Viral Resistance

[Deon]

Here's a more "red" version of bomber:
And a spitter:

[yufra]

I love it Deon, keep them coming. Any idea when you will have a basic set of them finished so I can load them for my personal use?

[Deon]

Please clarify what is the full "basic set" required and I will offer it.

I can finish common zombie versions today. I plan to make a "zombified" overlay for female/male actors so you will just load it on top of their skin and under their clothes; thus they will be "zombies in clothes" (recent zombies).

Mature -> ... zombies can lose this "clothed" status because it took some time to evolve and they tore their clothes in pieces.

Infected may have different outfits, i.e. "leaper" can have "hunter's" or similar clothing to look close to L4D hunter which would make them recognizeable.

Which else infected (but bomber/spitter) do you need?

It would be fun to have witch-like zombies. Some rare infected which grew long claws so have basic hitpoints but higher speed and massive damage.

Also a way to "sprint" (with a cooldown as other TOME skills) would be cool.

[yufra]

Please clarify what is the full "basic set" required and I will offer it.

Good point. The basic set of for humans would be at least one type of male/female skin, eyes and hair (facial hair optional). Then there should be one type of male/female pants, shirts, shoes and the patient, doctor, nurse and security uniforms. That should ensure there are no naked sprites running around in-game.

I can finish common zombie versions today. I plan to make a "zombified" overlay for female/male actors so you will just load it on top of their skin and under their clothes; thus they will be "zombies in clothes" (recent zombies).

Mature -> ... zombies can lose this "clothed" status because it took some time to evolve and they tore their clothes in pieces.

I like the idea of the "zombified" overlay and think that will look really nice.

Infected may have different outfits, i.e. "leaper" can have "hunter's" or similar clothing to look close to L4D hunter which would make them recognizeable.

Haha, I just had the mental image of a hunter/leaper developing and the first thing it must do is run to the closest shopping mall and find a proper outfit. I agree, though, making the hunter recognizable in L4D really helped generate the "oh crap, a hunter!" feeling and if we can recapture that in VR I would be thrilled.

Also a way to "sprint" (with a cooldown as other TOME skills) would be cool.

I added a sustainable "sprint" talent to the game that increases movement speed but drains stamina, but currently only the Boxer starts with it. I had thought about making a walking/running mechanic for everyone and may still do that, not sure.

I do still need new infected ideas, and something based on the witch from L4D would work. Any other suggestions?

[Deon]

I would prefer to sit with a beer and paper and think about new infected ideas before I post it, so give me some time .

As for "leaper", it's not necessary to make him into some distinguishable outfit. Some rags worn in a specific way should work.

1) As for running/walking, I think it's essentual to make NPC fleeing mechanic.
Make a random stat like "bravery" which should affect either NPC runs or fights, and also either it runs when it gets a hit or fights to the death.

Security NPC should start with a high bravery (with deviations so there would be cowardly cops) while normals NPCs should have it quite low except for a few cases.

2) Human NPC shouldn't be too willing to die though. Any sane human would try to run when they see foamy mouthed walking dead. It would be much more thrilling if people were bitten and hid around town, turning into zombies and spreading disease and a feeling of uncertainity, rather than pile up on zombies and die in funny ways.

3) New generated actors in areas which are "infested" (I don't think you plan to simulate all levels when you're away, do you?) should get a chance to start "bitten" if they are respawned alone, and some passive skill like "medic" which normally increases healing effects of pills/aids/health items should allow you to see either they are diseased or not when you stand next to them (not 100%, with a chance, for additional drama).

4) Based on the fact that you see (or suspect) an infected man, you should have a choice to shoot him. It should trigger hostility (or fleeing) on NPCs which see it (based on their "ignorance" and "bravery" stat). So far as I see it, those people with high ignorance should not react on you killing someone ("come on, he would die anyway and eat us") while those who do not pass an ignorance "check" each time you attack a civillian should try to cooperate with him (bravery) or flee (failed bravery check).

5) That's being said, it would be nice to have a "sanity" stat for each character which slowly depletes as you see normal people dying (and it should deplete twice or thrice faster if YOU decide to kill an NPC). Other NPC should go "stark raving mad" when their sanity reaches 0 while player effects of being insane may be considered "game over". It would add another parameter to care about.

There should be some items which restore sanity (mp3 player, good book, alcohol) which may be used once and have some time to use. Obviously the fastest way to restore sanity would be to drink alcohol but it would lower some of your stats and could have an addiction effect. Book reading would be slowest and most dangerous. Other skills like "meditation" could allow you to restore sanity without objects, with time.

Also there could be special infected which decrease your sanity with their special attacks (some early-midgame infected "howler" which could howl and decrease your sanity by this action, and also could make NPCs with failed bravery checks to flee; or late-game "telepath" zombie which would hit your sanity when it pays its attention to you). Oh god, I promised no new "special infected" ideas but they already swarm my head :/.

6) I would prefer to have more "rolls" and "checks" than pure values, i.e. in case of bravery and ignorance checks. It would add some random and Fun factor (like, a cowardly person could make a critical success roll and make some brave action, or otherwise a brave man could shit his pants).

I have much more ideas, these are just some core ones which could improve the gameplay imho. Simply having Health and Infection is fine but not satisfying enough for me .

[Deon]

Other ideas totally depend if you have "location simulation" if you're away or not.

If yes, then it should be fine to have zombies running around town and eating people. If not, every big location could have an "infection" counter (0 to 100). It would be considered as ( (% of zombies) + (% of bitten people)/2 ). Any zombie escaping a location to another location would decrease it accordingly and increase the new location counter. A bitten person would do the same but only by 1/2*% accordingly. Then next time you enter the area the counter would serve as a % of people who are zombies or "infected". There're better realisations, that's just one idea.

[yufra]

1) As for running/walking, I think it's essentual to make NPC fleeing mechanic.
Make a random stat like "bravery" which should affect either NPC runs or fights, and also either it runs when it gets a hit or fights to the death.

Security NPC should start with a high bravery (with deviations so there would be cowardly cops) while normals NPCs should have it quite low except for a few cases.

2) Human NPC shouldn't be too willing to die though. Any sane human would try to run when they see foamy mouthed walking dead. It would be much more thrilling if people were bitten and hid around town, turning into zombies and spreading disease and a feeling of uncertainity, rather than pile up on zombies and die in funny ways.

The corollary to bravery is wimpiness, and NPCs already flee if their health drops below a certain percentage. I will add the randomness element to it, though. Variability helps keep you on your toes.

3) New generated actors in areas which are "infested" (I don't think you plan to simulate all levels when you're away, do you?) should get a chance to start "bitten" if they are respawned alone, and some passive skill like "medic" which normally increases healing effects of pills/aids/health items should allow you to see either they are diseased or not when you stand next to them (not 100%, with a chance, for additional drama).

I will take the fact that you keep suggesting mechanics already in or planned as a sign that I am on the right track. Currently the tooltip shows the exact quantitative viral load of each actor, but I plan on making this vague and a passive talent that increases the accuracy with which the viral load can be determined. I haven't decided if I will also make the player's viral load vague, any thoughts on that?

4) Based on the fact that you see (or suspect) an infected man, you should have a choice to shoot him. It should trigger hostility (or fleeing) on NPCs which see it (based on their "ignorance" and "bravery" stat). So far as I see it, those people with high ignorance should not react on you killing someone ("come on, he would die anyway and eat us") while those who do not pass an ignorance "check" each time you attack a civillian should try to cooperate with him (bravery) or flee (failed bravery check).

I hadn't considered this, but that could definitely work. Hmm...

5) That's being said, it would be nice to have a "sanity" stat for each character which slowly depletes as you see normal people dying (and it should deplete twice or thrice faster if YOU decide to kill an NPC). Other NPC should go "stark raving mad" when their sanity reaches 0 while player effects of being insane may be considered "game over". It would add another parameter to care about.

There should be some items which restore sanity (mp3 player, good book, alcohol) which may be used once and have some time to use. Obviously the fastest way to restore sanity would be to drink alcohol but it would lower some of your stats and could have an addiction effect. Book reading would be slowest and most dangerous. Other skills like "meditation" could allow you to restore sanity without objects, with time.

Also there could be special infected which decrease your sanity with their special attacks (some early-midgame infected "howler" which could howl and decrease your sanity by this action, and also could make NPCs with failed bravery checks to flee; or late-game "telepath" zombie which would hit your sanity when it pays its attention to you). Oh god, I promised no new "special infected" ideas but they already swarm my head :/.

Sanity, I like it! All of your suggestions on how to increase or decrease sanity sound good. The trick is to make the mechanics interesting and not another resource that the player must manage. For NPCs how about the lower the sanity is the higher chance they have in targeting friends as well as foes, and at not fleeing even if they fail they bravery/wimpiness check? The player effects, although trickier to code, could be to falsify the information given to the player. For example, people that are virus-free appear ready to mutate, and maybe even APPEAR to mutate to the player. The player (the one at the computer, not the one in the computer) will probably realize the mistake after a round or two when the zombie attacks do not do viral damage, but at that point it may be too late since they are already in combat with the NPC and people would have just seen you attack another person. I think that insanity would have to be another hidden variable so that the player (at the computer again) does not abuse the mechanic and have their "@" not act in an insane way. Thoughts?

6) I would prefer to have more "rolls" and "checks" than pure values, i.e. in case of bravery and ignorance checks. It would add some random and Fun factor (like, a cowardly person could make a critical success roll and make some brave action, or otherwise a brave man could shit his pants).

I have much more ideas, these are just some core ones which could improve the gameplay imho. Simply having Health and Infection is fine but not satisfying enough for me .

I also prefer rolls and checks, so no need to convince me there. In regards to the gameplay I do want to increase the complexity, but at the same time get the initial story/setting in place so I can make a proper release of the game. The sanity resource will probably make it in the game pretty soon since it sounds like a lot of fun to code and play.

In regards to location, I haven't really thought a lot about different areas and traveling between them. That will be in later releases I think.

[Deon]

I haven't decided if I will also make the player's viral load vague, any thoughts on that?

Yeah, the current "2 more points to die" is too metagamey for me. You should have a text display instead, from "you have slight symptoms of infection" to "you can barely focus your thoughts", something like that. It would add another choice whether to use antivirus now or wait a bit more and risk. A medic skill showing more correct info should work here too.

For NPCs how about the lower the sanity is the higher chance they have in targeting friends as well as foes, and at not fleeing even if they fail they bravery/wimpiness check?

It makes a perfect sense to me.

I think that insanity would have to be another hidden variable so that the player (at the computer again) does not abuse the mechanic and have their "@" not act in an insane way. Thoughts?

The idea about suspecting others is awesome. Also I totally agree about no direct numbers here. You should just start to get messages like "you look around nervously" and "your hands shake", something like that, and get more obvious messages and more often to be able to notice that there's something wrong with you, but no direct numbers.

In regards to location, I haven't really thought a lot about different areas and traveling between them. That will be in later releases I think.

Yeah, I just learned a hard way that sometimes planning ahead is good for your code, rather than backtracking, but I am sure you know it better .

[yufra]

In regards to location, I haven't really thought a lot about different areas and traveling between them. That will be in later releases I think.

Yeah, I just learned a hard way that sometimes planning ahead is good for your code, rather than backtracking, but I am sure you know it better .

True. Well I see two obvious ways to handle large maps. The first is to have an overland travel map and you can then enter zones (think ToME and Fallout). The second is to have zones intersect at borders with direct travel between them (think Half-life, Baldur's Gate... travel between ToME levels within a zone for that matter). I have not given much thought to the merits of either system, but in both cases the game will not simulate the actors in other zones than the present one. There is already support in ToME for "decaying" a zone/level upon entering it, so control for re-popping an area is available. So when I say I have not given thought to how to implement the larger world I mean that I think the support is already there for the ways that have occurred to me, and there isn't anything that has to be coded for it at this point. Anyone with experience (especially DG) can please disabuse me of this notion.

In other news, I have added basic support for climbable terrain into VR. You can now jump over a desk to escape the lumbering zombies, but beware because they can follow!

[Deon]

I wanted to reply to that but forgot:

NPCs already flee if their health drops below a certain percentage

The idea was that many "normal" people wouldn't fight at all. I can't imagine a teenager or a random mom to rush ahead and jump on a horde of zombies. Only trained units (security, doctors, nurses in original hospital) or brave ones (as I said random people, think of "vigilante" type) should try to do it.

About vigilante, random rare "heroes" which watched a lot of zombie movies and thus have all needed (a fire axe, an armor and a set of bandages on them) should be encountered from time to time, maybe even hiding in a store or their flat. Just a suggestion .


A Baldur's Gate II- type travel (haha, I thought about the same even before you told it, it means that we think in the same direction) would be nice. Like that city "Athkatla", you could travel between districts and get random encounters on streets while you do it.

In other news, I have added basic support for climbable terrain into VR. You can now jump over a desk to escape the lumbering zombies, but beware because they can follow!

Great idea. I think that it should depend on a type of zombie if it can just or not. For example "bombers", some "long time zombies" (shambling or rotten), legless zombies (the type which would hide under a car or in a dark room) and probably some more exceptions should attack the desk to pass.

[Deon]

What about zombie dogs?

[yufra]

Zombie dogs? Hehe, well maybe in the extended game but probably not in the hospital prologue. I guess there could be guard dogs on the base, but it is a bit of a stretch. It looks nice, though (well gruesome but isn't that the point).

[Deon]

Dogs work well as "less tough but faster than average" type of enemy. And I was not talking about the hospital, it would make not a lot of sense, but during the "city roam" there could be random zombie dogs, right?

[yufra]

There absolutely should be animals in the expanded game. I am not sure if the animals should be zombie varieties or simply wild animals, though. I do not think it is a stretch to suggest the virus (or others like it) start spreading to other species. For that reason and that wild animals generally avoid people it would probably make the game more interesting to have zombie animals but I am not committing myself to that just yet.

By the way, I put your bomber and spitter sprites into the game. They look even better in-game.

[Deon]

It kinda died back then, in the previous year... Did you manage to work on it more, or did you abandon it?