, I've never played Doomed, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.