MoRE--A ToME expansion

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Hmm, I haven't had the chance to try that with the release version, but it was working fine on an earlier version. Once I get 0.0.3 ready, I'll check it out before release.

Not that the unlocks won't go to the vault. It will be for your local profile only.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Great job with the additions, they certainly add variety to the game. Now for some comments (I haven't played them much, mostly just looking it over, so take it with a grain of salt):

Goblins
Bleeding Strike has range of 0.
I couldn't get any of their activated talents to work, they would try to index local "t" and fail.

I'll check that out. Sounds like a simple fix.

Lich
Call of the Lich doesn't seem to be working, others are good, and very thematic.

Call of the Lich was one of those game breaking bugs I mentioned. It's already fixed for 0.0.3.

Charlatan
Break Free: Did you change Time Prison to not skip time? If not then you cannot activate it while imprisoned.
As others have said, it needs more documentation.

Eek, that is a problem. Break Free probably needs to be changed or replaced anyway.

Ranger
No out of combat way to regain Equilibrium makes them unique from other Wilders, not sure if this was intended or not.
Hit and Run: Range info and description are inconsistent
12/15 trees unlocked is more than any other class. For example Fighters (5/13), Arcane Blades (8/13), and Archmages (9/16 with unlocks), to name the classes with the next to most trees all have less. Maybe Dual Wielding/Archer/Slinger/Rogue/Wilder is too broad of a hybrid to give that many distinct talent trees for each aspect.
Wild Gift/Hunting is extremely powerful, Fast shot is basically multishot, but twice the damage and half the cooldown, and reducing shot gets to be like piercing arrow, but more powerful, recovering equilibrium, less cost, and a chance to blind.
Lethality changes dagger combat significantly with a one point investment. I would consider removing the tree, as it is currently not practical for bow rangers to use at all.

I had some similar ideas as well. Goblinz did give me permission to try to rebalance the class, although I'll let him take first stab at it if he likes.

Transmutation
Looks good once I code dove to find information on it, Alchemists need more class trees to diversify.

Arcane Power
Effect switching could have some odd effects, such as gaining Shell Shield, or worse, Borrowed Time.
I didn't look too closely at the last talent, but if it makes the damage be 80% unaffected, and 20% arcane (for example) it would double the effectiveness of "10% chance to use talent on hit (spell)" artifacts, as well as resource leech. The same strategies that work for that would also work to leverage the effect switching.

I'll let Goblinz decide on AP. Glad you like Transmutation.

Throwing Daggers
Not breaking stealth makes them very powerful, especially combined with elemental daggers that don't suffer the damage penalties to the same extent. Also, ranged attacks for melee classes are very good utility against archers and the like.

The skill doesn't use equipped daggers. It's a whole separate thing. At lower levels at least, it seems to be quite balanced, still attracting a fair amount of attention while also doing lesser damage, but quite useful if you're careful. There's a flaw in my code that I'm trying to fix though.

[hamrkveldulfr]

Before i complain I want to say great job! I was very excited for this and it does not disappoint. I was even inspired to try my hand at making a class, with luck you'll have a few things from me in the not to distant future to look over.
That being said, i have run into a problem with my goblin charlatan.
every time concealed daggers misses errors throw up on my screen, and death is startlingly real... My goblin falls and that is that. no eidilon plane, or a popup 'recreate or return to main menu'

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

This release fixes several bugs. Main changes.

* Descriptions of many Charlatan skills improved
* Charlatan starting trees/skills altered
* Call of the Lich bug triggering after enemies killed fixed
* Errors being triggers after Throwing Dagger skills are used on empty tiles or untargetable enemies fixed.

http://freedomforceforever.com/more0-0-3.zip

Install instructions as normal. If you already have a previous version of MoRE installed, use the updatemore batch file if you system can do patch files. Use the moreinstall batch file if you have not downloaded an earlier version. If your computer can't use batch files, copy and rename the tome module folder to more of you don't have a more folder, then dump the contents of the moreinstaller folder into the more one.

[Sradac]

I found the problem with the unlocks.

It seems they still work just fine, however, you dont get the message that pops up telling you that you unlocked something new. I created a completely new profile to test and unlocked poisons, its the same. Unlock works but didnt get the unlock message, just the achievement.

[Sradac]

and arcane power is super broke.

any time I make an archmage I get a LUA error with a bunch of lines referncing arcane power. Any time I try to hit "G" to spend points, the LUA error come back and I can never level up.

[Sradac]

and it breaks any startup scripts.
mages in angolwen never get prompted to enter the expanse, and undead never get the dialog with the necro, so the circle is never broken, so you are stuck inside.

if you want, I have a save game in that situation to check it out.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I skimped on testing there, but thought I had it right. Sounds like an error in the descriptions. I'll look into it and fix it for the next version.

[Flare]

Here are my thoughts on what I've played so far. I haven't unlocked mages or the alchemy tree yet, so I can't express an opinion on those.

Charlatan
The Charlatan class is an interesting concept that could turn into a real trickster-ish class, but right now it has one major flaw: Concealed Daggers. The move doesn't break stealth, doesn't use stamina, and Shadowstrike makes it do decent damage, all at range 5. In essence, it is an invisible cannon available from level 1. While it might still be a decent class-defining move, it overshadows the rest of the class. To fix it, I'd say let up on the damage aspect, but focus more on inflicting status effects. That would create a strategy of weaken -> backstab -> vanish, which is more in keeping with the trickster aspect.

Break Free and Pain both cause lua errors when used. Quicker Than The Eye should be sustained.

Moves like Drop Weapon and Dull Wits should last a bit longer at level 1, since stunning for 1 turn is pretty pointless. Perhaps instead of scaling from 1-9 turns, they should scale from 5-9 turns.

Mesmerize is a great setup move which should be explored a bit more. What about charming moves, as an advanced tree? A Charlatan seems like a good class to go around tricking one enemy into attacking another.

Ranger
Mechanically, recharging in melee is a great idea which you've pulled off well. Philosophically, I have to wonder about a person who becomes closer to nature by stabbing it in the face, but there are many paths to enlightenment and sometimes the zen buddhist really does have to kill the buddha to achieve inner peace.

The Wrath tree is great. I haven't used some of the abilities yet, but all four look useful and imaginative. The only fault I can find is a minor balancing issue in Vine Growth: pinning everything for 16 turns is a bit too much.

Stalking: Garrote is a nice, friendly mage killer, worthy of any stealth build. Hit and Run should a fun technique, especially on melee/archer hybrid builds. Reapear is a typo of either "Reaper", "Reappear", or "Real Pear", but none of them describe this move. "Switch Place" describes this move, but that name is taken by a move almost exactly like this one. Nature's Compliance is also not very descriptive, but you can't go wrong with another mobility skill. All in all, three good moves out of four isn't too bad.

Now, I'm sorry, but the entire Hunting tree is boring. It's got a multishot ability, but rangers can get the real Multishot. It's got a piercing/blinding/recharging shot, but rangers can get both Piercing Shot and Eye Shot. (Recharging equilibrium is still good, even if it does bring up that meditative-face-stabbing thing again). Split Shot is basically a point blank Scatter Shot, but it costs more, and doesn't hit as much. Snake Shot is a recolored Chain Lightning. Out of the whole tree, the best idea is to change your arrows' damage type, and that's not enough to justify making a separate set of talents. There's room here for a set of nature-based archery talents, but this isn't it. (Random idea - maybe Snake Shot could fire a poisonous shot and then summon a snake when the arrow hits, or something.)

Goblins
You have an odd blend blend going on here between Tolkien's faceless stormtrooper goblins and the classical hole-dwelling pranksters. And it works. Most people will probably focus on the prankster aspect, but anyone playing a goblin warrior can find something useful here. All in all, an interesting class.

Liches
A natural vim-using Race of the Lich? Awesome of the Lich! I'm not too Sure of the Lich also using mana, but that's not a big Problem of the Lich. The Descriptions of the Lich found in the game do mention mages dipping into some sort of dark Magic of the Lich, so there is some Merit of the Lich using mana. People of the Lich have been improvising using skeletons, but ToME of the Lich should have a more magic-based undead race. The Lich of the Lich is something that we've needed, of the Lich. Though the talent names might need some work.

... of the Lich.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Here are my thoughts on what I've played so far. I haven't unlocked mages or the alchemy tree yet, so I can't express an opinion on those.

Charlatan
The Charlatan class is an interesting concept that could turn into a real trickster-ish class, but right now it has one major flaw: Concealed Daggers. The move doesn't break stealth, doesn't use stamina, and Shadowstrike makes it do decent damage, all at range 5. In essence, it is an invisible cannon available from level 1. While it might still be a decent class-defining move, it overshadows the rest of the class. To fix it, I'd say let up on the damage aspect, but focus more on inflicting status effects. That would create a strategy of weaken -> backstab -> vanish, which is more in keeping with the trickster aspect.

I'm going for a very low damage tactically useful skill, so I'll try lowering the damage a bit. I also considering giving it a small stamina cost say 1-3. Thoughts?

Break Free and Pain both cause lua errors when used. Quicker Than The Eye should be sustained.

Yikes! I keep breaking things. Break Free may need to be replaced anyway. I'll consider your suggestion for Quicker Than the Eye.

Moves like Drop Weapon and Dull Wits should last a bit longer at level 1, since stunning for 1 turn is pretty pointless. Perhaps instead of scaling from 1-9 turns, they should scale from 5-9 turns.

You're right, 1 turn is mostly useless. I can increase that a bit.

Mesmerize is a great setup move which should be explored a bit more. What about charming moves, as an advanced tree? A Charlatan seems like a good class to go around tricking one enemy into attacking another.

I actually do want some ideas for other tree. I'll think on that a bit. Glad you like the Mesmerize mechanic. I wanted something unique to the Charlatan and this seems like a good mechanic to give them.

The rest of these are Goblinz contributions with the exception of the names given to the Lich skills. I've already pointed him to this thread.

[Goblinz]

Flare all of your criticism is well placed. I may redo the hunting tree to be more nature themed. so any ideas are welcome. ( I may do the snake summon for snake shot)

[Flare]

I'm going for a very low damage tactically useful skill, so I'll try lowering the damage a bit. I also considering giving it a small stamina cost say 1-3. Thoughts?

That could work. You could still take down enemies with it, but it would be as costly and as risky as just fighting the enemy in more traditional ways. Another way to handle it would be to give it a cooldown and decent stamina cost. Either way, it should probably be unaffected by Shadowstrike.

Hm, charm moves...
- Ventriloquism: Active. Mimic the voices and sounds of creatures in the room, causing them to attack each other. When used, each creature in the target area will make one attack on a nearby creature.
- Charm: Active. Hypnotize a creature into doing your bidding for a while. The target creature becomes your ally for x turns, and you can give it orders. This can only be used on a mesmerized creature. (This is similar to Dominate Mind.)

I'll try to come up with another nature-archery move later.

[aberk]

Will I still be able to play my .02 Ranger if I upgrade to .03?

By the way, great game.

While I'm here, I thought that I would give my thoughts on the ranger class. If I get the time, I might even code this class. My two cents is that we completely redesign this class. The concept that I have in mind is an equilibrium based class with unique trees for strength, willpower, dexterity, and cunning similar to the brawler. The class would also have access to combat techniques, combat veteran, archery-bows, archery-slings, stealth, survival, and of course generic combat. Each ranger would focus on one of the unique class trees and a combination of the others. My thinking is that ranger is an umbrella class that includes any warrior empowered by nature.

I've also noticed that some of the really well-liked classes (i.e. temporal warden and brawler) have unique mechanics that separate them from other classes. With ranger, I am thinking that most of the talents should be passive or activate without the ranger's control. Basically, nature has picked these people to be its champions, but is not susceptible to control like magic.

Below please find my thoughts for the class specific trees. Please keep in mind that I am much better at thinking of concepts than working with game balance.

Nature's Weapons (Class) (Strength Tree)

Combust (Random with Activation) Equilibrium cost=5 Cooldown upon activation=5
Description: Nature sometimes lends cleansing flames to your weapons. These flames will set 1-4 enemies on fire.
Each weapon strike has a (20, 30, 40, 50, 70)% chance of setting 1-4 adjacent targets on fire, doing (5, 10, 15, 20, 25) damage for (3, 5, 8, 10, 15) turns

Natural Instincts (Random with Activation) Equilibrium cost=5 Cooldown upon activation=10
Description: All animals become more dangerous when backed into a corner. You will gain attack speed based on the number of enemies you are facing. The speed scales with your strength.
In combat, you have a (20+(number of visible enemies)*5)% chance to gain additional attack speed for 5 turns. The amount of speed scales with your strength.

Infusion Augmentation (Passive)
Description: Your attunement with nature allows you to bring out its full strength in any weapon gifted by its touch. Increases the elemental damage of weapons infused by nature.
If your weapon is infused by nature, that damage will increase by (5, 8, 10, 12, 20)%.

Weapon Storm (Passive)
Description: Any weapon you hold crackles with the energy of the storms. Adds cold or lightning to each hit.
Adds (5, 10, 15, 20, 25) damage to each weapon strike. Damage is either cold (50%) or lighting (50%).

Archery - Nature (Class) (Dexterity Tree)

Spore Arrow (Random with Activation) Equilibrium cost=5 Cooldown upon activation=5
Description: Your arrow has a chance to carry spores that confuse their target. The duration scales with your dexterity.
Each arrow strike has a (20, 30, 40, 50, 70)% of confusing your target. The duration scales with your dexterity.

Mold Arrow (Random with Activation) Equilibrium cost=15 Cooldown upon activation=15
Description: Your arrow has a chance to carry spores that cause mold to grow inside your target, poisoning it for a certian amount of time. At level 5, the target will explode in a poison burst if it has less than 20% of its hit points.
Each arrow strike has a (20, 30, 40, 50, 70)% of poisoning your target for (3, 5, 8, 10, 15) turns. If the target's hitpoints drop below 20%, it will explode in a poison burst of (2, 3, 4, 5, 7) radius doing (10, 20, 30, 40, 50) damage.

Serpent Arrow (Random with Activation) Equilibrium cost=20 Cooldown upon activation=15
Description: Your arrow has a chance of turning into a snake for a short time upon hitting its target. The type of snake depends on your level.
Each arrow strike has a (20, 30, 40, 50, 70)% of turning into a snake upon hit. I need help determining the type of snake that appears. Snake will remain for (5, 8, 10, 12, 15) turns.

Storm Arrow (Random with Activation) Equilibrium cost=35 Cooldown upon activation=25
Description: Your arrow has a chance of causing a storm centered on its point of impact. The storm will do half cold and half lighting damage.
Each arrow strike has a (20, 30, 40, 50, 70)% of causing a storm centered upon its impact point. The storm will last (5, 8, 10, 12, 15) turns and damage will scale with dexterity.

Beastial Traits (Class) (Willpower Tree) Inspiration for two of these talents comes from the in game lore "What is Magic"
Each talent is sustainable at zero equilibrium cost, but the character can only activate two at a time.

Strength of the Bear
Description: Your body gains the physical power of a bear. At level 5, their is a small chance that you will stun your target. Your physical power scales with your willpower.
Increases physical damage. Increase scales with willpower. At level 5, their is a 20% chance to stun the target.

Speed of the Wolf
Description: You can run like the wolf, gaining movement speed.
You gain (5, 8, 10, 15, 20)% additional movement speed.

Caripice
Description: Your skin becomes hard like an ant, granting you additional armor and physical resistance.
You gain (2, 5, 8, 10, 20) armor points and (5, 8, 10, 15, 20)% physical resistance.

Eagle Eye
Description: You can see farther, increasing the range of your physical projectiles and your chance of critical hits. At level 5, you can see invisible creatures.
Extends your projectile range by (2, 3, 4, 5, 6) and increases your critical hit chance with both melee and projectile weapons by (2, 5, 8, 10, 15)%. Grants see invisible at level 5.

Bond with Nature (Generic) (Willpower)

Balance Weapon: Same as current ranger skill except based on willpower instead of dexterity.

Meditation: Same as current Wilder skill.

Nature's Balance: Same as current Wilder skill.

Nature's Energy: Same as current ranger skill.

Predator's Instincts (Class) (Cunning Tree)

Pounce (Passive)
Description: Like a predator, you know how to hit your prey when it is not watching. Each hit you make with stealth engaged will be more accurate. At level 5, you gain an increased critical hit chance.
Increases your combat accuracy by (5, 8, 10, 15, 20) when attacking while stealthed. At level 5, character gets +15% critical hit chance.

Weaken (Passive)
Description: Every predator knows that it is good to weaken your prey before killing it. Each hit you make with stealth engaged will cause the target to bleed and decrese its movement speed.
Causes enemy to bleed for (3, 5, 8, 10, 15) turns and lose (5, 8, 10, 15, 20)% movement speed when hit by a stealth attack.

Decoy Spore (Random with Activation) Equilibrium cost=15 Cooldown upon activation=15
Description: It is always nice when the prey kill themselves for you. This attack plants a spore on the target causing all other hostile creatures withen a certian radius to attack it.
Not sure if this is codable. Each stealth strike has a (5, 8, 10, 20, 40)% chance of making all hostile creatures within a (2, 3, 4, 5, 7) radius attack target for 5 turns.

Stalk Prey (Passive)
Description: Predators take their time to make their attacks count. Your critical hit chance will increase the longer your target remains in line of sight as long as you are in stealth.
Increases critical hit chance by (1, 3, 5, 7, 12)% for each turn that target is in line of sight and character is stealthed up to a maximum of (10, 15, 20, 25, 30)%.

The character's skill trees will look like this at level one:

Generic Combat (Unlocked)
Nature's Weapons (Unlocked) with one point in Combust
Combat Techniques (Unlocked)
Combat Veteran (Locked)
Archery - Bows (Unlocked)
Archery - Slings (Unlocked)
Archery - Nature (Unlocked)
Beastial Traits (Unlocked) with one point in Strength of the Bear
Bond with Nature (Unlocked)
Stealth (Unlocked)
Survival (Locked)
Predator's Instincts (Unlocked)

I am not concerned about the number of unlocked trees because, like the archmage, the ranger only has so many skill points to go around. This configuration creates a lot of design options but forces the character to focus on a couple of trees.

Goblinz ranger class is fun and i am playing it right now. He also had the commitment to actually code it, which is far more difficult than what i just did. I would just like to know what everyone thinks of this conception.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

Will I still be able to play my .02 Ranger if I upgrade to .03?

Yes, there will be no difficulty doing so. In fact, a lot of bugs you're probably experiencing will go poof.

By the way, great game.

While I'm here, I thought that I would give my thoughts on the ranger class.

That's quite a mish-mash of ideas you have there. In fact, many of them are similar to the proposed Death Wilder class. Some are similar to another class being worked on. While I agree some rebalancing is needed, you class will have to be named something else if you want it to co-exist. Also, a class really needs to be more focused than just anything nature. If you throw too many different things in there, it becomes unfocused and messy. Still if you do manage to get something started, let me know. Also the irc channel is a great place to bounce ideas off people.

[aberk]

Ok, I upgraded to .3 and cannot load my .2 character. How do i fix this problem?